wow close poll
Poll
Is nationalism a disease?
| Yes. | 35% | 35% - 35 | ||||
| No. | 39% | 39% - 39 | ||||
| Yours is; ours is justified patriotism. | 26% | 26% - 26 | ||||
| Total: 100 | ||||||
I agree, when you have a reason to.......Defending our country and our way of life should never be debatable.Snowmanimal wrote:
Think for yourself, question authority....
America
Live Free or Die
Last edited by lowing (2006-06-01 20:10:01)
the same has been said about religion, al-queda doesn't have a country to have nationalism for.*=]AD[=*Pro_NL wrote:
there wouldnt be war if nationalism didnt exist!
Not enought said because I have no respect for the UN cause I think they cause more deaths then they help with, how the hell do we have people pracitcly in charge of the world with there thumbs in there asses half the time.-Solv3r- wrote:
Well, the country I live in has actually been named as the best country to live in, by the UN.
Enough said...
Exatly my thoughts.lowing wrote:
isn't it awesome that we have men and women in uniform, that has fought and are willing to fight for you to feel that way, even when you are not willing to?Marconius wrote:
I greatly dislike Nationalism. It gives the rest of our society a bad name...
God I love America!!
Its not nationalism or religion that causes wars. IT IS EXTREMISM. People who constanly think they are the "supperior" race or w/e. But marconius, you need to understand that being patriotic is a good thing. Your acting like we are all/most of us are saying "May God bless America and noone else" but that is not the truth. If there is anyone like that it is some Europeans and Liberals who consantly act like America can be compaired to terrorist almost. Its crazy how screwed up some peoples minds can be. You need to understand that most people do not think that Americans are a superior race. Hell, if there wasnt patriotism/nationalism we would all be speaking German/Japanize/Russian/ect.
if you are American you deserve to die. if not you dont need to know=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:
?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
dont tread on me
Being proud of your countryand letting others know it. How's that?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
The definition of nationalism is too broad for this poll.
I don't suppose that you have actually taken the action of making such a claim, but only that you have inferred such with your petty "scoffing" towards Marconius.lowing wrote:
I have never claimed to be superior to anyone except those that seek out innocent civilians for murder in the name of anything, and those that will not stand up and defend themselves against such attacks.Xietsu wrote:
LmaO. That was the most fucked up sentence construction I've seen in awhile man, but after a moment of deciphering, I got what you mean. But anyways, Marconius isn't identifying parameters for his enlistment, he is talking about the manner in which one references the concept of enrollment in ones military service. It's this type of bemused, superiorist attitude that many Americans have when it comes to another's perception differing in even the slightest degree that causes blanket hatred from other countries (although, those that partake in such stereotyping have little to say for themselves, either).
Sorry for my sentence structure, I will review my School House Rock tapes again. It got late last night and I stopped just before Conjunction Junction.
What the fuck? What the hell is with you? Where did this come from?stryyker wrote:
if you are American you deserve to die. if not you dont need to know=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:
?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
dont tread on me
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-01 21:46:22)
I don't think nationalism is bad, in fact I support my country. It's when you go from loving your country to hating everyone elses that there is a problem.
Figured everyone would've caught my meaning, but no. There are many types of nationalism which cannot be rightly put under the single roof of a one-category poll. Examples have already been mentioned.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Being proud of your countryand letting others know it. How's that?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
The definition of nationalism is too broad for this poll.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-06-01 22:13:00)
well, over here in germany, most people have a slight problem with nationalism, mainly because of our specific history in that regard. Being proud of your country and open about it can be difficult.
Even if the general public reckognizes that today's generation has nothing to do with the Nazis, most will still say that nationalism only leads to problems and that it's better to keep a low profile.
To me, nationalism implies not only that you are proud of your country, but also that you believe it is superior to other countries. I'd rather call it "Love for your country", without putting everybody else down at the same time.
Moreover, I have difficulties understanding how people can be proud of something like a country.
To me, one can only be proud of things he has done / accomplished himself.
A country is a symbol, with certain ideals and values, that come from its specific history. You might say you support those or that you love them, but can you rightfully say you are proud ?
I'd say no, unless you were involved in its creation. At least in theory.
On the other hand, pride is an emotion, and cannot be rationalized. Most americans will feel proud about their country's and fellow countrymen's achievements, even if they had nothing to do with that personally. A lot of their identity is drawn from that.
I wonder what social mechanisms are behind that.
Personally, I'd not be willing to take credit for what other germans have done in the past, be it good or bad.
National Identity is a difficult topic.
Even if the general public reckognizes that today's generation has nothing to do with the Nazis, most will still say that nationalism only leads to problems and that it's better to keep a low profile.
To me, nationalism implies not only that you are proud of your country, but also that you believe it is superior to other countries. I'd rather call it "Love for your country", without putting everybody else down at the same time.
Moreover, I have difficulties understanding how people can be proud of something like a country.
To me, one can only be proud of things he has done / accomplished himself.
A country is a symbol, with certain ideals and values, that come from its specific history. You might say you support those or that you love them, but can you rightfully say you are proud ?
I'd say no, unless you were involved in its creation. At least in theory.
On the other hand, pride is an emotion, and cannot be rationalized. Most americans will feel proud about their country's and fellow countrymen's achievements, even if they had nothing to do with that personally. A lot of their identity is drawn from that.
I wonder what social mechanisms are behind that.
Personally, I'd not be willing to take credit for what other germans have done in the past, be it good or bad.
National Identity is a difficult topic.
The Dictionary wrote:
na•tion•al•ism
1. The willingness to sacrifice oneself for their country.
2. The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other.
3. The aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination.
4. The doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals.
I think you just wanna stir the pot but are just too lazy to put your opinion in. Anyways I like my definition.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Figured everyone would've caught my meaning, but no. There are many types of nationalism which cannot be rightly put under the single roof of a one-category poll. Examples have already been mentioned.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Being proud of your countryand letting others know it. How's that?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
The definition of nationalism is too broad for this poll.
I have a problem with it and it doesn't make me racist and here's why. The word "proud" is the defining factor in this case as by definition you can only have pride in an achievement or something that is overall better than its competitors.kr@cker wrote:
I'm also proud of being white, if you got a problem with it, doesn't that make YOU the racist?
In my view, people of all skin colours are equal and by saying you are proud to be white/black/yellow you are actually saying that your race is better than the majority. Think about it, try and start a sentence with "I'm proud...." and choose anything you like but it will never be negative or equal to its comparatitive subjects.
P.S. I'm white also
Yeah I agree with that. I wouldn't be proud of anything I didn't earn and I didn't earn white skin.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I have a problem with it and it doesn't make me racist and here's why. The word "proud" is the defining factor in this case as by definition you can only have pride in an achievement or something that is overall better than its competitors.kr@cker wrote:
I'm also proud of being white, if you got a problem with it, doesn't that make YOU the racist?
In my view, people of all skin colours are equal and by saying you are proud to be white/black/yellow you are actually saying that your race is better than the majority. Think about it, try and start a sentence with "I'm proud...." and choose anything you like but it will never be negative or equal to its comparatitive subjects.
P.S. I'm white also
Not necessarily such in the contexts of racial ethnicity, as, were you to say I'm "proud to be Irish", it would be a reference to the heritage and culture associated with those people. That isn't to say that it is a superior culture to that of another ethnic race, but just that you like having affiliation with some of the characteristics exclusive to that group. Just becaues someone has an affinity for a particular something doesn't mean that they actually have a stance -- other than that of neutrality -- in relation to comparative objects/subjects.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I have a problem with it and it doesn't make me racist and here's why. The word "proud" is the defining factor in this case as by definition you can only have pride in an achievement or something that is overall better than its competitors.kr@cker wrote:
I'm also proud of being white, if you got a problem with it, doesn't that make YOU the racist?
In my view, people of all skin colours are equal and by saying you are proud to be white/black/yellow you are actually saying that your race is better than the majority. Think about it, try and start a sentence with "I'm proud...." and choose anything you like but it will never be negative or equal to its comparatitive subjects.
P.S. I'm white also
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-02 03:37:00)
"I'M PROUD" of my kids even though they LOST their baseball game to a team that was BETTER than them.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I have a problem with it and it doesn't make me racist and here's why. The word "proud" is the defining factor in this case as by definition you can only have pride in an achievement or something that is overall better than its competitors.kr@cker wrote:
I'm also proud of being white, if you got a problem with it, doesn't that make YOU the racist?
In my view, people of all skin colours are equal and by saying you are proud to be white/black/yellow you are actually saying that your race is better than the majority. Think about it, try and start a sentence with "I'm proud...." and choose anything you like but it will never be negative or equal to its comparatitive subjects.
P.S. I'm white also
Hmmmmmmmmmm, I don't see a problem with having pride.
Now by all means,...........go ahead and explain to me why this sentence doesn't work, or count for your challenge.
Last edited by lowing (2006-06-02 03:47:53)
Well that sentence right there downright sucks in quite a variety of ways. If you want me to aid you in your formulation of a truly workable sentence, just let me know.lowing wrote:
Now by all means,...........go ahead and explain to me why this sentence doesn't work, or count for your challenge.
LOL thanks for the review........I really really need to break out my old School House Rock tapes.Xietsu wrote:
Well that sentence right there downright sucks in quite a variety of ways. If you want me to aid you in your formulation of a truly workable sentence, just let me know.lowing wrote:
Now by all means,...........go ahead and explain to me why this sentence doesn't work, or count for your challenge.
What action are you suggesting needs to be taken to feel morally superior to either of the groups I listed?Xietsu wrote:
I don't suppose that you have actually taken the action of making such a claim, but only that you have inferred such with your petty "scoffing" towards Marconius.lowing wrote:
I have never claimed to be superior to anyone except those that seek out innocent civilians for murder in the name of anything, and those that will not stand up and defend themselves against such attacks.Xietsu wrote:
LmaO. That was the most fucked up sentence construction I've seen in awhile man, but after a moment of deciphering, I got what you mean. But anyways, Marconius isn't identifying parameters for his enlistment, he is talking about the manner in which one references the concept of enrollment in ones military service. It's this type of bemused, superiorist attitude that many Americans have when it comes to another's perception differing in even the slightest degree that causes blanket hatred from other countries (although, those that partake in such stereotyping have little to say for themselves, either).
Sorry for my sentence structure, I will review my School House Rock tapes again. It got late last night and I stopped just before Conjunction Junction.What the fuck? What the hell is with you? Where did this come from?stryyker wrote:
if you are American you deserve to die. if not you dont need to know=TFF=Omen_NataS wrote:
?
Now this is not to say that you MUST be all four to be a nationalist, I don't seriously think most of the people here think that their nation is superior to another, except perhaps in regards to a nation like Darfur in the midst of ethnic cleansing and a gov't induced famine. No shit America's better than that, so is Sweden, Deutschland, Espana, etc. Definition one-no problem with that; def. 2- the fact that any culture thinks it is the best is usually the single greatest reason it's not, this thinking usually causes things like the dark ages and isolationism; def 3- no problem there, most of our nations have been in this situation; def 4- no shit, sure we should cooperate, but in the end Tony Blair is the PM of England, the goals of Canada are Canada's problem.Marconius wrote:
The Dictionary wrote:
na•tion•al•ism
1. The willingness to sacrifice oneself for their country.
2. The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other.
3. The aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination.
4. The doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals.
Perhaps to eliminate the confusion we should use patriotism instead.
To Schuss, please see my "FUCK EM ALL!" post, it's wrong that you've been taught to be ashamed of your nationality due to 2 decades or so in a history that spans hundreds of years, the German flag would make a great ass tattoo, with some practice, you could even make the eagle flap it's wings! You still have that eagle on there don't you? It's hard to keep a few hundred flags straight. Germany's great, I hope to go soon.
And it seems that most people are getting the point of my sig line, I'm not saying "I'm glad I'm not a damned spic" (I have a date with a nasty hot cuban this weekend!), I'm just saying that I'm proud of my white heritage, mostly Scotch/Irish and a lil German and Spanish. If James Brown can say it loud that he's black and he's proud, he can't tell me that I have to be ashamed of being white. This is the same basic issue with nationalism in this thread.
The problem with that is what exactly are you proud of? If you think about it when you say something like that in that context you are actually saying I am proud of "the effort" my kids put in even though they lost. You wouldn't say you were proud of the loss itself, agreed? Thus you are proud of a positive (their hard work) and not a negative.lowing wrote:
"I'M PROUD" of my kids even though they LOST their baseball game to a team that was BETTER than them.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I have a problem with it and it doesn't make me racist and here's why. The word "proud" is the defining factor in this case as by definition you can only have pride in an achievement or something that is overall better than its competitors.kr@cker wrote:
I'm also proud of being white, if you got a problem with it, doesn't that make YOU the racist?
In my view, people of all skin colours are equal and by saying you are proud to be white/black/yellow you are actually saying that your race is better than the majority. Think about it, try and start a sentence with "I'm proud...." and choose anything you like but it will never be negative or equal to its comparatitive subjects.
P.S. I'm white also
Hmmmmmmmmmm, I don't see a problem with having pride.
Now by all means,...........go ahead and explain to me why this sentence doesn't work, or count for your challenge.
A better example of what I'm trying to say would be if your kid got a D in school and you said you were proud of them. Again, you would be proud of the effort rather than the result because if you say "I'm proud my kid got a D" you are actaully saying you expected them to get a lower mark....
Hope that makes sense!!!!!
P.S. There is a difference between being happy or content and being prideful. I you say "I'm proud to be Irish" you are implying that you would not like to be another race and thus you must be, by definition, superior. I'm happy being Irish/white/black etc sounds better.
thanks for the kind words, but I am afraid the eagle was removed from our national flag a while ago, even before WWII, I think. Too many bad associations (sp?) with the old symbols, even during WWI.
It is still our national symbol though.
As far as national pride and nationalism here in germany go, it is very hard to say s.th. like that in public and not be called a Neo-Nazi ( or be associated with them ).
Although germany in history has many things to be proud of, most look at the later history in the 20th century, with the two world wars and the holocaust.
It is not that we have been taught to be ashamed to be german, but you are not being encouraged to hold your head high either.
It will take a while before we can develop a distinctive national identity and pride without being labelled as Nazis.
Simple example: in the US, it is perfectly normal and acceptable to fly the national flag in front of your house.
If I did that over here, people would get suspicious and ask themselves "now, what is he up to?"
It is still our national symbol though.
As far as national pride and nationalism here in germany go, it is very hard to say s.th. like that in public and not be called a Neo-Nazi ( or be associated with them ).
Although germany in history has many things to be proud of, most look at the later history in the 20th century, with the two world wars and the holocaust.
It is not that we have been taught to be ashamed to be german, but you are not being encouraged to hold your head high either.
It will take a while before we can develop a distinctive national identity and pride without being labelled as Nazis.
Simple example: in the US, it is perfectly normal and acceptable to fly the national flag in front of your house.
If I did that over here, people would get suspicious and ask themselves "now, what is he up to?"
To Esteban:
Politically correct pussywhipisms. I'm not bashing on you, it's just that we have all been victims of a massive campaign to pussify the planet by people who got their lunch money stolen from them in school and pantsed on the playground, they pick some degree where all you have to do is kiss the ass of a professor tha was treated the same way, became something like a reporter, and used wordsmithing to make everyone believe that we have to spend our lifetime catering to pussies. Think about it, if some dirty hippy saw me say "I'm ______ being white" they would think that I meant "I'm ______ I'm not black", insert any adjective you want, proud, happy, glad, ecstatic, orgasmic, aroused, none are ethically wrong in the first statement, but it often gets confused in the second.
To Schuss:
Damn that sux, I gots some German in me, what you said makes me wanna move over there just to buy a house and paint it black, yellow, and red. I like being an ass like that, throw it up in everyone's face and they go nowhere to go with it, they confront you, just ask them "and what's wrong with that?". I guess it's true that it will take some time, but you gotta start somewhere. I guess I was thinking you still had the eagle cuz I think I saw it alot at the olympics.
Edit:for continuity, didn't wanna have to quote redundantly
Politically correct pussywhipisms. I'm not bashing on you, it's just that we have all been victims of a massive campaign to pussify the planet by people who got their lunch money stolen from them in school and pantsed on the playground, they pick some degree where all you have to do is kiss the ass of a professor tha was treated the same way, became something like a reporter, and used wordsmithing to make everyone believe that we have to spend our lifetime catering to pussies. Think about it, if some dirty hippy saw me say "I'm ______ being white" they would think that I meant "I'm ______ I'm not black", insert any adjective you want, proud, happy, glad, ecstatic, orgasmic, aroused, none are ethically wrong in the first statement, but it often gets confused in the second.
To Schuss:
Damn that sux, I gots some German in me, what you said makes me wanna move over there just to buy a house and paint it black, yellow, and red. I like being an ass like that, throw it up in everyone's face and they go nowhere to go with it, they confront you, just ask them "and what's wrong with that?". I guess it's true that it will take some time, but you gotta start somewhere. I guess I was thinking you still had the eagle cuz I think I saw it alot at the olympics.
Edit:for continuity, didn't wanna have to quote redundantly
Last edited by kr@cker (2006-06-02 06:28:11)