BF2S Forums Did that guy outsmart me? Or was he faster then me?

jord wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Reflexes and experience. You don't need to be smart to be good at video games.

Of course you do, that's why i could never do Mictosoft Flight simulator...

Flight sims aren't video games. They however do take intelligence, so thats why I'm good at them and you aren't.

Oh snap.

IonYou wrote:

But on to the intel vs reflex or hand eye coord. debate. Let me ask you this: When you first started playing bf2, did you play as well as you do now? If not, why not? It's not like your reflexes changed much.

So it's luck, intelligence, hand eye coordination and lag. Not in any order. To varying degrees.

Any factors that are computer/server based do not count in this argument. Luck/hand-eye coordination are all factors that fall under the category of reflexes imo.

I say reflexes DO change after experience in this game. I do agree with you, it is a varying degree of both reflexes and intelligence. I do say its true that it is also SITUATION BASED!

In your example with the two guys seeing each other on uav, THAT is an example of both even. It is intelligence because one guy can camp, and wait for the other guy to get into view, or one guy can be smart enough to throw a grenade to displace the other, then run out and target him. But, AGAIN its reflexes also, because the other guy can see the grenade in the air and take cover quick enough IF he has well developed reflexes. Reflexes win in the end.

An example of reflex based skill:

You are on an SF night map say Leviathan; in the Submarine Pen by yourself in the dark, with night vision on. You stand still waiting...You hear movement somewhere! Now, how long will it take you to respond to that sound? Isn't it true that you first wonder what it might be and pause? Also it may be true, that you can turn the  INSTANT you hear it, and see a guy coming, right? But its all in the time that you respond to the sound, this goes for any map imo.  Reflexes win.

Sure a guy can put down a trap (Lose example of intelligence ie: claymore) in hopes he will kill a guy, but another guy can have fast enough REFLEXES to avoid that claymore. Reflexes win again.

Reflexes win in the end because even before you die, the last chance you have to survive is MOVING or killing faster then you being killed.


Edit: Nice to see I seem to have ended the debate. Now only if we can get Reflexes to pull into the lead!

Last edited by Im_Dooomed (2007-05-08 21:42:28)

Anyone that wants to argue intelligence plays no role should see this: hehe

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DivineMomentofTruth wrote:

I wish... people are just coming up with 2 word responses and no one adresses my points.

Here you go, a half decent rebuttal for you :

My views are coming from a clan that plays competitively, and not just pub play (I do pub alot though too)

You obviously don't play in many clan matches, or you obviously don't play the 'competitve' side of bf2 (no, pubs arnt competitive).

I see intelligence in bf2 as this:


-  Strat Making. This is the most important thing in the game. You cannot win a match without an intelligent, reliable and well thought out strat. Strat making is not just 'move here - cap this flag' no. It is much more than that. A good strat takes aages to make, you need to study the map, find the food tank sit points, the good places for infantry to move and cover the flag and attack a flag. It is more than simple instructions. It takes intelligence to make a decent strat that works well and makes you win.
A team full of champions and quick reflexes yet no strat (just pub it up in matches) will not win.

- 

Like others have been trying to say, reflexes are the number one winner in bf2 since battle tactics are so simple and linear on most infantry maps.

-  No. Maps are not simply about cap this flag - move to the next. No. Its about knowing where to sit the squad leader so the squad can cap a flag (eg: to cap karkand hotel you sit the squad leader either on the roof in between square/hotel or on the ledge next to hotel flag) so that infantry can spawn off you if the attack fails. Its also about knowing when to cap a flag. ie: you do not cap a flag on 16p oman when the tank is still up, you will get mowed down. Take the tank down, take the flag. This all take intelligence and game smarts.

-

intelligence is most used in a game like chess which is strategically complicated and requires considerable foresight and expectation in your opponents next move.

- This is a major thing you need in bf2, foresight. Looking at your opponents movement to see what you think they will do next. A smart team/player will know, or anticipate your opponents next move, so you can get people onto that flag to defend it. A good commander in a team will tell you what your opponent is doing, ie: they have parked the car here to prepare for an attack, they are driving the tank here to get into the position for an attack. You need anticipation in BF2 competitive play.

-

How intelligent you are will make nearly no difference on how well you will do if you just picked up bf2 as your first pc shooter ever. The only form of intelligence required really is adaptation from experience, if something doesn't work and you don't change what you do, nor will your skill. I honestly think this whole voting for intelligence business is just a mass delusional defense mechanism that everyone uses to justify all their time spent on this game. If you make it sound like a battle of wits, then spending so much time playing is enriching. But really its not and pretty much the only place your skills can be transferred is another pc game.

- I think your describing intelligence as someone for eg, who is good at maths. No, i'm talking about Intelligence as in game smarts.

-

tactics and planning will only get you so far in this game in terms of infantry due to the high degree of variabilty and general chaos that comes with it. Being smart enough to anticipate things will get you only so far,

- Being smart is what it is all about. In BF2 you cannot just rambo out infront of everything and expect to live. No, you need to know where to move that is, do I duck behind this and pop up and shoot him? Move up ontop of this roof so I get the height advantage? Intelligence also includes using the games environment to your advantage. A stupid player will not do that, they wont think to duck behind this box and pop up and shoot the guy, no, they will just prone in the middle of the road. That is what a stupid player will do. You are right that you need to be smart, but then have the reflexes to back it up, yes, I agree. But someone who knows how to move in the game, knows the tricks of infantry rather than rambo here, zerg rush there, cap that flag and not hide or use the game environment at all will not succeed.



Conclusion: Reflexes play a big role in the game, yes, you need to be quick to beat people in the 1v1 situations. Without reflexes of course you wont succeed. But Intelligence is the absolute key in the game. Competitively, you need intelligence for good strats, good movement tactics and general game play knowledge.



There you go, a half decent argument for you to use .

cowami wrote:

Mostly reflexes. Whoever can drop prone first and fire off about 10 rounds wins.

Unless it's a sniper at long-range, of course.

Bull shit statement.

You want to hit the ground last... when they are vunerable. You see a guy hop about wait for him to hit prone then go down you win every time.

The best trick is coming from behind a corner u see a guy he goes prone u come back behind the wall then jump round and go prone. That way you know where he is probably still prone and hes not 2 sure.

intelligence ofcourse

reflexes mean nothing coz BF2 hit detections suck, ull turn around to shoot that guy that was sneaking up on you but u wont kill him coz of the hit detection, happens alot

intelligence is needed the most when ur in a jet or flying a chopper

90% intelligence. You gotta know where to aim and how to aim as well as the tactics. I don't have that good reflexes but still own because I know what to do and where to go. You gotta know the weapons as well.

Vote Nulled:

You could be the most intelligent guy playing BF2, know every inch of the map, know what the enemy will do, and everything, but if you cannot find cover when you are hit, or can't target the enemy for 2 seconds you are a dead man.

You can have the best reflexes in the world, instantly head shot everyone you see.  But if you have no idea what the map is like, where the enemy is, or what you are going up against, you are a dead man.

You must have both to be a good player.  No reflexes, then you cannot win a 1 on 1 close combat meeting.  No intelligence, you'll be running down the middle of the road getting sniped 5/6 times.

doesn't take much intelligence to click a button

Tactics beat reflexes any day.. if they cant see you they cant shoot u faster.  Not that i havnt won some fights by having faster reflexes of course.

It's also a piece of luck, as example, everybody can do nade spamming, and hitting isn't hard with those thing. You just need to have the luck that somebody walks at the place where you throw nades (karkand beginning, nade spam, getting a kill as a random noob throwing nades is pretty much luck)

IonYou wrote:

Drexel wrote:

Vote Nulled:

You could be the most intelligent guy playing BF2, know every inch of the map, know what the enemy will do, and everything, but if you cannot find cover when you are hit, or can't target the enemy for 2 seconds you are a dead man....

Why wouldn't an intelligent player be able to find cover? Or target the enemy?

I agree with you though that it does take both.

What I meant by that is they cannot find cover quickly (slow reactions) or be able to spot the enemy quickly (slow reactions)