KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6861|949

=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:

I'm sorry but i do not see how people can turn Gay Look at this Pic and tell me it doesn't disturb you

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1032/00315zv.jpg
Good one bro, did you spend all day looking that one up?  Back to the discussion!

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-06-27 12:11:44)

cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6925|NJ
I didn't say that you did disapprove I was just comparing it to down syndrom because that is a diese that they do detect early on in the stages.
=TFF=Omen_NataS
Member
+60|6769

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:

I'm sorry but i do not see how people can turn Gay Look at this Pic and tell me it doesn't disturb you

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1032/00315zv.jpg
Good one bro, did you spend all day looking that one up?  Back to the discussion!
No but i'm trying to prove a point.........!
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6965|Salt Lake City

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I didn't say that you did disapprove I was just comparing it to down syndrom because that is a diese that they do detect early on in the stages.
That is a good point, and one I had thought of, but had decided not to include in the initial scenario, as I felt that I had already given enough "what if" options.  Just didn't want to make it too convoluted, but it is a valid point.

I believe it is ultimately up to the woman to decide, but when you throw science into the mix, it can get a lot more difficult.  As medical science advances, and we can better detect fetal defects, are we going to become a society that throws away unborn children that are "defective"?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6861|949

=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:

I'm sorry but i do not see how people can turn Gay Look at this Pic and tell me it doesn't disturb you

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1032/00315zv.jpg
Good one bro, did you spend all day looking that one up?  Back to the discussion!
No but i'm trying to prove a point.........!
And what is your point?
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6964|California

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I didn't say that you did disapprove I was just comparing it to down syndrom because that is a diese that they do detect early on in the stages.
That is a good point, and one I had thought of, but had decided not to include in the initial scenario, as I felt that I had already given enough "what if" options.  Just didn't want to make it too convoluted, but it is a valid point.

I believe it is ultimately up to the woman to decide, but when you throw science into the mix, it can get a lot more difficult.  As medical science advances, and we can better detect fetal defects, are we going to become a society that throws away unborn children that are "defective"?
And at what point do we stop with the diseases?

Imagine the next Stephen Hawking is aborted because it was deemed that his ALS would develop at some point in his life, and his parents couldn't bear the thought of him living like that.

Since ADD is considered a disease now, do we abort babies who we might deem hyper in the future?

As we all know, there was a group 60 years ago who was trying to do the very thing we speak of. We need to tread VERY carefully in this area.
Sondernkommando
Member
+22|6945
This boils down to "two wrongs don't make a right".   Also:

- God did not make a perfect world - he didn't want to.  The world has evil, has disease, and most importantly, we have free will.  It's how we handle these things that determines our character.

- I believe that, for the most part, homosexuality is innate.  The question is, do you accept this, recognize their skills (often considerable) and leave them alone to live their lives, or do you socially re-engineer your society to tell kids that having "two daddies" is as natural as the nuclear family?  That's where I draw the distinction...

- finally, a thought of my own.  We here in Canada have been reading about certain SouthEast Asian groups who selectively abort female babies because having a male baby is so much more desireable.  This has raised a storm with women's groups who oppose this kind of discrimination, but now what?  Which of the two females involved has more rights?  How is this worse than having an abortion because being pregnant is "inconvenient"?


Kudos to all for a great, civilized discussion.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6925|NJ
Wow I just missread the 60 years ago and thought it said 60 year olds. Yeah just because someone is deemed flawless(no negative traits) doesn't mean their "soul" or humanity is better then anyone else.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6965|Salt Lake City

Erkut.hv wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I didn't say that you did disapprove I was just comparing it to down syndrom because that is a diese that they do detect early on in the stages.
That is a good point, and one I had thought of, but had decided not to include in the initial scenario, as I felt that I had already given enough "what if" options.  Just didn't want to make it too convoluted, but it is a valid point.

I believe it is ultimately up to the woman to decide, but when you throw science into the mix, it can get a lot more difficult.  As medical science advances, and we can better detect fetal defects, are we going to become a society that throws away unborn children that are "defective"?
And at what point do we stop with the diseases?

Imagine the next Stephen Hawking is aborted because it was deemed that his ALS would develop at some point in his life, and his parents couldn't bear the thought of him living like that.

Since ADD is considered a disease now, do we abort babies who we might deem hyper in the future?

As we all know, there was a group 60 years ago who was trying to do the very thing we speak of. We need to tread VERY carefully in this area.
That was exactly my point.  I'm sure without much difficulty we could name many famous people that had a medical condition of one kind or another.  Hawking is one of the most brilliant scientists of our time.  Mozart was deaf, and the list goes on.
=TFF=Omen_NataS
Member
+60|6769
My point is this!

If i look at that Pic it makes me sick to my stomach.
And if a person that has feelings for the same sex looks at it he gets turned on.

I don't think it is a disease that makes you start likeing the same sex cause why would a peson that has never been attracted to the same sex all of his life all of a sudden start sleeping with them sex

My point is that i feel the same way about abortions as i do about homosexuality its fucked up but it's there Why i don't know so i have to live with it after all it's there choice and not your's so why would you post a thread like this unless you start thinking of becoming gay or your girl has to go for an abortion. ether way

LIFE IS TO SHORT TO THINK OF BS LIKE THIS
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6925|NJ
Sondernkommando yeah but the Asian groups don't "Abort" the baby as much as murder them after they are born and that is why they are having a problem with the male/female population over there.
Fubar/fox
Sponcered by belgium beer
+4|7054|Belgium
Don't hate me for this but have anny off you seen X-men 3 ?
In my opinion if you change the mutant Gene by a a Gene that affects sexuality you get a pretty good idea of how dangerous it is to decide what is a condition and what is a free choice ...

and how people would react to it

Last edited by Fubar/fox (2006-06-27 15:52:49)

<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6931|New York

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I would have it aborted, Id treat it as an incurable birth defect. Sorry if this offends, But you wanted an answer.
And so you support abortion on demand?

In fact, lets take this hypothetical one step further.  Let's say that you and/or your wife carry a recessive gene and causes homosexuality.  Are you going to divorce your wife since there is no reason for your to be married.  Let me quote you from the "US in 2008" thread.

Ok smacktard first off lets see, Gays Shouldnt have rights as do a man and a woman in MARRIAGE! The whole meaning behind MARRIAGE is to procreate the population. How the fuck is a Gay suppose to do that? Shit one out?
Since you won't procreate a gay person, as you noted in your comment, you no longer have a reason to be married.  Especially if you are the carrier of the recessive gene that causes the "defect", as you call it.

Please, I'd really like to hear you comments regarding this.
Still a man and a woman, and if it was found that we carry this gene, we either 1- Enjoy our nephews, or 2- adopt. Simple as that. point is we are what the bonds were INTENDED to be, MAN AND WOMAN! Does that answer your  question?

Id like to add, i didnt get married for benefits or insurance, or for a tax break(because there isnt one) Got married to the woman i love. Im dissabled from a military accident and from a work accident where i broke my back, I Still have to pay full price for my own insurance, she has her own. So my views on this truely are not do to any beliefe in a religon. Its based on Upbringing and the morals instilled in me by my parents(no matter how flawed there upbringing of me was) I atleast learned some sense of morals.

Last edited by <[onex]>Headstone (2006-06-27 18:54:09)

rolluf69
Member
+7|6750
to each his own
and treat people the way you want them to treat you(sorry for the spelling)
Havazn
Member
+39|6923|van.ca

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I would have it aborted, Id treat it as an incurable birth defect. Sorry if this offends, But you wanted an answer.
And so you support abortion on demand?

In fact, lets take this hypothetical one step further.  Let's say that you and/or your wife carry a recessive gene and causes homosexuality.  Are you going to divorce your wife since there is no reason for your to be married.  Let me quote you from the "US in 2008" thread.

Ok smacktard first off lets see, Gays Shouldnt have rights as do a man and a woman in MARRIAGE! The whole meaning behind MARRIAGE is to procreate the population. How the fuck is a Gay suppose to do that? Shit one out?
Since you won't procreate a gay person, as you noted in your comment, you no longer have a reason to be married.  Especially if you are the carrier of the recessive gene that causes the "defect", as you call it.

Please, I'd really like to hear you comments regarding this.
Still a man and a woman, and if it was found that we carry this gene, we either 1- Enjoy our nephews, or 2- adopt. Simple as that. point is we are what the bonds were INTENDED to be, MAN AND WOMAN! Does that answer your  question?

Id like to add, i didnt get married for benefits or insurance, or for a tax break(because there isnt one) Got married to the woman i love. Im dissabled from a military accident and from a work accident where i broke my back, I Still have to pay full price for my own insurance, she has her own. So my views on this truely are not do to any beliefe in a religon. Its based on Upbringing and the morals instilled in me by my parents(no matter how flawed there upbringing of me was) I atleast learned some sense of morals.
How does marriage promote procreation? We can all procreate without being married. Besides, half of all marriages fail, does that mean our population is going reduce?

In response to your edit: If your marriage wasnt for any beneifts than why do you oppose a same sex couple to get married? If its for love, than its the same as yours. Love is not a scientifcally measured unit so you cannot say you love her more than he may love a man.

Last edited by Havazn (2006-06-27 19:27:07)

sidious1
Member
+15|6771
Great discussion, guys.

My view is, if I knew I was going to have a child that would turn out gay I would still have it. Hate the sin, love the sinner(that is what most Christians believe)
Abortion?!?!?! Any way you look at it, its murder of an innocent and defenseless child. Even in the case of rape and incest, its still murder. What they do to those BABIES is far worse than what those evil bastards did to our two brave soldiers last week. A life is a life and gay or not gay, its still breaths and has a heartbeat. As far as asia and their killing of female babies, they are now  breeding themselves out of excistance. Japan is in danger as there are more Men than Woman and the women cant be bothered to have a child. Totally messed up.

Well theres my 2 cents!
Slan!
Fubar/fox
Sponcered by belgium beer
+4|7054|Belgium

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

I atleast learned some sense of morals.
The only prob with that is that moral is submitted to change Moral is just what people think is right at a given point and i can change
example : in some parts of the world or certain groups (nudists for ex ) its perfectly normal for woman to walk outside without theire brest covered or wearing a bra and no one cares because everyboddy does it theire and they dont see annything worng with it and if you think about it is theire annything wrong wiht it??
SiMSaM16
Member
+48|6922|United States of America
I dont care what is hypothetical...

Homosexuality is 100% mental.

Abortion is 99.9999999999999% wrong, if you could tell which baby would be the next Hitler, then it wouldnt be so bad.
Mongoose
That 70's guy
+156|6759|Sydney, in 1978
homosexuality isint a mental disorder SiMSaM16, its gods way of making everyone unique. And it is almost impossible to prevent homosexuality, as soon as you child sees that one guy/girl (depending on their sex) then they straight away know if their going to be straight/bisexual or homosexual. And i do believe abortion is wrong i mean killing a baby simply because of 1 minor difference? and also, what would you do if your son/daughter told you if they were Bisexual? I just felt like adding that in because almost no one thinks of people liking both sexes their either straight or not and i dont think thats right because there are people who do have feelings for guys and girls (im not too good at writing please forgive me if it makes no sense)
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6931|New York
you should be shot in the face, with fucking rock salt until you die -1

LMAO Another pimple faced kid hideing behind his screen. The karma system is nothing more than a way to flame the hell out of people without repocussions. I sit and write my opinion, and get neg Karma. LMAO Figures, and some want to know why i take such a hard line on things.
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6931|New York

Havazn wrote:

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:


And so you support abortion on demand?

In fact, lets take this hypothetical one step further.  Let's say that you and/or your wife carry a recessive gene and causes homosexuality.  Are you going to divorce your wife since there is no reason for your to be married.  Let me quote you from the "US in 2008" thread.


Since you won't procreate a gay person, as you noted in your comment, you no longer have a reason to be married.  Especially if you are the carrier of the recessive gene that causes the "defect", as you call it.

Please, I'd really like to hear you comments regarding this.
Still a man and a woman, and if it was found that we carry this gene, we either 1- Enjoy our nephews, or 2- adopt. Simple as that. point is we are what the bonds were INTENDED to be, MAN AND WOMAN! Does that answer your  question?

Id like to add, i didnt get married for benefits or insurance, or for a tax break(because there isnt one) Got married to the woman i love. Im disabled from a military accident and from a work accident where i broke my back, I Still have to pay full price for my own insurance, she has her own. So my views on this truly are not do to any belief in a religion. Its based on Upbringing and the morals instilled in me by my parents(no matter how flawed there upbringing of me was) I at least learned some sense of morals.
How does marriage promote procreation? We can all procreate without being married. Besides, half of all marriages fail, does that mean our population is going reduce?

In response to your edit: If your marriage wasn't for any benefits than why do you oppose a same sex couple to get married? If its for love, than its the same as yours. Love is not a scientifically measured unit so you cannot say you love her more than he may love a man.
To answer your first question, Promiscuous sex spreads disease, and Causes a HUGE strain on the population because of unwed mothers having to rely on the welfare system to raise there kids. Another fact is, Children raised without a father(usually because they don't know who the father is) are many more times likely to turn to a life of crime. To answer your second question, As i said before its a matter of morals. Not being Christian, i still believe its wrong.

PS, 3 out of 1000 end in divorce.

Last edited by <[onex]>Headstone (2006-06-28 04:25:49)

Havazn
Member
+39|6923|van.ca
Now, if unmarried people are having MORE kids than married people, doesn't marriage then actually inhibit procreation? The idea of procreation is simply to continue to reproduce. Yes it affects the economy and society as a whole, but those aren't the focus of this discussion. Marriage is a concept that has NO bearing on actual reproduction.

Not all unwed mothers live off the dole and not all marriages mean the couple have enough money to support kids.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm

it says here that 3.7 out of 1000 people get divorced, however only 7.8 out of 1000 get married. This means that 47% of marriages end in divorce.

so with that information, a lot of kids are going to end up with single parents. Maybe kids who grow up with two moms or two dads might have a better upbringing. Why not let them find out?
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6756|Portland, OR USA
Let me preface this by saying I have no issue with homosexuality or homosexuals and regard it as nature over nurture or a conscious choice.  That being said, homosexuality IS a deviation from nature.  The purpose of any species is to propogate itself at the most base level.  Homosexuality is a direct contradiction to that.  That being said, we are at the top of our food chain.  Homosexuality is a natural development to keep our population in check.  Frogs have been known to outright change sex when situations in nature arise.  We only have war, attrition, famine, and disease to keep our population in check.  We have no real natural preditors anymore.  It is a necessary balance to maintain Malthusian Theory.  This balance is necessary else we breed ourselves to death.
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7006
So your saying that evolution can see the future? The population of earth just reached 1 billion in 1802. I think people who dont believe in God and think that we evolved gotta think its a choice or something. It doesnt reproduce and it wouldnt be around today if we evolved.

The bible doesnt say people cant feel attracted to the same sex, it just says not to act on it.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6861|949

Malthus' theory is held in check by technology more than anything else. 

As for JamDude, you do not make sense.  I am sitting here trying to make some sort of argument or statement out of your post, but I cannot.  I personally do not think homosexuality is a choice, one of the reasons being I have a hard time believing that someone would subject themselves to the hatred and bigotry towards homos that is prevelant in our culture.

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