BF2S Forums Opinions of President Bush, now and then...

dshak wrote:

Seperate post, because the last one was running too many responses together... again to pfc...

I'm pretty intensely educated on this subject, I won't contest the existence of an american nazi party during world war II, but to say it played ANY role in keeping the U.S. out of the war is absurd. I really have to disagree with you on that one. if you want I can list several dozen reasons of why it took us so long to enter the war, and the "influence" of an american nazi party not only doesn't make the list, its not even in the same book. To say it had that much pull is some pretty radical history based on pretty much nothing factual at all.

From what I have learned about it, it was MEANT to keep the U.S out of the war, but Never gained any ground.
I just have my few years of highschool history , and a few college courses and of course the History Channel.
Yeah, got it from the History Channel.  They were talking about the history of hate groups in the U.S.  And one of them covered was the American Nazi Party, which was in contact with Hitler loosely and was meant to keep the U.S out of the war, but never gained any ground.

I might be wrong, but History Channel owns me.

nzjafa wrote:

the_heart_attack wrote:

well im no expert on us politics but i dont reckon he will get elected again........

it's his second term, so he can't get elected again anyway.

here in new zealand he is widely hated too. i myself think he's a moron.
i realise that if the US didn't stop saddam no-one would have... but the iraq war is a mess. i got friends who fought in afghan, and that was a mess too.
i think that he has trouble making decisions for himself, and when he does, they seem to do more harm than good. i'm looking foward to the new president because any new wars will probably mean my ass getting sent over to fight in them.
i'd give my life for the motherland in a second, provided i knew why, and that what i was doing would benefit my country.... but i dont see many of the things the US has done have been justified at all.

an interesting fact. in the iraq war the american army shot down only one plane. it was british and had 12 people aboard. nice one.

Wow another moron!  Have you ever been in a war? A battle even? A skirmish?  War is hell... enough said.  For someone to call it a 'mess' is an understatement.  Enlist and go fight somewhere and I promise you will have more respect for the military.  And video games don't count.

pdanrichey wrote:

Bush is awesome.  One of the main reasons he is awesome is because he's not a democrat.

Yeah, there are some powerful minds at work in this thread.

Homeschtar wrote:

I have always disliked Bush. First of all, I completely disagree wth the Iraqi War. No WMD's, and now that we took away all the Iraqi citizen's weapons, they won't have anything to defend themselves with after we leave. Also, Bush has put us into the BIGGEST DEFICIT IN HISTORY. And he got there from one of the largest surplus' in history. And I'm not against tax cuts, but if he doesn't raise taxes he'll never pay it off. So then he'll leave it for the next president to fix, and the next president will be criticized for raising taxes. Not only that, he is a complete idiot. And represents all of America as a complete idiot.

A) We didnt take their weapons at all, they are allowed 1 AK per household, no shit.

B) War leads directly to deficit, personally, I think it was a worthy cause, others don't.

C) No politican has ever run on the platform of paying off the national debt, and none will, why? I dont know, cause they are fucking idiots most likely.  Clinton got us a minor surplus, that's true, but it still wouldn't have paid off the debt for a very long time.  Id love to see it gone though, 25% of our taxes goes to nothing, just paying the interest only, ridiculous.

D) 1)  We often represent ourselves as idiots due to our own ignorance and arrogance, it has nothing to do with the President.
2)  I agree, Bush does not carry the super cultured appearance that many politicians do, but I really don't care about world perception, when we Americans have to deal with candidates based on issues, and given the last 2 election cycles, Bush was the best man for the job.  OK, not the best man, the better than the other option man, cause Kerry and Gore were both terrible.

Last edited by redfoxster (2005-11-09 12:07:14)

thanks for the kind words. the reason the fox and the shak can actually debate one another is because to an extent, they agree to disagree and are willing to hear (AND CONSIDER, as opposed to just yelling about) opinions other than their own without flipping out.

i'm not an ultra liberal, just like you guys don't consider yourselves ultra conservatives, but a liberal I am non the less, and its nice to be able to have a true debate on a subject. generally speaking I don't usually even keep reading posts if they begin with "you are an idiot" or "you're stupid," with the exception being that one fox posted in response to the great norad conspiracy and 9/11... pretty sure that guy WAS an idiot.

Fox and I had some heated moments of debate as well, but in the end I think I said some things that made him think "you know that IS a good point," and he definitely had more than his share of points that made me do the same. I'm generally speaking to the left, but moderate on most issues as fox said, and I even fall to the right on some as well... but I do fly way left on more than one or two points, and if that makes me a liberal, just tell me when the meetings are and where to get my name tag.

Fox I was just WAITING for you to comment about the guy from new zealand who is worried about fighting america's wars... or perhaps you did and I missed it. Cut him some slack, we all know if it wasn't for the tens (probably a  literal figure) of New Zealanders in Iraq and Afghanistan the US body count would be much higher!

Last edited by dshak (2005-11-09 13:56:03)

j5f5ff wrote:

how do you turn a $3 TRILLION surplus into a 460 billion DEFICIT????!  he's at his best when he's sleeping.

rofl, the current US debt is like 15 trillion I think, and the federal government's gross total of income is like 1.3 trillion I want to say, so how exactly did we have a 3 trillion dollar surplus? check your numbers please, and then get back to us

dshak wrote:

thanks for the kind words. the reason the fox and the shak can actually debate one another is because to an extent, they agree to disagree and are willing to hear (AND CONSIDER, as opposed to just yelling about) opinions other than their own without flipping out.

i'm not an ultra liberal, just like you guys don't consider yourselves ultra conservatives, but a liberal I am non the less, and its nice to be able to have a true debate on a subject. generally speaking I don't usually even keep reading posts if they begin with "you are an idiot" or "you're stupid," with the exception being that one fox posted in response to the great norad conspiracy and 9/11... pretty sure that guy WAS an idiot.

Fox and I had some heated moments of debate as well, but in the end I think I said some things that made him think "you know that IS a good point," and he definitely had more than his share of points that made me do the same. I'm generally speaking to the left, but moderate on most issues as fox said, and I even fall to the right on some as well... but I do fly way left on more than one or two points, and if that makes me a liberal, just tell me when the meetings are and where to get my name tag.

Fox I was just WAITING for you to comment about the guy from new zealand who is worried about fighting america's wars... or perhaps you did and I missed it. Cut him some slack, we all know if it wasn't for the tens (probably a  literal figure) of New Zealanders in Iraq and Afghanistan the US body count would be much higher!

I was looking for his post after I saw your comments about it, but I didnt see it, sounds like you nailed it on the head though.  Have you seen the intelligent Design thread in the current events area? I'd love to see what you have to say on that one.

And yes, Dshak has definetly said a lot of things that made me think, and reevalute why I was defending a position, as have several other people in this thread, to all of you, I say thank you, ya'll are the reason I love forums like this one.

dshak wrote:

I can't resist....

we didn't shoot any planes down because what few there were were destroyed on the ground before the Iraqies even knew there was a war. If there were planes that survived they never got airborn because most of the Iraqi pilots deserted, guess they didn't want to dogfight against Superhornets in their crop dusters. say what you want about bush, but I wouldn't take any pot shots at the U.S. military, I'm pretty sure the Conneticut national guard could take New Zealand if they had to.

In closing... your ass being sent over to fight them??? You are right, the U.S. definitely relies too much on troops from NEW ZEALAND in its military operations.

WHAT!?!?!

you're right, the conneticut national guard would have our country in 5 minutes. our army consists of about 10,000 men, one of our last surviving frigates was just sunk a few months ago, and in some stroke of genius we sold all but one of our combat aircraft to samoa, of all places.

the army did shoot down that plane, it was all over the news here. i guess the union jack on the tail must have been hard to recongnise. or the fact that (as you said) the iraqis didnt have any planes. who else do you think could have owned it?

i know they don't rely on us at all, but that doesnt mean we don't get worried about being killed. the anzacs have fought in all of the wars from 1914 onward, and each time our economy and birthrate gets fucked over because we hardly have any people here anyway.

luckily, we only sustained one casualty in iraq. it was a engineer from my city, who got shot in the ass by his american escorts because they thought he was republican guard.

I think Bush sucks a fatty, but i dont really want to talk about it anymore becuase it just gets me pissed off.

Interesting thing:

Go to Google and search the word 'failure'.  Then check out the first link.

TrevorP wrote:

I personally this bush is a complete moron...and that clinton was a god in comparison (not saying Clinton is a god). Bush is ignorant about global warming and the environment.

Ohh PS: the Iraqi war was stupid and illegal...as were the softwood lumber terrifs.

Noted?

For the record, I read this great article on yahoo talking about how green/renewable energy sources are growing at a rate of 20-30% worldwide, whereas gas and oil are at just 2-3%.  I dont know exactly what portion of tht is in the U.S. but Im gonna go out on a limb again and say that Bush's push for alternative fuels and renewable energy sources is a partial cause of this.  Evidence of this, the explosion of wind turbine construction in the U.S., literally hundreds I have personally witnessed going up in Texas.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

nzjafa wrote:

the_heart_attack wrote:

well im no expert on us politics but i dont reckon he will get elected again........

it's his second term, so he can't get elected again anyway.

here in new zealand he is widely hated too. i myself think he's a moron.
i realise that if the US didn't stop saddam no-one would have... but the iraq war is a mess. i got friends who fought in afghan, and that was a mess too.
i think that he has trouble making decisions for himself, and when he does, they seem to do more harm than good. i'm looking foward to the new president because any new wars will probably mean my ass getting sent over to fight in them.
i'd give my life for the motherland in a second, provided i knew why, and that what i was doing would benefit my country.... but i dont see many of the things the US has done have been justified at all.

an interesting fact. in the iraq war the american army shot down only one plane. it was british and had 12 people aboard. nice one.

Wow another moron!  Have you ever been in a war? A battle even? A skirmish?  War is hell... enough said.  For someone to call it a 'mess' is an understatement.  Enlist and go fight somewhere and I promise you will have more respect for the military.  And video games don't count.

have you? i know a firefight is anything but organised, and beleive me i know. but administratively, the war has been a massive screwup. i have respect for the military, but the US military... well ask anyone here, they've left us a little dissillusioned.
the whole thing was on false grounds anyway. weapons of mass destruction? yeah, your boys did a good job finding any. or any trace of any.

in new zealand there is a badge people wear, its quite popular. it has bush's face on it and it says "instant idiot- just add oil".. in my opinion i think the badge got it pretty close.

redfoxster wrote:

Lawk wrote:

I think Bush sucks a fatty, but i dont really want to talk about it anymore becuase it just gets me pissed off.

Interesting thing:

Go to Google and search the word 'failure'.  Then check out the first link.

I think (name of Politician I dont like0 sucks a fatty, but i really dont want to talk about it anymore because it just gets me pissed off.

Interesting thing:

Go to Google and search the word 'failure'.  Then check out the second link.

Go to the Google link http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2005/09/ … ilure.html for an explanation as the why that happens.

Yeah I didn't post that thinking they were directly related.  As in, "Hey Bush is a moron and here's the proof".  No no, I just thought it was a funny thing for people who haven't seen it before.  Although, I wasn't aware there was an actual term for it.  Apparently that term is  'Googlebombing'.

Hey,

I respect New Zealand, was just having some fun. After all you did give us Lord of the Rings. As for the plane we shot down, I never contradicted it. Friendly fire happens, even to the most sophisticated military in the world, though I have to say if anyone has ever read the briefing on Pat Tillmans death in Afghanistan, that wasn't sophisticated at all and SOMEONE should have been courtmarshalled for it... then again, slaughtering you own men.... having to live with that might be worse than a courtmarshall.

The idea behind Iraq as an illegal war is that the government "manufactured" evidence. Personally I don't believe that, I think it was just bad intelligence. I'm not going to rip on the CIA though, anyone who thinks their job is easy is out of their minds... like looking for a needle... in a stack of needles.

I think the reasons given by the administration for going to Iraq were at the least exagerated, to be honest I still think it was a just action. My only reservation is I wish Bush & Co. would have just come out and said "this guy is a limey bastard and he murderes his own people, I'm going to do what my dad SHOULD have done last time and finish the job." To me the administration could have stuck all that weapons of mass distruction crap in a closet, they only needed to say one word to get me on board - GENOCIDE.

It is BECAUSE I am a liberal that I support the second Iraqi ware, and here's why - I personally (note the word personally, not imposing my beliefs on anyone else) feel that if there is genocide taking place and you have the power to stop it (you being the U.S. in this case because other countries lack the ability, or in some cases the balls), but you don't do anything, you are as guilty as the one committing the crime.

I'm not talking about cultural differences or political rifts, I'm talking about the systematic and ruthless killing of a people based solely on their ethnicity. I don't think one person on this forum can tell me that it WASN'T happening in Iraq under Saddam Hussein, so my question to you all is.... you would have preffered to look the other way?

Finally, he brought it on himself, if hadn't been such a bitch and had cooperated with the UN in the first damn place Bush would never have had a case, full of holes or not, for the action. At least not the case he presented.

Now... whats this I read about intelligent design... haha

Last edited by dshak (2005-11-09 18:15:41)