you have much to learn, you're 14 and have, from what it sounds like, fairly conservative parents.. open your mind and stop talking out your assMiller wrote:
I'm 14...Liberal pukes can go and shoot themselves so they don't have to deal with the world, do what terrorists do, go kill yourselves, PLEASE!!!!
So true!King_County_Downy wrote:
If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry aboout. I don't see the big deal. I'd even go as far as to say that it's really for our own good. They aren't going to waste their time and money on 2 bit weed dealers or tuner guys rallying up for a street race. They're looking for murderers and terrorists. I welcome the new age of technology. Go for a walk on the beach if you want to talk in private about illegal sht. Right? Natural Selection stuff...
Conservative and criminally irresponsible, if what he says about his personal firearm is true.CommieChipmunk wrote:
you have much to learn, you're 14 and have, from what it sounds like, fairly conservative parents.. open your mind and stop talking out your assMiller wrote:
I'm 14...Liberal pukes can go and shoot themselves so they don't have to deal with the world, do what terrorists do, go kill yourselves, PLEASE!!!!
He's lying.
I live in same area.
Trust me.
I live in same area.
Trust me.
It may not be legally "his" yet, that doesn't mean his parents didn't give him one, I got my first shotgun when I was 11, my second when I was 12, some of my earliest memories are from going with my parents to the gun range when I was about 5-ish, and being taught to shoot a pistol @ 9, so what if he's mouthy, it's more irresponsible to avoid teaching your children about guns, those are the ones that get hurt or hurt someone else.....
I have to say though if the gun is unlocked under his bed isn't that stupid. I'd think so he's going to shoot his dad thinking he's the boogy man. But I can't belive that someone said that bush is going to use this responsibly? That's crazy talk, he's already using it, hence breaking the law set up by Citizens to protect the Citizens from an over controled government.
I love to say this to all you, "America Love it or Leave it". I don't want to be in a 1984 type era or my children to be in one as well or their children. We need to stop this fearfull type of government.
hey everyone your gas prices are high cause of the terrorist.
hey everyone the econimy is great because of our weapons industry is raking in so much loot.
One of the books I'm reading(I'll referance later) stated yesterday "well now that the cold war is over and we won. What did we win?"
I'll get more later.
I love to say this to all you, "America Love it or Leave it". I don't want to be in a 1984 type era or my children to be in one as well or their children. We need to stop this fearfull type of government.
hey everyone your gas prices are high cause of the terrorist.
hey everyone the econimy is great because of our weapons industry is raking in so much loot.
One of the books I'm reading(I'll referance later) stated yesterday "well now that the cold war is over and we won. What did we win?"
I'll get more later.
We won not going to war with the Soviet Union and blowing up the world.cpt.fass1 wrote:
"well now that the cold war is over and we won. What did we win?"
It was more or less talking in the referance that money that should have been going to the infasturcture of this country was going towards military contracts.
We didn't win anything.
We didn't win anything.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
It's funny that over 200 years later Benjamin Franklin still has reminders for us. None of us should want to allow our civil rights to be trampled on for the false hope that we'll be safe. We can both follow the dream of the constitution and still protect ourselves. Nothing should ever be worth giving up our freedoms, no matter the threat or possibility of violence.
Scotch
neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
It's funny that over 200 years later Benjamin Franklin still has reminders for us. None of us should want to allow our civil rights to be trampled on for the false hope that we'll be safe. We can both follow the dream of the constitution and still protect ourselves. Nothing should ever be worth giving up our freedoms, no matter the threat or possibility of violence.
Scotch
Well, if the guvment spies on my ass, then they are more than welcome to the view of my not chewed up very well apple after it shot out of my ass this morning.
I really need to learn to chew up fiber heavy fruits and veggies a little better...
But if the guvment wants to look at that, they are more than welcome to it.
I really need to learn to chew up fiber heavy fruits and veggies a little better...
But if the guvment wants to look at that, they are more than welcome to it.
Even if his parents gave him it, no one in their right mind would let a 14 year old kid keep a .45 under their bed. You are right, he is full of shit.yerded wrote:
14 and you keep a 45 under your bed and you live in Orange County? California?Miller wrote:
Ouch, not being able to defend yourself. Well, I'm 14, I own a 1911 Springfield armory Colt .45. I keep it under my bed, nice and ready for any idiot who decides this house is fair game. My dad has two or three pistols too, he carries pepper-spray, and me a knife. I take all I can to defend myself, and if the government taps my phone lines, so be it! Protect us so we don't have to ourselves. Good job Bush, do whatever you need to! Liberal pukes can go and shoot themselves so they don't have to deal with the world, do what terrorists do, go kill yourselves, PLEASE!!!!
Cmon, you can maybe pass that one off on the playground but not here.
Great job in convincing me you really are 14 though.
Remember Miller, there are people older than 14 on this forum that know what bullshit smells like. Thanks for showing people that young people aren't just liberal idiots, they are also conservative idiots.
haha young = idiot, nice but what about the spying?
Well, I don't have any problem with NSA spying on our activities, AS LONG AS THERE IS GOOD REASON TO. The problem I have with the domestic spying program is that it is being misused. The government condones this spying program by saying that it is needed to combat terrorism. If that is the case, why are the activities not used for antiterrorism? Much if not most of the wiretaps and such were/are not used to combat terrorism in any way shape or form. I think the government made a calculated decision stating that wiretaps were needed for battling terrorism, but using them for other things, mostly because they knew the American public would be outraged to learn that our government is illegally listening in and recording our lives. Like I said before, I do not have a problem with wiretaps and ISP data mining, as long as it is being used for the stated objective, not to root out some pothead who sells weed to the local college population.
How do you know that the program is being misused? There hasn't been much information besides insider leaks and the congressional hearings, including the full briefing from two weeks ago. Since the New York Times was sitting on this story for almost a year, at the administration's request, I can only imagine that any illegal portions of the program have been shut down, if they exsisted at all. However there is still no longterm congressional oversight and little factual knowledge of how the program has been implimented. It's a pretty easy equation... American Citizen = No Tap Without Warrant.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Well, I don't have any problem with NSA spying on our activities, AS LONG AS THERE IS GOOD REASON TO. The problem I have with the domestic spying program is that it is being misused. The government condones this spying program by saying that it is needed to combat terrorism. If that is the case, why are the activities not used for antiterrorism? Much if not most of the wiretaps and such were/are not used to combat terrorism in any way shape or form. I think the government made a calculated decision stating that wiretaps were needed for battling terrorism, but using them for other things, mostly because they knew the American public would be outraged to learn that our government is illegally listening in and recording our lives. Like I said before, I do not have a problem with wiretaps and ISP data mining, as long as it is being used for the stated objective, not to root out some pothead who sells weed to the local college population.
Don't misread this post, you're on the right track especially with the "terror, terror" talk. On top of the BS, Gonzalez is waging a battle on the constitution as we know it in an effort to boost the president's powers. It makes me wonder what the Bush supporters are going to do when, thanks to them, a more powerfull Democratic President comes into office. Unless of course Bush intends to break the constitution by issuing himself a pass for a third term, then a fourth..
Meanwhile, the Washington Post is reporting that the NSA passed on records of intercepted email and phone calls to other government agencies including the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the CIA and the Department of Homeland Security. This news come on the heels of several other reports that the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force, military intelligence and local police departments have all been engaged in monitoring peaceful groups including Greenpeace, PETA - the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, Catholic Worker, anti-war groups and even bicyclists in New York City. During the 1960s and 1970s, the military used NSA intercepts to maintain files on U.S. peace activists. It was this domestic surveillance that led Congress to intervene and pass Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 in order to prevent future such abuses. The statute permits domestic intelligence surveillance with the approval of a court order from the FISA court.-F8-Scotch wrote:
How do you know that the program is being misused?
from http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? … 03/1435201
Reminds me of COINTELPRO.
Does anyone here really think there is currently or will ever be a gov't that doesn't keep tabs on it's peeps? Any group can and should be monitored to some extent, especially such peaceful groups like PETA and Greenpeace that have caused millions of dollars worth of property damage. Hell not too long ago I watched a Greenpeace speaker at a college giving instructions on how to make Molotov cocktails. As for the internment camps, I read anything I find on a wikipedia (what the fuck is that supposed to mean anyway?) with a high level of skepticism, whether or not it supports my views. If it is true and they do exist, I think they need more of them, 2 million is rather optimistic in the light of things like the "Republica del Norte" movement, and the "don't drink from the white fountain" post.
I love how everyone is critiscizing conservatives for what they can only speculate, while the oft praised Roosevelt and such is known to have interred US citizens for having slanted eyes, opening and reading every peace of mail sent to and from soldiers and such.
powerful Democratic president= oxymoron, at least in the last 4 decades, every Democrat is at the beck and call of the DNC, except the ostracized few like Zell Miller that make their (DNC) practices public
I love how everyone is critiscizing conservatives for what they can only speculate, while the oft praised Roosevelt and such is known to have interred US citizens for having slanted eyes, opening and reading every peace of mail sent to and from soldiers and such.
powerful Democratic president= oxymoron, at least in the last 4 decades, every Democrat is at the beck and call of the DNC, except the ostracized few like Zell Miller that make their (DNC) practices public
So your for governments spying on the people Kracker?
I used "spies" in the title to catch people's attention, I feel there is a need to "monitor", not "spy", as for the handling of the difference between the two that's why we elect officials every 2 years in the hopes we've found someone we can trust to make these decisions since we can't all have super top secret clearance and decoder rings. That would be the hard part, it's not perfect, but it's the best damn system the human race is ever going to see. Why is it libs offer so many critiscism and no viable alternatives? and from what I understand, yes, Canada did intercept emails and phone calls, and yes there is precedent for Bush's actions dating back to at least WW1.cpt.fass1 wrote:
So your for governments spying on the people Kracker?
Wait, uh, I mean "no spying or monitoring ever!".
I will save you from MANBEARPIG!
Thank me for inventing the internet by voting for kr@cker below!
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=28058
Last edited by kr@cker (2006-06-06 14:06:35)
A few groups that should be on the monitor list thenkr@cker wrote:
Any group can and should be monitored to some extent, especially such peaceful groups like PETA and Greenpeace that have caused millions of dollars worth of property damage.
Project For A New American Century
Carlyle Group
Tavistock Institute
Trilateral Commission
Council On Foreign Relations
The World Bank
International Monetary Fund
World Trade Organization
Bohemian Grove (No Link)
Bilderberg Group (No Link)
Edit: Added the IMF, World Bank, and WTO.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-06-06 14:16:18)
Ok it's really not lib to think that the government shouldn't be spying on it people. Kracker I think if you don't like how our country was created just leave. America Love it or leave it you frecking communist.
Ha! first time i've ever been called a commie! Franklin didn't have to deal with people using the internet to blow Americans up randomly. Please re-read my last post til you notice I distinguish between monitoring and wanton spying and....ah......forget it.
At least neg me, I can't seem to get rid of my karma...
At least neg me, I can't seem to get rid of my karma...
Here is a liberal alternative to the NSA program:kr@cker wrote:
I used "spies" in the title to catch people's attention, I feel there is a need to "monitor", not "spy", as for the handling of the difference between the two that's why we elect officials every 2 years in the hopes we've found someone we can trust to make these decisions since we can't all have super top secret clearance and decoder rings. That would be the hard part, it's not perfect, but it's the best damn system the human race is ever going to see. Why is it libs offer so many critiscism and no viable alternatives? and from what I understand, yes, Canada did intercept emails and phone calls, and yes there is precedent for Bush's actions dating back to at least WW1.cpt.fass1 wrote:
So your for governments spying on the people Kracker?
GET WARRANTS FIRST!!!
I'm not sure if my whole emotion came out there but I think it's pretty clear. There is no reason why the DOJ can't get warrants. They employee how many legal folks as well as the nation's personal defense teams? It's moronic to think that one of the most important apparati in America can't take 10 mins to write up a warrant request, spend 20 more mins. in a car going to the judge, then spend 1/2 hour talking out thier case to the FISA court, judge..whatever. Obviously I have no idea of the actual process yet the NSA has 72 (or 48, either way) hours to get together a request and all the while they can tap till thier hearts content.
We aren't talking about tapping terrorists out in the field who are so far removed from an American citizenry it's not even funny. As FISA, and the expanded explanation of the law surrounding electronic foriegn intelligence gathering techniques from the GPO, requires that any time an American "protected person" is overheard during a wiretap that wiretap ends untill a warrant is aquired, or until the AG signs off. How is that not clear or concise? I can give you links, quotes..whatever.
This whole War Powers trip is BS. Quote all the party rhetoric you'd like but then explain to me how 21st century technology, techniques and skills have anything to do with WW1 or WW2. In fact we haven't even declared war since WW2. We can look at the War Powers Act but that really doesn't define anything in relation to foreign intelligence gathering or the breech of constitutional rights during war time. There's no clear explanation, yet I reiterate that the muddy waters make either a pro or con determination almost impossible.
Do you know if Canada had warrants, if the targets of the wiretapping were Canadian citizens, whether the tap ocurred during an international call or if any of the internet traffic was open to public domain? Do you have a complete understanding of Canada's foreign intelligence gathering laws or even America's laws governing as such?
My appologies if I come off strong on this issue, I don't intend any personal attacks nor do I wish to hurt feelings. I've done quite a bit of personal research on this issue, I also trust my elected representative who continues to fight the legality of this program. I believe it's wrong, I also believe it to be necessary. Therefore reigning this program into the legal boundaries of the constitution is the only option why hasn't the administration chosen to do this yet?
I think its kind of funny how people are getting in such an uprise about how the government is "breaking the law" spying on Americans and listening to phone calls. Big freakin deal. This isnt the first time the government has been "above the law" to do stuff. The government IS the law, they can do as they please. I hate to say it, but everyone knows it, and its nothing new. But its all Bushs fault <sarcasm>. So was hurricane Katrina and the Tsunami a year ago . I agree with downy, if youve got nothing to hide, why make such a big deal about it. Just because the government hears about how your cheating on your wife doesnt mean they are going to run and tattle on you. They want stuff that is useful, that the U.S. can benefit from such as finding terrorists like Canada just did. Grow up, and grow some balls. Whoever said it, your 100% right that 3 guys with knives shouldnt have been able to take over a full airliner.
Dude if the shoe fits wear it. You want more government control which is very lib of you, do you also want the government to help you cross the road.kr@cker wrote:
Ha! first time i've ever been called a commie! Franklin didn't have to deal with people using the internet to blow Americans up randomly. Please re-read my last post til you notice I distinguish between monitoring and wanton spying and....ah......forget it.
At least neg me, I can't seem to get rid of my karma...
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2006-06-06 14:49:45)
Some how, we are in complete agreement. The problem with the 72 hour thing is that, well damn can't say that or they'll flag me, but let's just say alot can happen in 72 hours, for now, until we (the entire world) can get a handle on things, I'd rather err on the side of "not dead", though nothing scares me more than a "minority report" type of society. I doubt it will ever come to that. Then I truly would rather err on the side of "dead".-F8-Scotch wrote:
I believe it's wrong, I also believe it to be necessary.
As for being a commie, you'll be hard pressed to find a prouder American.
As for the knives on the airliner, now that we know about the new way to use planes as weapons, I doubt that will ever happen again.
You can cross streets?!
Last edited by kr@cker (2006-06-06 14:42:21)