As a patriotic American...let me explain exactly what I mean by this. I am planning to attend the US Air Force Academy and serve in the Air Force. I do not blindly believe everything the government says. I love my country and acknowledge its faults...I would like to know about how people in other countries view patriotism both in thier country and their view of American patriotism. Particularly, I am interested in German views (I am currently studying German)
Well I'm American, proud of it, and want the liberals who think we can be too patriotic in this country to go shoot themselves. There was a story during the 4th of July about some guy having 50 flags on his lawn, one for each state. Yippee!!! Someone loves this country! Then Left Wingers came in and told him "You cant be so patriotic!" He was sued to take down some flags, and did so as not to loose all his money. Patriotism is great, Liberals like that should be tried for being traitors. They dont even help the moral of our troops in Iraq, they just say we are all dying. 2000+ deaths of ours to the Insurgents 50000+ Who is dying more? They dont make those things better. If they want to help everyone they should go play Russian Rulet(however its spelled) and ease us all of our pain.
Being swedish is not extremely popular in Sweden. If you travelled the globe and visited other exciting cultures you a good guy. Being "unswedish" isnt such a big deal. I guess that being Antiamerican is the US is a rather big deal. And people dont put 24 flags on their lawn, one for every state. That would be considered sick here i guess. But we do love our flag, and our nature, and our country. We have a lot of unusual and patriotic traditions, and we are sticking with them. But i think the american kind of patrionism is a little fanatical. Like, everybody is putting flags outside of their houses and stuff. And i personally hate watching films where the starting scene is the camera zooming out on the stars and stripes. Like Saving private Ryan and Windtalkers. To extreme movies by the way. The greatest thing about watching american films with my buddies on a saturday night is critizising them.
Damn, did we laugh at windertalkers. OMG ! (where are the smilies ?)
Damn, did we laugh at windertalkers. OMG ! (where are the smilies ?)
Last edited by Sh1fty2k5 (2005-12-16 10:58:54)
A few words at the beginning. I've been born in Poland, lived there for 9 Years, went to Germany with my parents 1989, away from decaying communism. I was 9 then. So i can say i've indirecty chosen this country. Now I've been living here for 16 years.
Germans generally are the opposite of Americans in the view of patriotism. You won't find any German flag here at almost any time. You don't sing the German anthem here in school. Almost nobody says 'I'm proud to be German.' here, except those few f***ked up NeoNazis we have here. They've mostly have no job, no future, so they do stupid things.
Germans did a big mistake in past. This is the reason patriotism never developed after war, because patriotism was understood as being a Nazi. Quite logical, we made a big mistake, nothing to be proud of. So people here are NOT USED to patriotism and therefore think that American patriotism is exaggerated.
Additionaly one reason for the absence of patriotism was it's abuse during Nazi time. You could control your citizens really well with patriotism in our past days.
I had the opportunity, to visit your coutry for 3 Weeks this year. It was not a long time, but enough to talk to a few people, to get some impressions and to learn some things. I was around in California.
My conclusion, was that America is simply different from Germany, not worse, not better, but simply different. I'll write something about it perahps later.
I didn't notice much partiotism when i was in CA, it was quite decent. Not so much of it as i have expected. A few flags here and there and a acceptance speech for the US Sodiers in Iraq during a show in Waterworld in San Diego. Perhaps Texas is different. The few people i met were normal too, from the view of a german guy.
My US jorney had an effect on me. I thought, why should i not be proud of MY Coutry? There is no reason for not being so. I'm the second Generation after the War, why should i bother the past? This coutry developed very well in many ways in the last 50 years thaks to you America. Now it's an important coutry, with a way of life i have chosen and i prefer and like. Now i have a german flag sticker on my car.
I think Americans should be prouder of _themselves_ than being proud of their coutry. Beacuse the State in Amereica seemed to me being less engaged in personal life of their citizens than here in Europe. It seemed, correct me if i'm wrong, that the state doesnt help that much in life, that everyone himself is resoponsibe for his success he has reached.
Patriotism i got to know in CA was ok, but in Media it seems to exaggerated. And Germans are antipatriotic.
Greetings,
lukie
Germans generally are the opposite of Americans in the view of patriotism. You won't find any German flag here at almost any time. You don't sing the German anthem here in school. Almost nobody says 'I'm proud to be German.' here, except those few f***ked up NeoNazis we have here. They've mostly have no job, no future, so they do stupid things.
Germans did a big mistake in past. This is the reason patriotism never developed after war, because patriotism was understood as being a Nazi. Quite logical, we made a big mistake, nothing to be proud of. So people here are NOT USED to patriotism and therefore think that American patriotism is exaggerated.
Additionaly one reason for the absence of patriotism was it's abuse during Nazi time. You could control your citizens really well with patriotism in our past days.
I had the opportunity, to visit your coutry for 3 Weeks this year. It was not a long time, but enough to talk to a few people, to get some impressions and to learn some things. I was around in California.
My conclusion, was that America is simply different from Germany, not worse, not better, but simply different. I'll write something about it perahps later.
I didn't notice much partiotism when i was in CA, it was quite decent. Not so much of it as i have expected. A few flags here and there and a acceptance speech for the US Sodiers in Iraq during a show in Waterworld in San Diego. Perhaps Texas is different. The few people i met were normal too, from the view of a german guy.
My US jorney had an effect on me. I thought, why should i not be proud of MY Coutry? There is no reason for not being so. I'm the second Generation after the War, why should i bother the past? This coutry developed very well in many ways in the last 50 years thaks to you America. Now it's an important coutry, with a way of life i have chosen and i prefer and like. Now i have a german flag sticker on my car.
I think Americans should be prouder of _themselves_ than being proud of their coutry. Beacuse the State in Amereica seemed to me being less engaged in personal life of their citizens than here in Europe. It seemed, correct me if i'm wrong, that the state doesnt help that much in life, that everyone himself is resoponsibe for his success he has reached.
Patriotism i got to know in CA was ok, but in Media it seems to exaggerated. And Germans are antipatriotic.
Greetings,
lukie
As lukie said, its a bit difficult to say "I'm proud to be a German" especially while talking to older people from other countries in Europe. Even beeing an german can be a problem. I've heard about a German who had to go to hospital in Danmark and he was in a room with a about 80 years old man who did not want to be treated (do you use this word here?) in the same hospital as the German. Ok, I can understand him, god knows what happened to him 60 years before, but the guy from Germany was not even born then.
But the youth of today starts to think different. Some in my age (I'm 17) from other countries ask why we still think, beeing a german is a shame. They say, we did not live in that time and so we did nothing wrong. I love that way of thinking, because its true. Today a german flag hangs on my rooms wall (next to a swedish and an american).
What I want to say is, that we must not forget our past, but we can start to feel better. We are a democratic and peaceful nation today and most of us love that.
What I don't like is the ignorance of some american teenagers. Some guys in my school have been to america for one year and there they were asked seriously if Hitler was still alive and if they were proud about having killed so many people. If anyone who thinks so reads this: Fuck you, that's not today's Germany. That was done by the Nazis, and the few damn fucking stupid idiots called NeoNazis are just shit. (I won't excuse for my language, because I really hate them.) As said before, they mostly have no job, no future, and no education or brain.
P.S. I don't only feel as german, but also european.
But the youth of today starts to think different. Some in my age (I'm 17) from other countries ask why we still think, beeing a german is a shame. They say, we did not live in that time and so we did nothing wrong. I love that way of thinking, because its true. Today a german flag hangs on my rooms wall (next to a swedish and an american).
What I want to say is, that we must not forget our past, but we can start to feel better. We are a democratic and peaceful nation today and most of us love that.
What I don't like is the ignorance of some american teenagers. Some guys in my school have been to america for one year and there they were asked seriously if Hitler was still alive and if they were proud about having killed so many people. If anyone who thinks so reads this: Fuck you, that's not today's Germany. That was done by the Nazis, and the few damn fucking stupid idiots called NeoNazis are just shit. (I won't excuse for my language, because I really hate them.) As said before, they mostly have no job, no future, and no education or brain.
P.S. I don't only feel as german, but also european.
Last edited by Mike<Eagle23> (2005-12-16 15:05:53)
Mike: Unfortunately, you're going to find dipshits and morons wherever you go. However, you can't rely on the comments of a few morons to represent what everybody thinks. It's just like the video I saw recently where people couldn't find Australia on a map, or thought it was a different country. If you talk to enough people, eventually you'll find someone who is clueless...
im german and i have a huge flag hanging in my room. nevertheless, like Mike said, i know what my country did wrong in the past and we wont forhet. however, i have nothing to do with that so im still a patriot.
I'm American, proud of it. But our country gets bashed so much that I think we should lock down our Borders and to hell with the rest of the world and let them TRY to get along with out us. I was in the Gulf WAR and killed many a sand flea wished we could have whiped them off the face of the earth
Flame if you want but that is how a lot of my friends here and when I was in the service feel
Flame if you want but that is how a lot of my friends here and when I was in the service feel
Last edited by Possum61 (2005-12-16 14:59:01)
Sure, thats why I said some. Quite sad. Just look at irans president.atlvolunteer wrote:
Mike: Unfortunately, you're going to find dipshits and morons wherever you go. However, you can't rely on the comments of a few morons to represent what everybody thinks. It's just like the video I saw recently where people couldn't find Australia on a map, or thought it was a different country. If you talk to enough people, eventually you'll find someone who is clueless...
Lukie, Cali sucks man. Live here all my life. Alot of unpatriotic shitheads running around here.
And you should be VERY proud of whatever country you hail from. What I don't like, is when fuckers come over here. I will use Germany as an example, since that's where you're from Lukie, not to bash it, but it's fresh in my mind. Say a guy emigrates here, settles in, gets a job. But refuses to learn the language, adopt some (not all) of the culture, and respect the local laws. To top it all, talks shit about how America is fucked up and germany is so much better.
Stuff like that pisses me off. We have a lot of ungrateful immigrants here who bleed off the system, and hate the country, except for when we give them free shit.
There are exceptions to the rule, like a few Mexican guys in iraq that joined our army, and are fighting for us, because they know the value of being a US Citizen. They don't take it for granted, I give them MUCH RESPECT. They are doing it the right way, not leeching off our system while chanting Death to America with food stamps in their hads, free medical care, and snot nosed little rats in school for free.
And you should be VERY proud of whatever country you hail from. What I don't like, is when fuckers come over here. I will use Germany as an example, since that's where you're from Lukie, not to bash it, but it's fresh in my mind. Say a guy emigrates here, settles in, gets a job. But refuses to learn the language, adopt some (not all) of the culture, and respect the local laws. To top it all, talks shit about how America is fucked up and germany is so much better.
Stuff like that pisses me off. We have a lot of ungrateful immigrants here who bleed off the system, and hate the country, except for when we give them free shit.
There are exceptions to the rule, like a few Mexican guys in iraq that joined our army, and are fighting for us, because they know the value of being a US Citizen. They don't take it for granted, I give them MUCH RESPECT. They are doing it the right way, not leeching off our system while chanting Death to America with food stamps in their hads, free medical care, and snot nosed little rats in school for free.
Amen brother !!!!!!!!!Erkut.hv wrote:
Lukie, Cali sucks man. Live here all my life. Alot of unpatriotic shitheads running around here.
And you should be VERY proud of whatever country you hail from. What I don't like, is when fuckers come over here. I will use Germany as an example, since that's where you're from Lukie, not to bash it, but it's fresh in my mind. Say a guy emigrates here, settles in, gets a job. But refuses to learn the language, adopt some (not all) of the culture, and respect the local laws. To top it all, talks shit about how America is fucked up and germany is so much better.
Stuff like that pisses me off. We have a lot of ungrateful immigrants here who bleed off the system, and hate the country, except for when we give them free shit.
There are exceptions to the rule, like a few Mexican guys in iraq that joined our army, and are fighting for us, because they know the value of being a US Citizen. They don't take it for granted, I give them MUCH RESPECT. They are doing it the right way, not leeching off our system while chanting Death to America with food stamps in their hads, free medical care, and snot nosed little rats in school for free.
Thanks for the responses. In America, we (I) usually don't really think of patriotism toward the world. It seems around here (Chicago) that patriotism is associated with national pride. I find it interesting how patriotism is recieved and displayed elsewhere. I find it sad that people still hold anger toward Germany. The war ended a long time ago, learn from the mistakes and move on. Sh1fty2k5, sometimes film makers try to put too much patriotism in movies, but I, for one, liked Saving Private Ryan. It may be that the flag has more significance in my mind and I associate it with veterans of war often.
American education has many problems. There are a lot of American teens who know next to nothing. I think part of this is due to the media, part due to schools failing, and part to parents and mentors not teaching, but I digress from the topic.
Erkut.hv, while I agree that those who come and cheat the system are in the wrong. I think we should welcome anyone who actually wants to make a better life here. Unless you are Native American, your family was in the same possition before.
Thanks for your opinions.
Integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do.
USAF
American education has many problems. There are a lot of American teens who know next to nothing. I think part of this is due to the media, part due to schools failing, and part to parents and mentors not teaching, but I digress from the topic.
Erkut.hv, while I agree that those who come and cheat the system are in the wrong. I think we should welcome anyone who actually wants to make a better life here. Unless you are Native American, your family was in the same possition before.
Thanks for your opinions.
Integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do.
USAF
I'm patriotic about the pub. If someone threatened that i'd go to war. Maybe the TAB too. Quite frankly im glad alot of people can't find Australia on a map. Makes me feel alot safer. I think that pretty much somes up our patriotism no flags on the wall, no hands on hearts, no running off to fight wars that don't threaten our way of life.
But if someone did threaten our way of life where there guns blazing.
However our prime minister is the biggest american patriot i know he's so far up bush's arse they'll have to send the gerbel in to get him out.
But if someone did threaten our way of life where there guns blazing.
However our prime minister is the biggest american patriot i know he's so far up bush's arse they'll have to send the gerbel in to get him out.
Erkut, i know what you say, this happens also in our coutry. Perhaps it is not that extre here. We also have some immigrants, who do not want to integrate properly and they talk shit about Germany too. I feel with you.Erkut.hv wrote:
[...]What I don't like, is when fuckers come over here. I will use Germany as an example, since that's where you're from Lukie, not to bash it, but it's fresh in my mind. Say a guy emigrates here, settles in, gets a job. But refuses to learn the language, adopt some (not all) of the culture, and respect the local laws. To top it all, talks shit about how America is fucked up and germany is so much better.
[...]
I myself am an immigrant. Now i am German, and i feel thankful what this coutry made possible for me. Same would happen, if i went to US from Poland.
@Possum61:
The Problem in this case is i think, that your current ambassador is not "appropriate" to this important job. It is HIM talking to the world, not the good and decent Americans. He sadly brings down the reputation of his coutry. Most people oversee this, that he is not the nation.