Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6993|Dallas
I saw a comment in another thread about Indian Casino's that made me think and question.  Growing up in Oklahoma I know first hand how Indian's operate.  I am a bit confused however, as to the legitimacy of it.  I mean, think about it, we took their land and all.....170 years ago, so we still need to kiss ass 170 years in the future?  I'm not an expert on the subject but here is how it works as far as I see it:

Government gives Indians x amount of land and special privileges in said state.  Indians proceed to build Tribe government buildings, infrastructure, turnpikes, casinos, reservations, housing etc etc etc.  Tribe funded organizations are also funded (BIA, FUAS, etc).  Some money is also given to specific Tribe members.

Now what I'm asking is...why do they need their own government AND a national government?  Why are they exempt from taxes and allowed to build Casino's when other people are not?  Why are they allowed to use state equipment and employee's to build private roads and turnpikes that the proceed's go back into the Indian Tribe funds.  Why are they allowed to open up convince stores, gas stations, markets, smokeshops, casino's, etc, all tax free? 

Most people would argue the whole "well we did rape their land and kill them and stuff".  Yeah, like almost 170 years ago.  Black people used to be enslaved and were raped and killed but they don't see shit from it today, so why do the Indians? 

But the thing that confuses me the most is the way most live.  I grew up 20 miles from a town that was 90% Native American.  They had 4 Casino's right outside town, two smokeshops, a HUGE truckstop and a 10 mile long turnpike.  Now you would think with all this money coming in to the tribes, that the tribe members would be pretty much set, but not the case.  The area was an absolute dump.  The Tribe even came in and built houses, 100's of houses and let tribe members move in for free (let that soak in for a moment).  But yet, the place was an absolute ghetto.  As a matter of fact, in all of my travels, I am yet to find a bigger dump than Holdenville Oklahoma.

Anyone have any insight, explanations, comments?
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6780|Ohio
Because it's a small price to pay for stealing their land and killing off their people.

*I have no idea why they appear to hav eno interest in picking themselves up by their bootstraps and not become a people alcoholic fatasses. Sorta like the shit that comes out of the black neighborhoods about the man holding them down instead of taking responsibility for thier actions and actually changing their community.

Last edited by MorbidFetus (2006-07-08 17:17:02)

Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6993|Dallas

MorbidFetus wrote:

Because it's a small price to pay for stealing their land and killing off their people.
Ok.  So by that logic, African American's should own Georgia.  Also, subjecting an entire state to a horrible economic situation due to mismanagement is not a small price to pay, it's quite large.
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6780|Ohio

Cougar wrote:

Ok.  So by that logic, African American's should own Georgia.
No, by that logic, whatever native tribe that lived in Georgia before whites brought blacks to Georgia should own Georgia.

*I'm not saying we should go back to Europe (or wherever our ancestors emmigrated from). I'm just saying it's one shred of decency on our part. It's up to them if they wanna hold their own people down.

Last edited by MorbidFetus (2006-07-08 17:20:26)

Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6993|Dallas

MorbidFetus wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Ok.  So by that logic, African American's should own Georgia.
No, by that logic, whatever native tribe that lived in Georgia before whites brought blacks to Georgia should own Georgia.
True.  OK, black people should own 3 whitie's a piece for the next 150 years.  Either way, it doesn't make sense.
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6780|Ohio

Cougar wrote:

True.  OK, black people should own 3 whitie's a piece for the next 150 years.  Either way, it doesn't make sense.
If you're on a quest for ultimate balance, the entie human race should kill itself. I'm not saying what you are implying.

*Plus only a small percentage of Americans at the time owned slaves. Everyone at that time and currently still live on land that was taken from another people. You cannot equate the two issues. Like I said, there will never be a "perfect" fair. Just small opportunities to mend any wrong doings. Giving them land that they are free to control is a throwback to the old days and gives their culture room to grow. It's their fault if they don't care about the health and education for their own people. It goes back to the saying "The ball is in your court".

Last edited by MorbidFetus (2006-07-08 17:31:09)

MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6780|Ohio

Cougar wrote:

Most people would argue the whole "well we did rape their land and kill them and stuff".  Yeah, like almost 170 years ago.  Black people used to be enslaved and were raped and killed but they don't see shit from it today, so why do the Indians?
Blacks are free to go back to Africa.  Reparations would be impractical.

BTW, are Native Americans usually given their ancestorial land or land that is mutually agreed upon?
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6993|Dallas

MorbidFetus wrote:

Cougar wrote:

Most people would argue the whole "well we did rape their land and kill them and stuff".  Yeah, like almost 170 years ago.  Black people used to be enslaved and were raped and killed but they don't see shit from it today, so why do the Indians?
Blacks are free to go back to Africa.  Reparations would be impractical.

BTW, are Native Americans usually given their ancestorial land or land that is mutually agreed upon?
No I beleive it was more of a "Well your already in Oklahoma and we already built shit over at your old place.....you can uhh...yeah..just take it.  Tax free even.  No hard feelings?"  kind of deal.
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6799|Portland, OR, USA
we should just give them pluto.  hell when space travel takes off thats guna be some valuable estate...
RedneckSloth
Member
+12|6823|MI
The states allow it because they a portion of the income from the gambling. I don't know how true this is but I was told that it's around 20%.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6919|Tampa Bay Florida
It's their own land, and it's theirs to do what they want with it.  And if making money by owning casinos is the way they want it, then they're free to do so. 

We did not kill off the African American race.  We nearly did do it with the Native Americans.  So yeah, we should let them live on their own land.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6778|Southeastern USA
Funny how their logic went from "You can't 'own' land", to "You stole the land we own". And Indians were just as guilty of perpetrating attacks, rape, murder, and treaty violations as anyone else was at the time, American, British, French, Spanish, whatever.

The main issue being that the people that own/run the casinoes (casinos?) usually have as much to do with Indian culture as Joe Lieberman, and get such ridiculous tax breaks (when they pay any taxes at all) at the expense of the people living around the casino, and the main profiteers can be in a completely different state.

As for the slavery thing, african tribes were buying and selling each other long before the first Dutch ships arrived.
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6780|Ohio

kr@cker wrote:

Funny how their logic went from "You can't 'own' land", to "You stole the land we own".
I wouldn't really say that. I'm sure tribes fought if another entered into their living space (territory). I think it's more of a heritage thing since they considered themselves intertwined with nature.

Then again, I'm a white guy from Ohio so I am not the one to be commenting on Native American culture.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6945
Well I personally think they should pay taxes... dont get me wrong about i hate native ppl, im part taiwanese aborigine.

But them building a shitload of casinos is a little wierd right?  they should be able to pay their taxes, their not homeless or anything
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6747|Montucky
i'm currently residing in Montana, home to 7 Indian Tribes, the one thing you forgot to mention was firework stands.. every even in my travels to Washington State, near the coast where all those indian tribes reside, firework stands by the hundreds, and every one of them are a dump. Atleast 3 or 4 chevy trucks rusted out, missing wheels etc, trash everywhere, its disgusting. In the profession i currnetly am in, i'm in contact with Native Americans (.049% Crow Indian myself) on a regular basis, and when i talk to them they explain to me the reason they have broken the laws set by the U.S. Government was because of the rape and pillage of their land some 170 years. Now i ask this, how in the fuck does a 45 year old man with his 5th D.U.I. who's double great grandfather died by the hands of the U.S. Cavalry explain his actions for driving on a highway with enough alcohol in his system to get 3 people drunk?
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6789
States collect revenue from Indian gambling, thats their taxes. End of story genociders. Heres a thought. Why do americans in the south bring up history that favors them but forgets or twists the history that shames them
alpinestar
Member
+304|6825|New York City baby.
If you ask me we are on their land
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6964|California
Everyone's a victim.

170 years ago someone related to me was killed, so I can't get my life together. Waah.

200 years ago my great great great great great great grandfather was a slave, so today I have to sponge off the system and have 8 kids from 7 different dads. Waaah.

60 years ago an insane tyrant tried to wipe us off the map, and almost succeeded. Now I own a bank and run a large movie studio. Waaah.

Fekkin whiners, get over it already. Bad part of history is it gives people excuses as to why they can't get their lives together.
Ben>You
Member
+90|6755

alpinestar wrote:

If you ask me we are on their land
Glad nobody asked you.
alpinestar
Member
+304|6825|New York City baby.

Erkut.hv wrote:

Everyone's a victim.

170 years ago someone related to me was killed, so I can't get my life together. Waah.

200 years ago my great great great great great great grandfather was a slave, so today I have to sponge off the system and have 8 kids from 7 different dads. Waaah.

60 years ago an insane tyrant tried to wipe us off the map, and almost succeeded. Now I own a bank and run a large movie studio. Waaah.

Fekkin whiners, get over it already. Bad part of history is it gives people excuses as to why they can't get their lives together.
You are somewhat right but again if you think about it you protect the constitution because it is of great value to you me and other free people, same way they might think of their land even though it happened long long time ago
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6964|California

alpinestar wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Everyone's a victim.

170 years ago someone related to me was killed, so I can't get my life together. Waah.

200 years ago my great great great great great great grandfather was a slave, so today I have to sponge off the system and have 8 kids from 7 different dads. Waaah.

60 years ago an insane tyrant tried to wipe us off the map, and almost succeeded. Now I own a bank and run a large movie studio. Waaah.

Fekkin whiners, get over it already. Bad part of history is it gives people excuses as to why they can't get their lives together.
You are somewhat right but again if you think about it you protect the constitution because it is of great value to you me and other free people, same way they might think of their land even though it happened long long time ago
Okay, so let them rise up and try and take it back....
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6748|Πάϊ
It is really quite simple: The american government does not want native americans lying around. So they send them off to shitty places unsuitable for maintaining their traditional way of life, pack these places with casinos so the indians can waste their money there and give em plenty of booze so they don't have the strength to shout about the injustices against them. Same goes for the alledged state of Palestine.

It is quite effective too: dumping the unwanted in a hellhole not only shuts them up and keeps them out of your beautiful white society but also makes the government look good. After all they donated all these nice things... the casinos, the wasteland... and all that... you know...
First you go live in a ghetto and then "take your life into your own hands"  ignorant little poser. The truth is obscured by your daddy's money on this one.
ƒ³
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6919|Tampa Bay Florida

kr@cker wrote:

Funny how their logic went from "You can't 'own' land", to "You stole the land we own". And Indians were just as guilty of perpetrating attacks, rape, murder, and treaty violations as anyone else was at the time, American, British, French, Spanish, whatever.

The main issue being that the people that own/run the casinoes (casinos?) usually have as much to do with Indian culture as Joe Lieberman, and get such ridiculous tax breaks (when they pay any taxes at all) at the expense of the people living around the casino, and the main profiteers can be in a completely different state.

As for the slavery thing, african tribes were buying and selling each other long before the first Dutch ships arrived.
It became an issue of ownership when the white European conquerers began taking it.  The Native Americans (not Indian, but I guess it's just easier to say Indian, right?) were living off the land.  The idea that you can't own land is more of a philosophy, and it was an example of how they respected the earth. 

Saying they are just as guilty, LMFAO at you.  They posed hardly no threat to the European race and existence.  I thought popular culture taught people that we were wrong in our purgery and extermination of the Native Americans, but I guess it didn't work with you. 

You are either extremely ignorant or just plain evil.  Take your pick.
alpinestar
Member
+304|6825|New York City baby.

Spearhead wrote:

kr@cker wrote:

Funny how their logic went from "You can't 'own' land", to "You stole the land we own". And Indians were just as guilty of perpetrating attacks, rape, murder, and treaty violations as anyone else was at the time, American, British, French, Spanish, whatever.

The main issue being that the people that own/run the casinoes (casinos?) usually have as much to do with Indian culture as Joe Lieberman, and get such ridiculous tax breaks (when they pay any taxes at all) at the expense of the people living around the casino, and the main profiteers can be in a completely different state.

As for the slavery thing, african tribes were buying and selling each other long before the first Dutch ships arrived.
It became an issue of ownership when the white European conquerers began taking it.  The Native Americans (not Indian, but I guess it's just easier to say Indian, right?) were living off the land.  The idea that you can't own land is more of a philosophy, and it was an example of how they respected the earth. 

Saying they are just as guilty, LMFAO at you.  They posed hardly no threat to the European race and existence.  I thought popular culture taught people that we were wrong in our purgery and extermination of the Native Americans, but I guess it didn't work with you. 

You are either extremely ignorant or just plain evil.  Take your pick.
Can I pick both for him ?
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6756|Portland, OR USA

Cougar wrote:

MorbidFetus wrote:

Because it's a small price to pay for stealing their land and killing off their people.
Ok.  So by that logic, African American's should own Georgia.  Also, subjecting an entire state to a horrible economic situation due to mismanagement is not a small price to pay, it's quite large.
nor does it solve anything, two wrongs don't make a right blah blah blech.  It merely propogates the poor decision making.

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