I gave a null vote as I believe more than one of the options would of beewn possible. Russia would certainly have romped over most of Europe...no doubt Britain would of had troops there somewhere. What Russia would of done after its romp through Europe is something I can't offer an opinion on. I think if the Axis had won, there would be anything from an uneasy peace between Germany/Italy and Japan, to outright war. The "master race" bedding up with the nips? Not likely!
Poll
If the US hadn't entered WWII
| Europe would be speaking German | 33% | 33% - 67 | ||||
| Europe would be speaking Russian | 15% | 15% - 31 | ||||
| USSR would have liberated Europe | 16% | 16% - 33 | ||||
| World would be speaking German (eventually) | 15% | 15% - 31 | ||||
| World would be speaking Russian (eventually) | 3% | 3% - 6 | ||||
| Germany would share world with Japan | 8% | 8% - 17 | ||||
| Russia would share world with Japan | 1% | 1% - 3 | ||||
| World would be speaking Japanese | 5% | 5% - 10 | ||||
| Total: 198 | ||||||
Not quiet right. Hitler expected to take Moscow in two month. But for Russians to loose that city meant end of the war for soviets. Thus for in counting very heavy resistance on that front He was trying to take Stalingrad to go around and take Moscow from behind. Besides He was well supplied before interring Russia.Rick_O_Shea678 wrote:
I think the invasion of Soviet Union had more to do German need of oil than an attempt to drag Japan into action. Why was the pitched battle at Stalingrad anyway? Why did Hitler send army south, and not to Moscow? Because they needed oil, and were trying to get to Ukraine/Baku region. They never achieved the goal.Stags wrote:
Also, the reason Germany broke the Mutal Peace Agreement with Russia (USSR) is because Hitler thought he could get Japan to help him with Russia, which Japan didn't. However, in our scenario Japan isn't a factor, thus Hitler wouldn't have invaded Russia until he had the rest of Europe firmly under his control.
Hitler didn't open a two-front war out of foolishness or arrogance, he did it out of desperation.
Hang on.
We need to define just what 'US involvement' means.
I take it to mean military involvement (e.g. post 1942).
Economic involvment is different. No economic involvment was not a factor in my answer. If it was - Europe would be speaking German. What's left of Europe, anyway.
We need to define just what 'US involvement' means.
I take it to mean military involvement (e.g. post 1942).
Economic involvment is different. No economic involvment was not a factor in my answer. If it was - Europe would be speaking German. What's left of Europe, anyway.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
if US didn't helped Europe they wont have highways, nuclear boms the wouldn't walked on the moon the wouldn't have satellites so eventually German will conquer the world or Russia will take Europe and then Europe will be communism instead of democratic
Yes... is the US still economically involved or not? If not, the outcome would be with Britian getting overrunned. And Russia would've had a lot more difficulty.
Hitler wanted the oil fields but his target was Moscow, which if I can remember right wasn't where the oil fields where. He took over Romania which was oil rich.
Also the Atomic bomb really has no affect on the war. Germany was developing one but was way behind the US. Also, the US was already developing one before the war but wasn't fully sponsered by the government yet. Physics mainly like how do you do it and what happens (its very interesting). Germany's program was so far behind when we defeated them we were extremely suprised by it. The Russians got a big boost in their Nuclear program by a few US spies/traitors(?).
Also Germany never intended to conquer all of Russia they had the borders of Greater Germany mapped out.
The main problem is, Hitler use to see the US as another Arian country, but eventually his view of that changed and view the US as a corrupted country... which could be saved but not "now." How that would affect the outcome I really don't know.
Hitler wanted the oil fields but his target was Moscow, which if I can remember right wasn't where the oil fields where. He took over Romania which was oil rich.
Also the Atomic bomb really has no affect on the war. Germany was developing one but was way behind the US. Also, the US was already developing one before the war but wasn't fully sponsered by the government yet. Physics mainly like how do you do it and what happens (its very interesting). Germany's program was so far behind when we defeated them we were extremely suprised by it. The Russians got a big boost in their Nuclear program by a few US spies/traitors(?).
Also Germany never intended to conquer all of Russia they had the borders of Greater Germany mapped out.
The main problem is, Hitler use to see the US as another Arian country, but eventually his view of that changed and view the US as a corrupted country... which could be saved but not "now." How that would affect the outcome I really don't know.
Yes, they were well-supplied when they started in June. But they got stretched out, and underestimated fuel use. In August Hitler overruled his Generals, who wanted to push for Moscow. He wanted the Crimea, and he wanted it for economic reasons. When it didn't work out, he changed his mind a couple months later, and agreed to make a final push for Moscow, but by then it was too late, and winter setting in.l=l-Oneill-l=l wrote:
Not quiet right. Hitler expected to take Moscow in two month. But for Russians to loose that city meant end of the war for soviets. Thus for in counting very heavy resistance on that front He was trying to take Stalingrad to go around and take Moscow from behind. Besides He was well supplied before interring Russia.Rick_O_Shea678 wrote:
I think the invasion of Soviet Union had more to do German need of oil than an attempt to drag Japan into action. Why was the pitched battle at Stalingrad anyway? Why did Hitler send army south, and not to Moscow? Because they needed oil, and were trying to get to Ukraine/Baku region. They never achieved the goal.Stags wrote:
Also, the reason Germany broke the Mutal Peace Agreement with Russia (USSR) is because Hitler thought he could get Japan to help him with Russia, which Japan didn't. However, in our scenario Japan isn't a factor, thus Hitler wouldn't have invaded Russia until he had the rest of Europe firmly under his control.
Hitler didn't open a two-front war out of foolishness or arrogance, he did it out of desperation.
China would be a province of Japan and Europe would be under German control. I don't think Russia could've withstood Italy, Germany, and Japan all at once. Also, Africa would be under German control as well.
your wrong whit that never watched discovery channel you've stole the way how to build a nuclear bombs from Germany and your space programs are based on a nuclear rocket, and i thought that the us had spies in Russia to i thought you spied each otherstags wrote:
Also the Atomic bomb really has no affect on the war. Germany was developing one but was way behind the US. Also, the US was already developing one before the war but wasn't fully sponsored by the government yet. Physics mainly like how do you do it and what happens (its very interesting). Germany's program was so far behind when we defeated them we were extremely surprised by it. The Russians got a big boost in their Nuclear program by a few US spies/traitors(?).
Wheres the option that Europe would have won anyway it just would have taken a little bit longer. The war turned after US joined due to many other factor then just the 'might' of the US. Stop thinking you saved Europe or the war would have been lost of you had not come. You were but one part of a much larger coalition that defeated a country which made too many errors in tactical warfare (Hitler was no general and was too greedy for his own good).
The US did not win the war the allies did. The US helped, but thats all they did, help.
The US did not win the war the allies did. The US helped, but thats all they did, help.
didn't Russia helped us to (only for themselves but anyway) can we then also say that Russia have won the war
DrunkFace: How would Britain have gotten together the manpower needed to launch an invasion of mainland Europe?
As for what type of support: I'd be in favour of saying that the US still gave supplies, but didn't directly participate, primarily because otherwise it's too hard to gauga just what each nation was capable of.
As for what type of support: I'd be in favour of saying that the US still gave supplies, but didn't directly participate, primarily because otherwise it's too hard to gauga just what each nation was capable of.
USSR won the war and there is nothing to talk about!
Is it just me or is this whole thread just another "Aren't Americans just Great!" thread.
Get over it FFS. I've been one of the first to come forward and apologise for the bigotted attitude of some brits towards the US but in this one you're just trying to get everybody to say how great you are.
Be very careful or we may just end up with another round of "Why the US should keep their noses out of other people's business" threads.
Doc
Get over it FFS. I've been one of the first to come forward and apologise for the bigotted attitude of some brits towards the US but in this one you're just trying to get everybody to say how great you are.
Be very careful or we may just end up with another round of "Why the US should keep their noses out of other people's business" threads.
Doc
I wonder how many million lives may have been saved if the US had joined in at the beginning rather than becoming rich selling us guns to die trying to stop a genocidal invading army.
I absolutely agree that without their supplies pre pearl Harbor and without their army, navy and air force post pearl harbor the war would have gone far worse for everyone in Europe. Only the Russians could have stopped it. Allegedly, even after Pearl Harbor the US wasn't planning on declaring war on Germany, it was only due to Hitler's declaration of war on the US that they got involved in Europe.
Yes the The US saved us, but sitting around for 3 years becoming rich while ignoring mass genocide wasn't exactly a period to be proud of.
Also Fanta was a brand invented to allow Coca-cola to sell soft drinks to the Nazis and IMB sold the computers that were used to organise the genocide during the war.
I absolutely agree that without their supplies pre pearl Harbor and without their army, navy and air force post pearl harbor the war would have gone far worse for everyone in Europe. Only the Russians could have stopped it. Allegedly, even after Pearl Harbor the US wasn't planning on declaring war on Germany, it was only due to Hitler's declaration of war on the US that they got involved in Europe.
Yes the The US saved us, but sitting around for 3 years becoming rich while ignoring mass genocide wasn't exactly a period to be proud of.
Also Fanta was a brand invented to allow Coca-cola to sell soft drinks to the Nazis and IMB sold the computers that were used to organise the genocide during the war.
But :Lisik wrote:
USSR won the war and there is nothing to talk about!
US & GB helped alot with strategical bombing of Germany war factories .
USSR had no chance to destroy Japan fleet , US did this .
And yes , supplyes helped a lot , espeshially "Jimmy" trucks , USSR army had no good universal truck . And without trucks none of the great army can attack .
btw , Anybody remember about Japan's one million ppl army in China destroyed by USSR in 2 months (1945) ?
USSR keeped a huge power ( about 300.000 ppl ; tanks , jets etc.) on China border , so even if Japan attacked in 1941 , they would probably pushed away , they had no good tanks or land-based jets , their ground army sucked .
My vote for "Europe would be speaking Russian" but in my opinion - in this way the III World War wouldn't be cold...
I think, that the only continent speaking Germany if the Americans had entered the war would be Africa. The Americans only really effected the war in Europe was through their constant bombing raids of German positions and cities.
My vote went to "Europe would be speaking Russian." For I doubt the Japanese would have dared to invade Russia after they'd conquered China. Germany would have still tried to invade Russia but I think that the Russians have a very simple yet effective strategy. One the have used twice already.
When invaded during Winter- retreat and fire from a distance.
Hitler used the exact same path as Napoleon, who happened to have failed miserably when he invaded Russia in 1812. Russians have so much land, they can just keep retreating and retreating until the enemy's army is just falls to the lack of survival sills they have.
My vote went to "Europe would be speaking Russian." For I doubt the Japanese would have dared to invade Russia after they'd conquered China. Germany would have still tried to invade Russia but I think that the Russians have a very simple yet effective strategy. One the have used twice already.
When invaded during Winter- retreat and fire from a distance.
Hitler used the exact same path as Napoleon, who happened to have failed miserably when he invaded Russia in 1812. Russians have so much land, they can just keep retreating and retreating until the enemy's army is just falls to the lack of survival sills they have.
FruitLoop: You'll note that I'm not a fan of the US, and feel the "US won the war" outlook foolish, at best. This thread is to attempt to get discussion about the subject out of other threads.
Medic: The problem is that if the Russians had lost Stalingrad, their oil supply would have been cut off. Personally, though, I believe they would have subsumed Europe. The question would then become how well the Western Eurpeans could have resisted.
Medic: The problem is that if the Russians had lost Stalingrad, their oil supply would have been cut off. Personally, though, I believe they would have subsumed Europe. The question would then become how well the Western Eurpeans could have resisted.
In which case you have my apologies young man. It's just that the thread poll (from the point of view of a brit) boils down to "If the US hadn't entered WWII, who would you have lost to?" It could have been more expansive in it's choices.
Doc
Doc
who think we would lost the UK could have won they were pretty strong to and Russia had millions of mens to help Europe (to bad they didnt had the guns for those mans)
LOL!, I thought this was gonna be a topic about the nintendo Wii
I suppose I should have put in a "France et al liberate themselves" option, but it just seems so unlikely. The resistance movements weren't insurgencies, per se, which meant that a seaborne invasion would be required. And much as I'd love to talk about how much ANZACs rocked ('cos they were totally the best soldiers in the war ), I can't see the British getting enough forces and supplies from the Commonwealth to mount that invasion.
I'm not necessasrily disputing that, I don't know enough about the war to form an opinion and I'm not a student of history to find out. Truth be told, I'm probably very bad in that I'm apathetic about the whole thing, it happened, I wasn't there, I'm not that bothered.
I was just pointing out that your poll broke the cardinal rule in that it was already one sided.
Doc
I was just pointing out that your poll broke the cardinal rule in that it was already one sided.
Doc
Hitler was too gready when he got Moscow! Then he wantd whole Russia, but he didn't know that Stalin retreated all his men till Stalingrad where the Winter suprised the Germans. No-one has ever beaten the Russians! No Napoleon, No Hitler! USA lost a couple!(yes i know there are no winners at wars) Anyway i think the whole world would have been speaken Russian if the US didn't help. 1 million soldiers in the USSR was nothing!
so America helped but the were cooperative whit Russia so why don't we speak Russian now?
Dont have time to read all the pages, but to answer your question, by the time the US entered the war(If they didnt at that time, The UK and France and the rest would have been defeated) Thus leaving Ole Hitler with many more troops and resources to fight on the russian front. I think with the sheer Power of the german armor, and if they still had there air power that the US and Brittan destroyed, he would have won. I mean this is just a guess, because we cant rewrite history, but just from the books and the accounts of the war i base my opinion on this.Bubbalo wrote:
How would he have defeated Russia?
I mean Hitler clearly had the upper hand before we got in.
Harry