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Poll

Who was responsible for the death of Jesus?

The Romans15%15% - 24
The Jews25%25% - 40
Himself16%16% - 26
Other12%12% - 20
Go Fuck Yourself29%29% - 47
Total: 157
2006-06-25 11:25:08
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6878

Well, the Romans were the ones who stuck him on the cross, so directly, they did. However, the Jews were the ones that told Pilate (or however you spell it) to kill him, so I suppose, they caused his death.
EDIT: Oh and why according to the title, did Jesus live for 3 years? Surely that doesn't make much sence. And when did Jesus try to overthrow a government. To the best of my knowledge, he went around teaching people about God, and performing miracles.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2006-06-25 11:26:52)

2006-06-25 14:52:46
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6789

Shmizmar wrote:

What the fuck...I'm Jewish!!

That's bullshit...And even if "my people" did kill Christ..Who gives a shit now!!?
Becareful what you say, the jews were enslaved once it can happen again.
2006-06-25 15:01:14
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6965|Salt Lake City

Well, there are new documents being studied by religious scholars, called the Judas Documents.  It chronicles the life of Judas, and says that he was one of Christs closest friends and deciples.  It also says that Jesus tasked Judas with turning him over to the Romans to fullful the prophecy, and that Judas did this knowing it would most likely mean his own death.

Just a short story on it.

http://www.wndu.com/news/faithreport/04 … _49111.php

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-06-25 15:02:21)

2006-06-25 16:46:51
Nomer
Member
+10|6927|North of Boston

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Well, there are new documents being studied by religious scholars, called the Judas Documents.  It chronicles the life of Judas, and says that he was one of Christs closest friends and deciples.  It also says that Jesus tasked Judas with turning him over to the Romans to fullful the prophecy, and that Judas did this knowing it would most likely mean his own death.

Just a short story on it.

http://www.wndu.com/news/faithreport/04 … _49111.php
Yeah, the Gospel of Judas basically depicts Judas as Snape.

Whoever did it/was responsible did him a favor considering it was fated and inevitable and all and it couldn't have been help[ed/avoided and was necessary (according to Christian belief) to redeem people from their sins and for their salvation, so I don't see how Christians can be mad at Jews.
2006-06-25 18:02:00
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6938|Wilmington, DE, US

Nomer wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Well, there are new documents being studied by religious scholars, called the Judas Documents.  It chronicles the life of Judas, and says that he was one of Christs closest friends and deciples.  It also says that Jesus tasked Judas with turning him over to the Romans to fullful the prophecy, and that Judas did this knowing it would most likely mean his own death.

Just a short story on it.

http://www.wndu.com/news/faithreport/04 … _49111.php
Yeah, the Gospel of Judas basically depicts Judas as Snape.

Whoever did it/was responsible did him a favor considering it was fated and inevitable and all and it couldn't have been help[ed/avoided and was necessary (according to Christian belief) to redeem people from their sins and for their salvation, so I don't see how Christians can be mad at Jews.
Judas killed Dumbledore?
2006-06-25 18:05:51
BigmacK
Back from the Dead.
+628|6980|Chicago.
Nobody was responsible for Jesus' death. <Insert Religious Reference Here>

I'm sure that even all the athiests and agnostics that are members of this forum know the story how he died for the sins of the world. If your going to blame anybody, blame us all.
2006-06-25 18:29:39
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6756|Portland, OR USA
How macro/microscopic do you want to get?  Since his purpose on Earth all along was to die for our sins, it could easily be argued that it's God's fault.  He sent his son to die.  On the other end of the spectrum, the soldier who stabbed him in the side with a spear (Spear of Destiny/Lance of Longinus) is the most directly responsible.

All that aside, there was a group of scientists recently trying to prove that when Jesus "walked on water" he was actually treading upon an unseen patch of ice.  There is so much retarded about that.
2006-06-25 23:58:56
SFR-Rooo
Member
+19|6871|portsmouth uk

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Well it's true.  If he didn't go around going "I am Jesus, the son of God!" then there wouldn't have been any problems.  Do you see me dead?  No, you don't, and you know why?  Because I don't claim to be the son of God.
so is that why your democratic society go around locking nutters up for proclaiming they are something they are not?.......go start a war.....!
2006-06-26 00:32:45
spastic bullet
would like to know if you are on crack
+77|6770|vancouver
https://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9516/busstopjebus8ck.th.jpg

Last edited by spastic bullet (2006-06-26 01:40:07)

2006-06-26 01:45:15
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6779|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth
No one, as it is impossible to kill a non-existant man.  You might as well posted a thread called "Who was responsible for the death of the Unicorn"
2006-06-26 01:51:24
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6784

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

No one, as it is impossible to kill a non-existant man.  You might as well posted a thread called "Who was responsible for the death of the Unicorn"
He wasn't non-existent but he isn't as special as people make him out to be.... he was just an ordinary bloke who had issues with hypocrisy and Roman rule in Palestine. The bible stories are largely guff.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-26 01:53:31)

2006-06-26 01:54:14
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|7018|Singapore

What's white and sticky and falls constantly from the sky?

The coming of the lord.
2006-06-26 03:50:51
LoMaX
Member
+24|6763|Sweden is banned from hell ;)
The only thing for sure when dealing with religion -

In France Champagne is Champagne but in Germany it is called Sekt. (somebody said).

/LoMaX
2006-06-26 03:54:19
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6873|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Shmizmar wrote:

What the fuck...I'm Jewish!!

That's bullshit...And even if "my people" did kill Christ..Who gives a shit now!!?
The same people that give a shit about Israel stealing Palestinian land, murdering Palestinian people, then claiming the dis-armed Palestinians are terrorists for finding a way to fight back, and trying to justify it with the holocaust...the rest of the world.
2006-06-26 03:56:54
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6873|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

No one, as it is impossible to kill a non-existant man.  You might as well posted a thread called "Who was responsible for the death of the Unicorn"
Jesus was a real man, a prophet to his people in his own time, that has never been disputed.  What HAS been disputed is his deity status.
2006-06-26 04:09:02
LoMaX
Member
+24|6763|Sweden is banned from hell ;)

HM1{N} wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

No one, as it is impossible to kill a non-existant man.  You might as well posted a thread called "Who was responsible for the death of the Unicorn"
Jesus was a real man, a prophet to his people in his own time, that has never been disputed.  What HAS been disputed is his deity status.
You put the nail right into the coffin! True, so true.
(Even in The Kouran he is mentioned as a "teacher/prophet" but according to that "book" not as eminent as Mohammed of course.. And he is mentioned in other "books" as well).
2006-06-26 04:15:33
LoMaX
Member
+24|6763|Sweden is banned from hell ;)

polarbearz wrote:

What's white and sticky and falls constantly from the sky?

The coming of the lord.
Well that was kind of funny? "Manna"=coming.. but perhaps....

One thing for sure, I think, perhaps we need to respect other peoples views? Right or wrong.
I am not typically religious myself.. but if a certain view is "the only view".. that will certainly create some kind of "problem".

/LoMaX
2006-06-26 04:19:05
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6904|Canberra, AUS

polarbearz wrote:

What's white and sticky and falls constantly from the sky?

The coming of the lord.
Urgh... sticky?

I don't really like sticky stuff.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-06-26 06:42:11
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6964|California
Mankind as a whole killed Him.

And don't hate, he was the original renegade/outlaw. All you political activist wannabes can learn a thing or two from Him.
2006-06-26 06:49:27
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6779|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

LoMaX wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

No one, as it is impossible to kill a non-existant man.  You might as well posted a thread called "Who was responsible for the death of the Unicorn"
Jesus was a real man, a prophet to his people in his own time, that has never been disputed.  What HAS been disputed is his deity status.
You put the nail right into the coffin! True, so true.
(Even in The Kouran he is mentioned as a "teacher/prophet" but according to that "book" not as eminent as Mohammed of course.. And he is mentioned in other "books" as well).
I'm disputing it, besides being mentioned in Koran is hardly proof of his actual exsistence and only proof of the concept of Jesus existing.

"No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings"

HSource: http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

P.S Okay it's from an athiest website but it makes some good points about the presumtion without proof of Jesus' exsistence....

Last edited by =OBS= EstebanRey (2006-06-26 06:52:15)

2006-06-26 07:08:13
lord_tyler_486
Member
+54|6981|Upper Franconia
I may be wrong but doesn't the story say that Pontius Pilatus and thus the "Romans" at first rejected to kill him ? And his people [»Jews] just all wanted him dead for saying hes is INRI, so in the end Pilatus had to agree ?
2006-06-26 07:36:26
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6873|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

LoMaX wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:


Jesus was a real man, a prophet to his people in his own time, that has never been disputed.  What HAS been disputed is his deity status.
You put the nail right into the coffin! True, so true.
(Even in The Kouran he is mentioned as a "teacher/prophet" but according to that "book" not as eminent as Mohammed of course.. And he is mentioned in other "books" as well).
I'm disputing it, besides being mentioned in Koran is hardly proof of his actual exsistence and only proof of the concept of Jesus existing.

"No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings"

HSource: http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

P.S Okay it's from an athiest website but it makes some good points about the presumtion without proof of Jesus' exsistence....
OK, by your logic:

Napoleon didn't exist

George Washington didn't exist

Alexander didn't exist

Constantine didn't exist

The Dead Sea Scrolls don't exist

Genghis Khan didn't exist

Kind Tut didn't exist

shall I go on???  These are all people written about during and after their time.  And to further refute what you say, the Gospels were written by people who lived WITH Jesus, and transcribed over and over...that to me is a first hand account of his existence.
2006-06-26 07:58:31
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6779|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

HM1{N} wrote:

Okay, by your logic:

Napoleon didn't exist

George Washington didn't exist

Alexander didn't exist

Constantine didn't exist

The Dead Sea Scrolls don't exist

Genghis Khan didn't exist

Kind Tut didn't exist

shall I go on???  These are all people written about during and after their time.  And to further refute what you say, the Gospels were written by people who lived WITH Jesus, and transcribed over and over...that to me is a first hand account of his existence.
1) Virtually all those people you listed can be proved by evidence a lot stronger than Jesus', I'm not going to investigate each one because we both know what you said is bollocks.  For a start, there are portraits of Naploen and George Washington as well as lots of proof of their existence.  There is no such evidence for Jesus other than scriptures written well after his supposed death.  I would also be pretty confident in finding documents and records for some of the people you listed which can not be done with "Jesus".

2)  One of the most well known facts about the Bible is that its authors are unknown.  This is accepted even by hardened Christians so to tell us now that it was written by his housemates is bollocks.  In truth, the Bible was most likely written by over 200 authors so Jesus must have had a f@cking big house.

P.S. Can you let me know now if you're one of the God bothering types that dismisses fact, logic and reason for some bull that comes out of a 2000 year old book?  Because I've tried to debate with people that think the Earth is only 5000 years old before and there's just no getting through to them
2006-06-26 08:07:16
parthian1000
Member
+8|6889|The Barbary Coast
The Jews are only fingered as the culprits in one of the gospels (Matthew, I think) - its just that that interpretation suited the views of anti-semites the world over and so became prevalent.  Even in that gospel the guilt is implied not explicit.

Add to this the fact that the "Bible" as we know it was effectively compiled by Romans 400+ years after the crucifixion and effectively overlays Christian ideals onto the cult of Sol Invictus (the effective state religion of Rome in that period - where do you think halos come from on Christian figures?  Sun worship!) then we have the introduction of Nicene Christianity (note a specific brand of Christianity as opposed to variant types) as a political tool.  Of course, Romans can't be seen to be the bad guys in the official literature ...
2006-06-26 08:13:26
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6784

ghettoperson wrote:

Well, the Romans were the ones who stuck him on the cross, so directly, they did. However, the Jews were the ones that told Pilate (or however you spell it) to kill him, so I suppose, they caused his death.
EDIT: Oh and why according to the title, did Jesus live for 3 years? Surely that doesn't make much sence. And when did Jesus try to overthrow a government. To the best of my knowledge, he went around teaching people about God, and performing miracles.
No you misunderstand - Jesus was a political activist from 30-33 AD (approximately).

The bible is not an accurate historical record of the time due to the numerous transcriptions, mis-translations, and re-workings of it. It is also largely metaphorical and not meant to be taken literally. Not to mention the fact that at the first ecumenical council of Nicaea, where Emperor Constantine I gathered all prominent Christian sects together to hammer out an organised religion, various 'gospels' (such as the coptic gospels) were dismissed and the four gospels of the new testament we know today were selected and doctored to suit the Emperor's political agenda (which included demonsiation of his jewish subjects in Palestine).

Actual accounts of the time and ancient scriptures that have been recovered (such as the Qumran and Nag Hammadi scrolls) make it far more likely that he was just another jewish preacher, preaching about how to be an obedient and moral jew. It is likely that he viewed the Romans as an affront to the sanctity of the land of Israel and wished them to be removed and became a martyr for the cause of a 'free Israel'.

If you are a logical human being you will realise that there are no such things as miracles.

 

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