I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.Colfax wrote:
What people don't understand is that Middle Eastern countries teach there children from an early age to hate Westerners. i.e. Europe and America.
Most good western countries need to stop and look at themselves.............families need good society and give other areas our great world some peace to sort out themselves.............To try to control another group of people will never bring peace.
You miss the bigger picture. For one 9/11 was planned under the Clinton years. Those who would do Americans harm hate them and unless you can show them what freedom and Democracy is then they will always hate us. Don't you understand this ? Plant the seed of liberty and perhaps you can help them understand why we are what we are.cpt.fass1 wrote:
I'm going to try to make this as neutral as I can.
Why is it that almost all the American's who are prowar and for rebuilding a country in the middle east are against our government improving our lives? We could be building better school and giving away higher education, health care plans, or dumping more money into our privatly owned companies(this is going to bring great flaming). So why are we throwing money into a culture that will never accept our way of life and who are taught to hate the west because we formed a country that they never wantted in the middle of their culture? Now I really want to know the mind set of the people who think this "war on Terror" is a great idea, please no flaming.
Under the guise of Freedom we bring war to an other country, the terrorist could say the same exact thing. They could say that they were trying to destroy our financle instutions to make all american's debt free which would technically make us free, Right?
Nobody has every asked the U.S.A. to police the world and they don't get angry at us when we keep to ourselves, look at the clinton years we had so many more allies.
I have to laugh at your debt free remark, I'm sorry. But if you are in debt you more than likely used your freedom to get into it.
You said this War on Terror is not a good idea. This in my opinion is not a choice. What would your plan be ? To kill them with kindness ?
I believe that most of the world that "Hates American" have the poor little beaten red headed step child syndrome. It's kinda like why so many people hate the Microsoft's and the Walmarts of the world. The big guy is always attacked and criticized.
Your hate for America will never stop it from defending itself .
Last edited by Kmarion (2006-07-14 09:33:56)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
i may never have another erection, thanks a lot!Darth_Fleder wrote:
Not to mention the troll that he is married to....would you hit this?RicardoBlanco wrote:
Lol, her too, guess it was his way of winding down after a busy day in the office...works for me!TheEqualizer wrote:
Don't you mean he cared more about his intern?
http://graphics.filecorner.com/thedaily … -tired.jpg
I agree with all of that except the teachers part. Teachers actually make pretty damn good money. I think the average non-college level teacher makes around 45k a year. That's more than I make. If you take into account they get the summer off, the hourly rate of a teacher is somewhere around $30-$40/hr. They do need more money spent on books and renovations to the schools but I think the teachers do pretty well.Kaosdad008 wrote:
You all make reasonable points, but are missing one of the core parts of the question: How can the U.S. Government justify $BILLIONS in spending and aid to foregin countries (as well as throwing open the doors to illegal aliens) when we have U.S. Citizens that can't pay for their own meds, we have schools that fail to teach children because we don't pay teachers enough, police & emergency personnel who are undertrained & ill equipped (as well as underpaid) and no where near enough research into getting off an oil based economy?
That's the basic issue. It's time we stopped spending our cash on folks who would rather kill us than anything else.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
We can handle a new conflict. We had plenty of national guard troops that could have handled Katrina. Why they werent deployed right away boggles me i haven't seen any information on that.GATOR591957 wrote:
Kracker, please explain your philosophy on why we were attacked in the first place. Second, can you ever remember a time in American history when we were despised, hated and had our military stretched to points that we cannot handle another conflict, or god forbid a national emergency at home where troops could be used. This President and his "Cowboy diplomacy" has placed us in this situation. I will concede it was not all his doing. But, his demeanor and aggressive posture on foreign matters has made us all look bad. I will also concede during the last election there were not a lot of choices. Okay the last two elections. I also have to say I cringe everytime he speaks to the foreign press. He is supposed to represent the US people when most 10th grade students could do a better job at public speaking.kr@cker wrote:
for one thing, it's smoke and miirrors misdirection, now, all the fighting is happening on the terrorist's home turf, as opposed to them brining it to ours like they have for decades.....sssshhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone
there are plenty of plans out there by us bloodthirsty war mongering neo-cons, but since they take power out of the hands of the government, like privatizing the school system, they are furiously opposed by the libs and their buddies in the press, you'll also find that the tax cuts encourage private/small business ownership, or even dennis haster's fair tax bill, if enacted it would have eventually resulted in the elimination of the IRS, which is one of the tools that the more liberal parties use to keep a stranglehold on the american corporate sector
as for the war on terror, if we don't go and make some changes, the rest of our history will be more of the same, diplomacy and negotiations accomplish nothing with these people, appeasement tactics, like clinton used with north korea, only result in them wanting to be appeased more, the only things that have been proven to combat islamic jihaadism are education and freedom, during the times that the likes of Iran and Iraq were known as the free and educated leaders of the muslim world, they were the most peaceful, then you end up with the Ayatollah Kohmeini (sp I know) oppressing people in the name of religion, and Hussein, oppressing people in the name of his ego and legacy, telling people who can and can't go to work, who gets to go to school, what they are taught in school, when the Taliban was removed from power in Afghanistan school books were found teaching that the life of an Arab is worth twice the life of anyone else, the Khoran, which explicitly states that it is you duty to kill those who don't convert, is the main course of study, the only way to combat this is to open the doors for everyone to have the same access to everything, the fighting over there has never stopped, the question was whether or not we wanted to get involved
it's ridiculous to blame american culture which has only been around for a couple of centuries, for the violence and oppression that has existed among Islamic culture for millenia
and technically, Kuwait did ask us to be the world police
America...FUCK YEAH!!
being named as a negative by someon that respects someon like clinton is a compliment
damn, i started writing this when the topic was new
man blowing up people is a good way to show their love huh?!?! i.e. bus bombings in LondonRicardoBlanco wrote:
I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.
and teaching children to hate is good because?
Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-14 09:34:24)
Errr, are you condoning collective punishment?...spoken like a true american. And the bus bombing in the UK was not only lame but had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda..Colfax wrote:
man blowing up people is a good way to show their love huh?!?! i.e. bus bombings in LondonRicardoBlanco wrote:
I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.
I guess we just don't piss them off as much as you guys..and as for teaching hate, where did you get all yours from...oh yeah, your 'news' services lol..
Last edited by RicardoBlanco (2006-07-14 09:37:39)
oil
we were attacked in the first place because we are the epitome of western, non-islamic cultures, we were attacked in the first place because the Koran specifically states that if they didn't, they would go to muslim hell, whatever that is, we were attacked because we were there, this is not a new phenomenon, when England was the pre-war superpower, they were the target of Islamic extremism, mostly in their african colonies, but now after WW2 we are the western superpower, and terrorists have the means to get to us, we and our allies have been attacked in this most recent conflict for the past 3 decades, what the hell is wrong with saying we're through taking this shit? Look where it got france, they are being invaded by muslims, they are not assimilating to the culture like every other immigrant group has, they are already passing laws telling people who can wear what, who you can/can't fire, and if they don't get their way, guess what.......they burn stuff and kill people, hooray for the peace loving nation of islam. As I said before Carter's and Clinton's appeasement tactics resulted in nothing but getting the scum of the earth coming back and asking for more, where the hell do you think Kim Jong Il got his nuke tech and his light water reactors? The one's who do their job the best are often portrayed with very low public opinion, think about tony blair, he catches about as much crap out of the press, yet I think historically he will be one of the best PM's England has ever had, or Germany's past chancellor schroeder, he was anti-american and extremely anti-bush, he was portrayed glowingly by the international media, right up to the point where he lost the election, popular culture is very young, unfortunately it is also very loud, and we tend to think that a) it must be right, and b) they must be the majority, fortunately the more experienced segments of societies get up off their asses and vote once in a while
and you are grossly underestimating the capability of our military, the only thing that we have problems with is holding back, we, being a civilized culture, try to keep the total body count as low as possible often at the cost of our own lives, but if the situation is dire enough we will take the gloves off and our enemies will be silenced
and you are grossly underestimating the capability of our military, the only thing that we have problems with is holding back, we, being a civilized culture, try to keep the total body count as low as possible often at the cost of our own lives, but if the situation is dire enough we will take the gloves off and our enemies will be silenced
What are you talking about condoning collective punishment?RicardoBlanco wrote:
Errr, are you condoning collective punishment?...spoken like a true american. And the bus bombing in the UK was not only lame but had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda..Colfax wrote:
man blowing up people is a good way to show their love huh?!?! i.e. bus bombings in LondonRicardoBlanco wrote:
I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.
I guess we just don't piss them off as much as you guys..and as for teaching hate, where did you get all yours from...oh yeah, your 'news' services lol..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_200 … n_bombings
Perpetrator(s) al-Qaeda; Hasib Hussain, Mohammad Sidique Khan, Germaine Lindsay, and Shehzad Tanweer
Not done by al-Qaeda ? huh? what? doesnt that say.... al-Qaeda?
I get my hate from 3000 inocent people dying......
Put a terrorist in front of me and i will blow his head all over the wall
Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-14 09:45:45)
I think that the oil and pharmaceutical companies would argue that we are spending our tax dollars here at home. They get more (cooperate) welfare in a year, than do the supposed scourges of America (the universally blamed minority crack addicted single mother of 12 who lives in government housing).
It does? Where? Have you actually READ the Koran?we were attacked in the first place because the Koran specifically states that if they didn't, they would go to muslim hell
Prior to WWII the US was largely isolationist; staying at arms length from the rest of the world, and becoming entangled only as far as was necessary to make a few bucks here and there. To say our country was founded in interfering in the business of others demonstrates a deep ignorance of history.=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:
Because we are the great America and we always have stuck our noses in other peoples affairs. Nothing will ever change that. Our country was build on interfering in other peoples buisness since the beginning.
What makes us so great you ask? We are all blinded by our own Democracy and the only truth we know is the truth we here from other people, making us believe that we are, and forever will be the strongets nation in the world [I CALL IT BRAIN WASH] if you will.
But who knows maybe someday we will prove to the world that we are not just followers but also doers, and that we don't just care about ourselves, but that we really do wan't to make a difference. Not just for us but for everybody PEACE...................!
As far as being 'followers or do-ers' goes, I think it is pretty clear to everyone, whether one agrees with US policy or not, that the US is FAR from a nation of followers incapable of acting. That accusation would more appropriately be levelled at many countries critical of US policy.
Conclusion: Your post is ill-informed, almost entirely inaccurate, and serves no purpose other than to be inflammatory.
Bin Laden's original excuse for opposing the United States was because we had troops on the holy ground of Saudi Arabia. That purpose has changed over time, even as the vast bulk of US forces have left Saudi soil. I believe the latest excuse has been action in Iraq. In any case, the lack of consistency shows that there is no well considered reason for terrorist action.GATOR591957 wrote:
Kracker, please explain your philosophy on why we were attacked in the first place.
140,000 US troops (out of a total close to 1,000,000) are deployed in Iraq. We are not stretched to the point that we cannot handle another conflict, and certainly not to the point that we can't defend our own country. Our problem is that we are stressing the deployment rotation system in place, but in an emergency that is immaterial, as everyone would be activated.GATOR591957 wrote:
Second, can you ever remember a time in American history when we were despised, hated and had our military stretched to points that we cannot handle another conflict, or god forbid a national emergency at home where troops could be used.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-07-14 10:06:19)
Oil.................????
Then tell me where the troops are going to come from if we need to go to NK, Isreal, Iran, all hotbeds right now.Colfax wrote:
We can handle a new conflict. We had plenty of national guard troops that could have handled Katrina. Why they werent deployed right away boggles me i haven't seen any information on that.GATOR591957 wrote:
Kracker, please explain your philosophy on why we were attacked in the first place. Second, can you ever remember a time in American history when we were despised, hated and had our military stretched to points that we cannot handle another conflict, or god forbid a national emergency at home where troops could be used. This President and his "Cowboy diplomacy" has placed us in this situation. I will concede it was not all his doing. But, his demeanor and aggressive posture on foreign matters has made us all look bad. I will also concede during the last election there were not a lot of choices. Okay the last two elections. I also have to say I cringe everytime he speaks to the foreign press. He is supposed to represent the US people when most 10th grade students could do a better job at public speaking.kr@cker wrote:
for one thing, it's smoke and miirrors misdirection, now, all the fighting is happening on the terrorist's home turf, as opposed to them brining it to ours like they have for decades.....sssshhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone
there are plenty of plans out there by us bloodthirsty war mongering neo-cons, but since they take power out of the hands of the government, like privatizing the school system, they are furiously opposed by the libs and their buddies in the press, you'll also find that the tax cuts encourage private/small business ownership, or even dennis haster's fair tax bill, if enacted it would have eventually resulted in the elimination of the IRS, which is one of the tools that the more liberal parties use to keep a stranglehold on the american corporate sector
as for the war on terror, if we don't go and make some changes, the rest of our history will be more of the same, diplomacy and negotiations accomplish nothing with these people, appeasement tactics, like clinton used with north korea, only result in them wanting to be appeased more, the only things that have been proven to combat islamic jihaadism are education and freedom, during the times that the likes of Iran and Iraq were known as the free and educated leaders of the muslim world, they were the most peaceful, then you end up with the Ayatollah Kohmeini (sp I know) oppressing people in the name of religion, and Hussein, oppressing people in the name of his ego and legacy, telling people who can and can't go to work, who gets to go to school, what they are taught in school, when the Taliban was removed from power in Afghanistan school books were found teaching that the life of an Arab is worth twice the life of anyone else, the Khoran, which explicitly states that it is you duty to kill those who don't convert, is the main course of study, the only way to combat this is to open the doors for everyone to have the same access to everything, the fighting over there has never stopped, the question was whether or not we wanted to get involved
it's ridiculous to blame american culture which has only been around for a couple of centuries, for the violence and oppression that has existed among Islamic culture for millenia
and technically, Kuwait did ask us to be the world police
America...FUCK YEAH!!
being named as a negative by someon that respects someon like clinton is a compliment
damn, i started writing this when the topic was newman blowing up people is a good way to show their love huh?!?! i.e. bus bombings in LondonRicardoBlanco wrote:
I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.
and teaching children to hate is good because?
According to a BBC documentary I viewed a couple of days ago, the terrorists in London last year had started off alone, with no help from al-qaeda.RicardoBlanco wrote:
Errr, are you condoning collective punishment?...spoken like a true american. And the bus bombing in the UK was not only lame but had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda..Colfax wrote:
man blowing up people is a good way to show their love huh?!?! i.e. bus bombings in LondonRicardoBlanco wrote:
I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.
I guess we just don't piss them off as much as you guys..and as for teaching hate, where did you get all yours from...oh yeah, your 'news' services lol..
However, it seems as if Al-Qaeda helped them out in planning and bombmaking.
So it wasn't only Al-Qaeda, but they where involved.
Also, the London bombers differ from the WTC bombers in the matter that they where born in the UK, so they kinda bombed their "homecountry" (well, apperently they didn't consider it home, but..)
So they end up between the WTC-bombers, and Oklahoma city bomber, Timothy Mcveigh (¿spelling?)
take a moment and look at history (except for those under 16 living in america b/c they aren't taught history anymore). every country has done something like this in their time. several euro countries tried to impress their way of life on the "new world" during the 15 and 16 hundreds. England also had their day. probably the most obvious is the american revolution. then comes Napoleon and the french, and as we all know...that failed. so my point is that it will all play out. there was never been a country that has made all the right choices in its history.
I lived in Dubai for 11 years, what school did you end up in? I lived very close to Abu Dhabi for a good 3 years tooRicardoBlanco wrote:
I lived in the U.A.E, Abu Dhabi to be precise, for just over a year when I was younger and even then the parents of the kids I used to go to school with hated americans, but Europeans were not hated.Colfax wrote:
What people don't understand is that Middle Eastern countries teach there children from an early age to hate Westerners. i.e. Europe and America.
Ive noticed the same thing, the Arab people have absolutely nothing against Europeans. Their hate for Americans is also no where near as large as everyone makes it out to be. They're irritated by America invading neighbours and all, but the people dont teach their kids to hate people. Even the notion of someone doing that is abhorrent, stop saying stuff like that.
The bottom line is, having lived in and Arab, English and American environment for several years each, id rather be in the desert with these people. From the attitudes here, they may WELL be worth more than the life of anyone else. The average Arab national is much more moderate and understanding than the average patriotic American, and the Patriotic English are almost as bad, but dont show it as excessively.
So, before you pass judgements about thing like its in the Arab nature to hate, is it not now in the American nature to hate Arabs? A hate which i am certain is not reciprocal.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_MilitaryGATOR591957 wrote:
Then tell me where the troops are going to come from if we need to go to NK, Isreal, Iran, all hotbeds right now.
nearly 150,000 in middle east already
we have 1.4 million troops enlisted or officers in our military.
I think we have enough if it comes to having to do something.
For those who have lived in UAE: UAE is as benign an Arab country (countries?) as one could find. And if you have lived there, you know that. Passing them off as an example that Arabs are not hostile to the west is disingenuous.
Not just the U.A.E, Saudi and Iran too for a few months at a time. Oma is pretty rough as countries go, most of it is Wadis and inland seas, that kind of thing. Its a harsh environment thats bred a harsh people, but on the whole, they are just that. People. Just see things from their point of view, or try as best you can to. Im half Arab and im not going to bite your head off for being American, becasue they're are some Americans who have a good attitude, like the original poster.whittsend wrote:
For those who have lived in UAE: UAE is as benign an Arab country (countries?) as one could find. And if you have lived there, you know that. Passing them off as an example that Arabs are not hostile to the west is disingenuous.
cpt.fass1- I whole heartedly support the war on terror and the war in Iraq. I believe Saddam was a huge threat to US/World security militarily, Economically, and in his dealings with terrorists/attempt to execute a former US president. He sat on one of the largest oil supplies and threatened the largest supplier of oil (Saudi Arabia) and also Kuwait and Iran. He could have brought on a world depression by use of his military in the region and disrupting the world oil supply. The war needed to happen due to the current situation.
WITH THAT SAID:
I agree with you on many points. I feel that the war could have been done alot cheaper, and rebuilding needed to be paid for by Iraqi oil/Middle Eastern Countries/the UN and done without great grants of money by the US. If Nobody else was willing to pay for it, then they should have not been eligible for exports of oil from Iraq and the US should have bought all oil from Iraq at market value and used the money to pay for Military/rebuilding.
Also to keep this from happening again the US should be spending Billions on its energy infrastructure and higher education in technology fields that can help develop new power sources(and create laws protecting technologies developed in the US). The fact that I see no money being put into Ethanol production in the US, or laws being passed to outlaw the sale of new cars with no Hybrid/alternate fuel technologies shows how insincere the US Government (DEMS & REPUB) are about becoming less dependent on foreign oil so we don't have to support the Terrorist governments in the Middle East.
So in short, I hate the libs/peaceniks/anti-Bush crowd. I find them Illogical, insincere, uneducated, hateful, and untruthful.
I also hold the Bush Administration in contempt for wasting Billions of dollars in Iraq just to try to make people like us (EUROPEANS/ARABS) who will never like us anyway and we should not let them dictate our policies by trying to appease people with no interest in America's well being. Bush has ran up a debt that will make my children and grandchildren's future less hopeful and prosperous. No conspiracy to explain Bush's actions, just poor decision making and pandering to special interests. And yes, John Kerry would have been a worst President, he had no standards, beliefs, and his life has been one big contradiction.
I hope this answers your question as to how some of us Warmongers think.
WITH THAT SAID:
I agree with you on many points. I feel that the war could have been done alot cheaper, and rebuilding needed to be paid for by Iraqi oil/Middle Eastern Countries/the UN and done without great grants of money by the US. If Nobody else was willing to pay for it, then they should have not been eligible for exports of oil from Iraq and the US should have bought all oil from Iraq at market value and used the money to pay for Military/rebuilding.
Also to keep this from happening again the US should be spending Billions on its energy infrastructure and higher education in technology fields that can help develop new power sources(and create laws protecting technologies developed in the US). The fact that I see no money being put into Ethanol production in the US, or laws being passed to outlaw the sale of new cars with no Hybrid/alternate fuel technologies shows how insincere the US Government (DEMS & REPUB) are about becoming less dependent on foreign oil so we don't have to support the Terrorist governments in the Middle East.
So in short, I hate the libs/peaceniks/anti-Bush crowd. I find them Illogical, insincere, uneducated, hateful, and untruthful.
I also hold the Bush Administration in contempt for wasting Billions of dollars in Iraq just to try to make people like us (EUROPEANS/ARABS) who will never like us anyway and we should not let them dictate our policies by trying to appease people with no interest in America's well being. Bush has ran up a debt that will make my children and grandchildren's future less hopeful and prosperous. No conspiracy to explain Bush's actions, just poor decision making and pandering to special interests. And yes, John Kerry would have been a worst President, he had no standards, beliefs, and his life has been one big contradiction.
I hope this answers your question as to how some of us Warmongers think.
Last edited by Major_Spittle (2006-07-14 10:29:14)
We would need at least 750,000 if we went to just NK, or Iran. And that says nothing for both at the same time.Colfax wrote:
we have 1.4 million troops enlisted or officers in our military.
I think we have enough if it comes to having to do something.
Source?Shopvac wrote:
We would need at least 750,000 if we went to just NK, or Iran. And that says nothing for both at the same time.Colfax wrote:
we have 1.4 million troops enlisted or officers in our military.
I think we have enough if it comes to having to do something.
Kmarion I've said it before, if someone steals from your register after you left a job is it your fault? even if they planed it out during your shift?? No actually planing something isn't actually the action of doing something so how can you blame that administration, that's the worst logic I have ever heard. We might as well blame Nixon for 9/11.
Even though we only have 150,000 troops over in Iraq right now they are using military resources and with this resources the military is getting depleted. alot of the troops over their don't even have full body armor which is disgusting. It takes more then man power to fight a war.
I belive alot of the hatered for the west came with the build up of Isreal, imho that was a first strike against the muslim world, where there any attacks before that?
So far so good with the non flaming in this post I'm very proud.
Even though we only have 150,000 troops over in Iraq right now they are using military resources and with this resources the military is getting depleted. alot of the troops over their don't even have full body armor which is disgusting. It takes more then man power to fight a war.
I belive alot of the hatered for the west came with the build up of Isreal, imho that was a first strike against the muslim world, where there any attacks before that?
So far so good with the non flaming in this post I'm very proud.