fdcp_elmo
Rules over Sesamestreet
+5|6972|The Netherlands

FeloniousMonk wrote:

fdcp_elmo wrote:

I think this problem is about the rumor that there are secret CIA prisons in europe where CIA agents torture terrorist suspects.
Rice said the US don't torture suspects however she didn't mention that the secret CIA prisons don't exist.
It would be very rude indeed when even the european leaders dont know anything about the existence of these prisons.
but untill now it still remains a rumour
See, the torture thing is utter nonesense. The US doesn't torture suspects and prisoners, but not because it's illegal. That certainly helps avoid abuses but the primary reason that torture isn't performed by CIA officers is because TORTURE DOES NOT WORK. No interrogator worth his salt would waste his time with torture because not only does it take a lot longer to get information from someone who has undoubtedly been trained to withstand those techniques but the plain and simple truth is that torture will more often than not result in false information.

A good interrogator knows that the best way to get reliable information is to get the suspect to trust you and to use his own conscience against him.
and that is why Bush made a new law against torture. and I dont know who but some minister wanted a exeption for CIA agents.
at least this is what I saw in the papers and on the news.

but indeed torture never get's truth out of people. they confess because they don't want more pain. It has been proved that way since the medieval ages when torture was a normal way to get the suspect say the "truth"
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7058|Cologne, Germany

well, I don't know wether there is a conflict between the US and Europe at all. Diplomatic Tensions over the CIA prisoner issue maybe, but a CONFLICT ? I doubt it.

Every media has its agenda. Try to keep an open mind and get information from as many different sources as possible. Don't believe everything they say.

Personally, my ties to US citizens have grown more intense since serving as a mod on these forums, and I have made some new fridends. I intend to keep it that way.

Do what you can on the level you are on, I say.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7037
it's easy to rationalise dislike or even hatred of foreigners/citizens of rival nations as a group. things like 'french people smell' or 'americans are arrogant and stupid' are always descriptive of the group. it's harder to do this on an individual basis, when we can clearly see the humanity and similarity of the other person we're talking to.

nations compete, individuals make friends.
Emetchar
Member
+0|6929
First you gotta realize that the leprechaun (Bill O'Reilly) is a pundit (pundits are people who try their best to feed their opinions directly from their mouth to your subconcious, bypassing rational thought). I dislike pundits. So should you.

Basically a bunch of the "opinionated" right-wing men in the media dislike France (and I suspect europe in general) for standing up to Bush on this war issue.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7061|Bryan/College Station, TX
I am going to repost a reply I did in another thread here:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pid=76006#p76006

As I believe it already states my opinions on mainstream media at least in the US.

The news media in the mainstream is no longer responsible for reporting the news. Instead they are responsible to get ratings first and reporting the news second. Too often you will find that a news story is covered with such a horrific slant that ceases to be news and instead becomes a bias editorial supporting the network's viewpoints on politics and the world. News stories are edited, cut, slewed and then reformed into something kind of opinionated crap that with the exceptions of a few seconds here and there is not the news and is more fiction than not.

It is one of my greatest disappointments that the American public, and other countries as well, have such bias media to inform them of happenings locally, regionally, nationally and globally. The media is aimed at a population that can't be bothered to research anything on their own and who take what is said in the news pretty much as gospel. As an American I can only truely comment on the American viewing public and that TV in general is aimed at a 6 grade learning level. This is pathetic in my eyes and shows the ignorance of not only the population but also the networks. Instead of raising the bar they continue to drop it to meet the standards of the population with the lowest education. Even newspapers are going towards this route and though they may seem to be less bias they are the first to truely claim the bias flag in news reporting. Any media agency has it's own political agenda based upon those that run the agency. FOX shows a very much right wing coverage of the news while CNN shows a slightly left wing coverage though in my opinion more to the middle than FOX. Each network covers things in their own light and severly edits the facts to give the impression of what they want the viewers to think.

Truth be told the rating system was the largest downfall to public media and TV networks. If ratings were not an issue and did not exist then the sole factor in which to gain public support for your network would be quality and detailed reporting. But I must also say that the amount of information that is generated by the media these days is much more than the typical human can process. Take for example the NSA. They gather more information in a single day than any one human could possibly digest. This information is then sifted through and weeded out and then boiled down again into a simple summary report which then someone, in a particular field, reads. They then summarize their field even more and genearte a report which goes to their superiors. It is this very genearlized and edited version of raw information that leaders make their decisions on. Opinionated and edited facts that opinionated decisions are made from.

For me I just want the facts. Give me the facts and remove all the fluff. The bullet points if you will. But if I want to know more about the issue then at that time give me access to the details behind the bullet points. Allow me to expand my knowledge in a way that I am comfortable with. But do not hide news from me. Do not spin the crap out of fact to generate some sort of politically minded and skewed opinion.

I watch CNN for the genearl overview. I do not formulate an opinon based upon CNN. I then take the general events and do my own further research on the internet. From many sources on the internet, so I can compare and contrast facts, I then formulate my own opinion on the matter. If every citizen did something similar to this we would then have an somewhat intelligent and informed socieity and not one that is mindless led by the neck to the news media slaughter.
Cheers.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
BaulRag
Member
+0|6951|USA
i'm sure this has been stated in some form before, but:
a) "News" programs are an attempt to gain viewership, which in turn attracts advertising revenue.
a viewer has to be very cautious, taking into consideration possible motives for these reports, and then applying common sense to discern the truth. this makes news quite subjective.
Quite a dilemma.
Cable news was once viable and unbiased, as subscribers paid for cable, which promised no commercials. of course now we pay for multiple channels that do nothing but sell crap all day.  Satellite radio makes the same promise, but i'm sure they too will slowly start selling advertising. the execs can't resist the money.

b) France sucks.

Last edited by BaulRag (2005-12-20 03:26:50)

fdcp_elmo
Rules over Sesamestreet
+5|6972|The Netherlands

BaulRag wrote:

b) France sucks.
lol i agree

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