Possibility of Immortality?

2006-06-21 08:47:38

#1

xX[Elangbam]Xx: Member; +107|6927

I remember reading on one of TIME's last page essays of talk about headless mice...and men. Turned out some stereotypical crazy scientist cloned headless mice and of course due to lack of oxygen they died instantly. Near the end of the page the author stated that if headless men were created immortality could be a possibility.

You see if you take off your head (with your brain being your "soul and inner self" because of your sub conscious and its conscious part) and put it onto your cloned headless self and somehow attach it correctly, you could keep on living. Or perhaps forget the headless party and just transport the brain somehow and connect the nerves?

Is it possible? Is it likely? But for all those EWTN people, is it ethical?

2006-06-21 08:49:01

#2

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6771|Texas - Bigger than France

No head = no sniping = no fun

2006-06-21 08:53:57

#3

=OBS= EstebanRey: Member; +256|6779|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

Sorry to be pedantic but "immortality" is impossible because it implies nothing can kill you, not even a nuclear bomb. I think you mean the ability to not die because of old age. However, I have seen quite a few documentaries on this subject and natural death has nothing to do with oxegen butr to do with our DNA. I don't see how a headless man would get around the DNA aspect....

2006-06-21 08:57:34

#4

spastic bullet: would like to know if you are on crack; +77|6770|vancouver

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
... I don't see how a headless man would get around the DNA aspect....

With some difficulty, I would imagine.

2006-06-21 09:00:08

#5

xX[Elangbam]Xx: Member; +107|6927

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic but "immortality" is impossible because it implies nothing can kill you, not even a nuclear bomb. I think you mean the ability to not die because of old age. However, I have seen quite a few documentaries on this subject and natural death has nothing to do with oxegen butr to do with our DNA. I don't see how a headless man would get around the DNA aspect....

Immortality is endless life I didn't say a headless man for all its life. transport hte head

Last edited by xX[Elangbam]Xx (2006-06-21 09:00:42)

2006-06-21 09:05:04

#6

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6771|Texas - Bigger than France

-No more knockouts if you are a boxer

-Easier to get into bars with driver's license

-Less likely to be ridiculed by friends for hooking up with an ugly chick

-I can finally admit "I love you for your body" and not get slapped

-"Getting some Head" takes on a new meaning...wait a minute having no Head sucks. I want Head. Gimmee Head.

2006-06-21 09:12:54

#7

uber73: Member; +188|6981|Brisbane

when u die of old age, u die from cellular wear and tear.

your cells divide throughout the course of your life, and one of the current fields of research is into this mitotic cellular division process. they say that, over the couse of a lifetime, the average genetic material can divide, oh, i cant remember, say 20 times, and once u start getting into the high teens of this, u are likely to succumb to "old age" death, unless u have already died of heart attack, stroke, cancer etc etc..

although brain and nervous tissue is slightly different to that of normal body tissue, the same underlying premise still applies... ie, your cells have a clock in them that is running from the day u are conceived.

to transplant a head would be:
a) impossible, for how the hell can they realign and attach a severed spinal column,
b) impossible, for the arteries/veins that feed the brain, and also muscle in your face and head would suffer from cellular aging anyway,
c) ridiculous, as you would be attaching an ever aging head onto a "young" body.. secksy or what.

2006-06-21 09:16:41

#8

PuckMercury: 6 x 9 = 42; +298|6756|Portland, OR USA

well cloning with a head would imply cloning with a brain, which would certainly introduce a major morality issue into the mix. Unless you're talking about cloning w/o a brain but WITH a head ... which confuses me.

So, to that end, transplanting the head would give you a new body but not a new head ... which would continue to age. As the head serves as the housing for the brain, I would imagine the creep of age would still find you in the end. I don't have enough knowledge on the affects of time on the brain iteself other than the deterioration that is prone at old age to mental and general critical thinking. So, even if the brain remained physically intact, you would end up a vegetable. There are so many activities that "kill brain cells" such as even drinking that you may just end up killing them all off anyway as they are not prone to heal or reproduce.

I think Ghost in the Shell has it right. I don't know how digitizing the soul would work, nor do I pretend to know what the soul is. However, from a biological and technical standpoint, I think the idea of a digital mind and body is more likely to achieve immortality than this particular idea.

2006-06-21 09:19:19

#9

Towelly: It's A State Of Mind; +399|6820|Your attic

I'd say that rather than entire head transplants, it might be possible to do brain transplants in the future. The main problem would be doing it quick enough that the brain would not run out of oxygen and die itself, also that would mean that the subject would have to be living while the operation was being carried out, therefore decreasing the likelyhood that people would want to attempt such a risky procedure. Lastly cloning really isn't anywhere near that, not matter what the press thinks, to make a fully functioning human clone (without a brain) that doesn't suffer from rapid cell depletion will require a lot more work than it takes to make a sheep (or mouse in this instance) that dies so quickly.

Sure its possible, but just not for a hundred years or something

Last edited by Towelly (2006-06-21 09:21:05)

2006-06-21 09:58:22

#10

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6771|Texas - Bigger than France

Towelly wrote:
I'd say that rather than entire head transplants, it might be possible to do brain transplants in the future. The main problem would be doing it quick enough that the brain would not run out of oxygen and die itself, also that would mean that the subject would have to be living while the operation was being carried out, therefore decreasing the likelyhood that people would want to attempt such a risky procedure. Lastly cloning really isn't anywhere near that, not matter what the press thinks, to make a fully functioning human clone (without a brain) that doesn't suffer from rapid cell depletion will require a lot more work than it takes to make a sheep (or mouse in this instance) that dies so quickly.

Sure its possible, but just not for a hundred years or something

I'd love to have my brain put into a sheep someday - imagine how much wool I'd get. (sorry, had to)

Actually:
If you haven't checked it out yet - the movie Vanilla Sky on this topic.

Interesting thing about the concept of immortality - if you look at how writers approach the topic - those who want to be immortal or maintain immortality = evil, while those who give up immortality = good.

Some examples: Tolkein books, Narnia, The Green Mile, The Matrix, and from greek mythos - Atlas and the guy who had to roll the boulder up the mountain, and the bible.

What makes this so interesting is maybe delaying death is a morality question.

2006-06-21 10:57:01

#11

xX[Elangbam]Xx: Member; +107|6927

Pug wrote:
-No more knockouts if you are a boxer

-Easier to get into bars with driver's license

-Less likely to be ridiculed by friends for hooking up with an ugly chick

-I can finally admit "I love you for your body" and not get slapped

-"Getting some Head" takes on a new meaning...wait a minute having no Head sucks. I want Head. Gimmee Head.

do you understand what the phrase: "putting your head onto a headless clone" means? It mean you have your head on a different body. I thought people would've grasped that part already

2006-06-21 10:59:54

#12

PuckMercury: 6 x 9 = 42; +298|6756|Portland, OR USA

I'd generally agree with you, Pug. Personally I have no desire to delay or cheat death. However, I find the subject interesting. <shrug>

2006-06-21 11:13:06

#13

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6771|Texas - Bigger than France

xX[Elangbam]Xx wrote:
Pug wrote:
-No more knockouts if you are a boxer

-Easier to get into bars with driver's license

-Less likely to be ridiculed by friends for hooking up with an ugly chick

-I can finally admit "I love you for your body" and not get slapped

-"Getting some Head" takes on a new meaning...wait a minute having no Head sucks. I want Head. Gimmee Head.
do you understand what the phrase: "putting your head onto a headless clone" means? It mean you have your head on a different body. I thought people would've grasped that part already

Exactly my point - Head = Good.

2006-06-21 22:07:50

#14

BVC: Member; +325|6924

Isn't there an "immortal tumor cell" in a lab somewhere thats been taken from a human? I can't remember the name or anything, but I believe the telomeres don't decay..

2006-06-22 06:02:46

#15

uber73: Member; +188|6981|Brisbane

Pubic wrote:
Isn't there an "immortal tumor cell" in a lab somewhere thats been taken from a human? I can't remember the name or anything, but I believe the telomeres don't decay..

its called "watching too much XFiles"

2006-06-22 17:58:38

#16

Tetrino: International OMGWTFBBQ; +200|6960|Uhh... erm...

Pubic wrote:
Isn't there an "immortal tumor cell" in a lab somewhere thats been taken from a human? I can't remember the name or anything, but I believe the telomeres don't decay..

I think those are HeLa cells. And no matter how many times your brain is transplanted from body to body, you'll eventually get Alzheimer's or some other form of dementia.

2006-06-22 18:25:45

#17

TrollmeaT: Aspiring Objectivist; +492|6901|Colorado

We are already immortal in a sense moving from place to place experiencing what we need to this time around. The part that is unfortunate is that we are reset each time.

2006-06-24 11:03:33

#18

Bubbalo: The Lizzard; +541|6790

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic but "immortality" is impossible because it implies nothing can kill you, not even a nuclear bomb.

Uh, actually, I'm pretty sure that that's a no. The Greek gods, for example, were immortal, but could be killed. They just didn't grow old and die. I'm not sure if there's even a term for unkillable.......undying I guess would cover it..........

2006-06-24 12:39:44