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2006-06-01 12:22:21
flarke
Member
+1|6771

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

flarke wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:


yeah, that was pre war.  You remember what saddam did to his oil refineries when we were rollin in on baghdad. thinking a smoke screen will stop a smart bomb.  but that was then, now oil industry is in ruins.  everytime they open a pipeline it gets blown up within days.  I have guarded, escorted and patroled in and around several oil refineries and they were under staffed and over guarded, not the sign of a smoothly running business.
And that explains that US didn't invade Iraq because of oil, how? 

From what you say, it would appear that attempts at using Iraqi oil indeed were (and perhaps still are) being made, apparently at risk to your and your fellow soldiers lives...

By the way, going back on topic: where do you people get the information that the marines were returning fire?  From what I've read in the news, there was no mention of gun fire exchange.  Link to a source, please?
we arent talking about the reason for invasion are we. i never broadcast why i believe we invaded have I? Nope.
Then what was the purpose of your comment about bombed out oil industry?  RicardoBlanco was talking about reasons for invading Iraq, and you were obviously not agreeing with his post.  Therefore I assumed that you were disagreeing with his point about invasion. Hence my previous comment. 

Were you merely correcting some irrelevant factual mistake or simply reminiscing about your time in Iraq?  That's okay, but you should clearly state the context of your posts if you suddenly decide to move away from the one that is currently established in the thread.
2006-06-01 12:24:01
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6987|MA, USA

RicardoBlanco wrote:

Gunslinger, Iraqi oil reserves are the fourth largest I believe and pre-war infrastructure had the capacity to produce millions of barrels of oil a day...America could only dream of such reserves. The Ameri.....Iraqi govournment gets money, not oil and it's all administered by the US. This money if from oil sales. Call me cynical but that sounds like a bloody good reason to invade a country if yours is in the midst of an energy crisis.

whittsend:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/

Says it all really...
First, your timing is off...there was no oil price crisis when the conflict started.

As Gunslinger said, pre-war infrastruction is not post-war infrastructure.  Iraq had virtually no oil production capacity when I left in August 2004, and I strongly doubt the terrorists have allowed them to build it up since then...am I right Gunslinger?  Furthermore, if you read your own article, there isn't even a hint that money or oil is being stolen or sold at a discount, only that it is mis-managed...and that is pretty far from the same thing.  As far as your other link goes, why should I believe the opinion of someone that I know to be a load of bullshit (much as yours is) when I was there and know from my own experience that it isn't true?

Believe it if you want, but you are condemning yourself to ignorance.  Again, Gunslinger is on the mark.

RicardoBlanco wrote:

Err..no. This was a British journalist reporting for one of the most respected broadsheets in this country. He gives an eyewitness account of the living conditions of the soldiers involved in the massacre and likens them to "Lord of the Flies". And you tell me I'm ill informed calling these American soldiers undisciplined? YOU sir, are ill informed, or simply choosing to ignore the facts.
As I said before, I know what he is saying is a gross exaggeration.  Why would he do this?  You don't suppose he is trying to sell some papers, do you?  You are hardly using sources that are infallable here.  As I noted, I know from experience it simply isn't like that.

Edit:  By the way, the bit about not washing is pure bullshit. I have been to that dam and there is, as there tends to be, a large lake behind it.  Soldiers used that lake to wash themselves daily.  Your reporter has a flair for the dramatic, but facts do suffer, don't they?

Last edited by whittsend (2006-06-01 12:33:17)

2006-06-01 12:34:29
Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|7035|Orlando, FL - Age 43
Far be it for those with some idealistic agenda to listen to experience, whittsend.
2006-06-01 12:46:02
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6856

RicardoBlanco wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

oh and talking about discipline read this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … knews.html

Again, says it all...
that dont say anything at all man. that just describes one reporters opinions on the living conditions of a unit of marines and quotes a CIVILIAN at the end to add the little dramatic effect.
Err..no. This was a British journalist reporting for one of the most respected broadsheets in this country. He gives an eyewitness account of the living conditions of the soldiers involved in the massacre and likens them to "Lord of the Flies". And you tell me I'm ill informed calling these American soldiers undisciplined? YOU sir, are ill informed, or simply choosing to ignore the facts.
I'm sorry, if this is one of your most respected "broadsheets" I would hate to see your less respected.  If this isn't clearly biased I don't know what is.  And we think our media is slanted, it's obvious by this article we don't have a monopoly on biased journalism. 

How can his accounts be eyewitnessed when he clearly states there were people he was not allowed to interview?

Last edited by GATOR591957 (2006-06-01 12:47:25)

2006-06-01 12:51:08
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6872

whittsend wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

Gunslinger, Iraqi oil reserves are the fourth largest I believe and pre-war infrastructure had the capacity to produce millions of barrels of oil a day...America could only dream of such reserves. The Ameri.....Iraqi govournment gets money, not oil and it's all administered by the US. This money if from oil sales. Call me cynical but that sounds like a bloody good reason to invade a country if yours is in the midst of an energy crisis.

whittsend:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/

Says it all really...
First, your timing is off...there was no oil price crisis when the conflict started.

As Gunslinger said, pre-war infrastruction is not post-war infrastructure.  Iraq had virtually no oil production capacity when I left in August 2004, and I strongly doubt the terrorists have allowed them to build it up since then...am I right Gunslinger?  Furthermore, if you read your own article, there isn't even a hint that money or oil is being stolen or sold at a discount, only that it is mis-managed...and that is pretty far from the same thing.  As far as your other link goes, why should I believe the opinion of someone that I know to be a load of bullshit (much as yours is) when I was there and know from my own experience that it isn't true?

Believe it if you want, but you are condemning yourself to ignorance.  Again, Gunslinger is on the mark.

RicardoBlanco wrote:

Err..no. This was a British journalist reporting for one of the most respected broadsheets in this country. He gives an eyewitness account of the living conditions of the soldiers involved in the massacre and likens them to "Lord of the Flies". And you tell me I'm ill informed calling these American soldiers undisciplined? YOU sir, are ill informed, or simply choosing to ignore the facts.
As I said before, I know what he is saying is a gross exaggeration.  Why would he do this?  You don't suppose he is trying to sell some papers, do you?  You are hardly using sources that are infallable here.  As I noted, I know from experience it simply isn't like that.
the same deal when I left in mid march, 2005.  thing about those damn oil refineries, when i was there, soldiers werent guarding them.  It was the iraqi army and private contractors paid by the iraqi govt that handled all of that nonsense.  I ran into an old team leader from my platoon who ets'ed 2 years prior working for dynacorp while i was on patrol near an oil refinery, small world.  Everytime time a new pipeline was opened up, you could bet on reading about it getting shut down by insurgents very soon after that on stars and stripes.  thats one of the major setbacks iraq is going through right now.  that oil is Iraq's econmic lifeline and the insurgents know that and make sure the industry is not up to par.  I remember reading about only a handful of refineries in the whole country that are up and running.

flarke wrote:

Then what was the purpose of your comment about bombed out oil industry?  RicardoBlanco was talking about reasons for invading Iraq, and you were obviously not agreeing with his post.  Therefore I assumed that you were disagreeing with his point about invasion. Hence my previous comment. 

Were you merely correcting some irrelevant factual mistake or simply reminiscing about your time in Iraq?  That's okay, but you should clearly state the context of your posts if you suddenly decide to move away from the one that is currently established in the thread.
i was just stating the fact that the oil industry is close to nil in iraq right now, and it has been since the invasion.  hes the one that believes its for oil and im just saying we aint getting any oil, so how could that be the reason. why was i filling my track up with JP8 from kuwait and not iraq? thats all i was addressing.

and that other link

"Err..no. This was a British journalist reporting for one of the most respected broadsheets in this country. He gives an eyewitness account of the living conditions of the soldiers involved in the massacre and likens them to "Lord of the Flies". And you tell me I'm ill informed calling these American soldiers undisciplined? YOU sir, are ill informed, or simply choosing to ignore the facts"

what facts were presented there other than the unit history of the marines there and the personel that lives in that facility?  and where did i ever say you were ill informed, quit trying to get heated up...lol.  equating their living environment to a scene from "lord of the flies" is not a fact, it is an opinion being stated by that specific reporter.  so what hard facts are being stated in that little article, hmmm?
2006-06-01 13:16:34
flarke
Member
+1|6771

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

flarke wrote:

Then what was the purpose of your comment about bombed out oil industry?  RicardoBlanco was talking about reasons for invading Iraq, and you were obviously not agreeing with his post.  Therefore I assumed that you were disagreeing with his point about invasion. Hence my previous comment. 

Were you merely correcting some irrelevant factual mistake or simply reminiscing about your time in Iraq?  That's okay, but you should clearly state the context of your posts if you suddenly decide to move away from the one that is currently established in the thread.
i was just stating the fact that the oil industry is close to nil in iraq right now, and it has been since the invasion.  hes the one that believes its for oil and im just saying we aint getting any oil, so how could that be the reason. why was i filling my track up with JP8 from kuwait and not iraq? thats all i was addressing.
Well, it's not that US of A don't want the Iraqi oil, it just that they can't have any. You saw them trying. Then someone who doesn't want USA and company to have the oil blew up the pipe.  So you see, wether USA got the oil in the end or not doesn't matter.  I still don't know for sure what the reasons to start the war were, either, but the deduction you tried to make isn't logical.  That's what I had to address.
2006-06-01 13:20:33
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6872

flarke wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

flarke wrote:

Then what was the purpose of your comment about bombed out oil industry?  RicardoBlanco was talking about reasons for invading Iraq, and you were obviously not agreeing with his post.  Therefore I assumed that you were disagreeing with his point about invasion. Hence my previous comment. 

Were you merely correcting some irrelevant factual mistake or simply reminiscing about your time in Iraq?  That's okay, but you should clearly state the context of your posts if you suddenly decide to move away from the one that is currently established in the thread.
i was just stating the fact that the oil industry is close to nil in iraq right now, and it has been since the invasion.  hes the one that believes its for oil and im just saying we aint getting any oil, so how could that be the reason. why was i filling my track up with JP8 from kuwait and not iraq? thats all i was addressing.
Well, it's not that US of A don't want the Iraqi oil, it just that they can't have any. You saw them trying. Then someone who doesn't want USA and company to have the oil blew up the pipe.  So you see, wether USA got the oil in the end or not doesn't matter.  I still don't know for sure what the reasons to start the war were, either, but the deduction you tried to make isn't logical.  That's what I had to address.
its not the US getting the oil, its Iraq. the insurgency is hurting the iraqi people, not the USA.  I wasnt trying to give a reason why we invaded.  I havent stated my opinions on that to anybody, i dont think
2006-06-01 13:22:23
-F8-Scotch
Member
+43|6798
Here is a small bit of reality that might help ease the Oil war fiasco. If you recall the administration claimed that the profits from the Iraqi oil industry would virtually pay for the war. I don't have any links to specific quotes at the moment, also if I'm wrong I surely appologize...i'm about 99% sure that the claim is acurate. To put this statement into context the American publc was also told to expect jubilous greetings for our troops, WMD stockpiles,...the tale goes on.

Obviously Oil wasn't the main concern of the administration yet opening up the oil market to American companies would have been had a significant impact. Even opening the taps for Iraqi oil companies to enter the world market place would have a major effect on the global price of oil. Isn't Iraq sitting on the highest concentration of Oil in the gulf right now? Regardless of motives, should the pipelines have opened as expected without the insurgent crisis we would probably be sitting closer to $1 than $3 a gallon.

While we are not "at war" for oil, there is certainly an underlying hope that Iraq will stabilize. I can understand why so many people believe that Oil is the main reason we care what happens in the middle east, on some level that arguement is valid.

While I haven't gotten into Iraq arguements to any degree I surely don't want to take up current situation discussions with folks that have been there. As a caveat to my posts, my experience doesn't include military service, however I appreciate the roles our military personel play in protecting Americans as well as others incapable of protecting themselves.

Just a quick question for any Iraq vets...Watching Jesse James in Iraq was pretty eye opening, it was beyond the surface glimpse we get from the MSM but also included personal stories that tore me up at times. My question is, when the fuck did the HMMV get a minigun? Beyond that, are the HMMV's that look more akin to tanks necessary? Obviously the folks on the ground should have whatever is needed to be safe and get the job done. I was suprised that the HMMV had been turned into extremely heavily armed, minigun (drool), and armored patrol vehicles. Thanks.
2006-06-01 13:37:00
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6987|MA, USA
Clearly oil is a large part of the reason we are there in the region.  To say it isn't is naive.  BUT we are not there to steal the oil.  Even if clownshoes Bush said it, it was never going to happen.  It is politically impossible.  You may think the US thumbs its nose at the world, but we don't thumb it so much that we march in and steal natural resources, and to suggest we do is ridiculous.

RE:  Miniguns on HMMWVs.  Never saw one.  I was an MP in Iraq, so I spent most of my time in HMMWVs.  We had .50s and Mk 19s...but never saw anyone with a minigun.  Not that I would have had a problem with it if I did...any advantage you can get.  Anyway, believe it or not, all the armor you have ever seen on a HMMWV is not enough to protect the troops inside from a sizable IED.  Some places you just ride around with your fingers in your ears.
2006-06-01 13:37:56
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6856

-F8-Scotch wrote:

Here is a small bit of reality that might help ease the Oil war fiasco. If you recall the administration claimed that the profits from the Iraqi oil industry would virtually pay for the war. I don't have any links to specific quotes at the moment, also if I'm wrong I surely appologize...i'm about 99% sure that the claim is acurate. To put this statement into context the American publc was also told to expect jubilous greetings for our troops, WMD stockpiles,...the tale goes on.

Obviously Oil wasn't the main concern of the administration yet opening up the oil market to American companies would have been had a significant impact. Even opening the taps for Iraqi oil companies to enter the world market place would have a major effect on the global price of oil. Isn't Iraq sitting on the highest concentration of Oil in the gulf right now? Regardless of motives, should the pipelines have opened as expected without the insurgent crisis we would probably be sitting closer to $1 than $3 a gallon.

While we are not "at war" for oil, there is certainly an underlying hope that Iraq will stabilize. I can understand why so many people believe that Oil is the main reason we care what happens in the middle east, on some level that arguement is valid.

While I haven't gotten into Iraq arguements to any degree I surely don't want to take up current situation discussions with folks that have been there. As a caveat to my posts, my experience doesn't include military service, however I appreciate the roles our military personel play in protecting Americans as well as others incapable of protecting themselves.

Just a quick question for any Iraq vets...Watching Jesse James in Iraq was pretty eye opening, it was beyond the surface glimpse we get from the MSM but also included personal stories that tore me up at times. My question is, when the fuck did the HMMV get a minigun? Beyond that, are the HMMV's that look more akin to tanks necessary? Obviously the folks on the ground should have whatever is needed to be safe and get the job done. I was suprised that the HMMV had been turned into extremely heavily armed, minigun (drool), and armored patrol vehicles. Thanks.
With all the seriousness on the topic of this thread.  You come up with a HUMMV question.  Get real and back on the subject!
2006-06-01 14:59:51
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6865|Westminster, California

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Then what was the purpose
its not the US getting the oil, its Iraq. the insurgency is hurting the iraqi people, not the USA.  I wasn't trying to give a reason why we invaded.  I haven't stated my opinions on that to anybody, i dont think
I'll be interested to hear whenever you'd like to start that thread.

I may have been a LITTLE harsh in the starting topic, but know this; the average civilian hearing about this on the news will be given slanted news. Part of why I brought this up is to be a counter thought to what I know will be anti-American garbage broadcast daily.
     
     I also never have said anything about why I thought we invaded.
     I have been known as somebody who is NOT a Bush fan.
     
     These men could be sent to prison for many years, using them as political pawns for the sake of making headlines is beyond what I consider to be acceptable. Because of the press interference these men will likely be sacrificed to the media. This should have been handled by a military court. Had it been that way they probably could have gotten a fair trial; now there fucked for sure because John Murtha whats somebodies head.
2006-06-01 15:23:05
Home
Section.80
+447|7076|Seattle, Washington, USA

God forbid I voice my opinion in the "Debate and Serious" section. -2 karma already. I actually gave yerded and Gunslinger + karma, just to show I wasn't one of those idiots who hands out - karma because someone disagrees with my opinion. So, I apologize to whoever gave me negative karma. I'm sorry for not sharing the same opinions as you.
2006-06-01 15:24:17
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6884|United States of America
I am glad I am not in the military anymore.  Bad enough your sent on a BS mission, but to spend time in jail to save 3 percentage points on a politicians approval rating.  Fuck this Presidency, Fuck the Republicans and Democrats.  Shame on them for doing what they did to the National Guardsmen at Abu Grab. 

Fucking political wars.  The whole fucking thing could have been handled by Air-Strikes.

Last edited by Major_Spittle (2006-06-01 15:24:57)

2006-06-01 15:28:13
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6856
Gunslinger, I too would like to hear your views if you chose to start a thread.  You have a perspective on this subject that I feel many would benefit from.
2006-06-01 15:33:27
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6778|Southeastern USA
RE: miniguns on HMMWV's
The only time i've ever seen these applied to this type of vehicle were some Excursions at the Federal Law Enforcement Center in Brunswick, Ga. Unfortunately it was not in use at the time, from what I hear these are only used by bodyguard convoys in the most dangerous of countries and meant to hopefully never see action, as opposed to the hummers which see more than their share. They didn't have the weapons installed at the time, just the mount and breakaway roof, they said this version the motor is slowed down to about 1/3 speed so they wouldn't saw the local Taco Bell in half.
2006-06-01 15:34:00
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6779|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth
This incident was horrible and America should be ashamed of these people (note "these" and not the whole army before you flame me with some patriotic bull).

Someone mentioned the incident with Britsh Troops last year.  Here's the difference (with the important comparisons in CAPITALS):-

In that incident the troops gave some BEATINGS to A SMALL NUMBER of Iraqi teenagers, who WERE ATTACKING THEM with rocks and here in the UK there was a PUBLIC OUTCRY with disgust being felt about what some of our boys had done. 

In this latest incident, Some p*ssed off Marines took revenge for one of their boys getting killed by an Insurgent by MASSACRING 24 UNARMED, UNTHREATENING, INNOCENT civilians and all I've heard from Americans on here is EXCUSES for these troops and how we don't know the facts.

That is bull and every man, woman and child that calls themselves a American should be ashamed of what these guys have done in your name.  Here's why a more forgiving opinion is wrong: -

"We don't know the facts yet/Let's wait for the trial" - You know as well as I do that America wants to try and "polish a turd" when it comes to this case (they've already tried to cover it up once).  Sure, there might be some convictions but an American led trial would be in damage limitaion mode at all costs.  Secondly there is a video tape with a 12 year old girl telling of how she had to play dead to avoid being killed by US soldiers who shot dead 8 people in her house, this is proof enough to me because the alternative is that she's lying which makes no sense!

"They're reacting to being attacked by Insurgents" - That incident occured much earlier in the day than this.  This was planned and coordinated and you're just being naive if you think these guys genuinely thought they were going for insurgent targets.

"This is media propaganda/the girl was lying or twisting the truth to make Americans look bad/any other bullshit". If you agree with any of those lines then you are right up there with such equally ridulous dilusions like believing in fairies, reading horoscopes and believing God exists.  If it was the media one, then obviously you've not seen the kind of cars a libel/slander lawyer drives.  They are rich because sueing for saying or printing wrong information can pay out big time.  You might want to look up how many cases were brought against the media last year and see if it's in a media company's interest to lie.  Don't get me wrong, there is truth in the saying "don't believe everything you read" but if you believe only 10% of what's being reported in this case you should still be ashamed.

To use an American expression, wake up and smell the coffee.  This was an appauling incident, the disgraceful wasting of innocent life and that's not being a liberal or left wing; it's being realistic about what happened.  Stop defending these guys and call for the death penalty for these wankers (they'd get it if they did it in America).
2006-06-01 15:35:48
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|6800|England
I hope the soldiers who pulled the triggers are given life sentences, fucking pussys shooting women and children. WTF happened to professionalism? This act made those soldiers no better than the people they were hunting. I dread to think how many of these peoples relatives are now fighting with the insurgents, hearts and minds anyone?
2006-06-01 15:44:30
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6778|Southeastern USA
Someone please help me find an interview done by a Seattle, Wa. newscast interviewing the survivor of the struck vehicle, I'm not having any luck but I just heard it today. The info as best as I could gather (I was in a rather noisy area) was the station is Channel 5, the name is Lt. Corp. (that doesn't sound right) James Crossen, in it he details the fact that terrorist often use children to trigger IED's and obtain intelligence on patrols. Haditha has become the New Fallujah as being the center for terrorist recruitment, and nothing short of a Fallujah type siege will drive them out. There are a few other stories detailing the atmosphere in Haditha on this but everytime I search I get redirected to some more bullshit search engines. I'll keep looking.


Sheriff/Prosecutor/Jury/Judge Esteban's post doesn't even merit rebuttal.


edit: nor does blanco's

Last edited by kr@cker (2006-06-01 15:45:18)

2006-06-01 15:49:06
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|6800|England

kr@cker wrote:

Someone please help me find an interview done by a Seattle, Wa. newscast interviewing the survivor of the struck vehicle, I'm not having any luck but I just heard it today. The info as best as I could gather (I was in a rather noisy area) was the station is Channel 5, the name is Lt. Corp. (that doesn't sound right) James Crossen, in it he details the fact that terrorist often use children to trigger IED's and obtain intelligence on patrols. Haditha has become the New Fallujah as being the center for terrorist recruitment, and nothing short of a Fallujah type siege will drive them out. There are a few other stories detailing the atmosphere in Haditha on this but everytime I search I get redirected to some more bullshit search engines. I'll keep looking.


Sheriff/Prosecutor/Jury/Judge Esteban's post doesn't even merit rebuttal.


edit: nor does blanco's
Killing people is BAD, you  SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN THE FUCKING COUNTRY ANYWAY. And i do hope your not trying to justify the killing of children under ANY circumstances, fuck dude.
2006-06-01 15:54:21
GATOR591957
Member
+84|6856
I think before we all go off on a tangent we need to remember what we have heard or seen in the press is not necessarily the truth, or the facts.  Please before passing judgment on these folks let's wait to get the facts. 

I caution those of you who want to proclaim this incident as an atrocity.  If you haven't been there, been in a combat situation with live fire, not BF2.  Think of what you would have done to protect your own life in that situation.  I think Gunslinger has given you an inside look, really a glimpse of the reality. 

Gunslinger a question for you.  Where are the British troops stationed.  We rarely hear over here what exactly they are doing.  Before you flame me I am just interested.  I'm not trying to make any accusations.

Last edited by GATOR591957 (2006-06-01 15:54:52)

2006-06-01 16:00:06
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6778|Southeastern USA

GATOR591957 wrote:

I think before we all go off on a tangent we need to remember what we have heard or seen in the press is not necessarily the truth, or the facts.  Please before passing judgment on these folks let's wait to get the facts. 

I caution those of you who want to proclaim this incident as an atrocity.  If you haven't been there, been in a combat situation with live fire, not BF2.  Think of what you would have done to protect your own life in that situation.  I think Gunslinger has given you an inside look, really a glimpse of the reality. 

Gunslinger a question for you.  Where are the British troops stationed.  We rarely hear over here what exactly they are doing.  Before you flame me I am just interested.  I'm not trying to make any accusations.
This line of objective thinking is lost on them, we've tried.
2006-06-01 16:08:37
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066
despite congressmam murthas appeals for lynching, they are entitled to a trail. It wouldn't suprise me if terroists did it, they knew they would get good press over it. Right now, so far as far as anyone knows. O.J. did it. investigate, trail if needed. stfu till then
2006-06-01 16:24:12
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6779|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth

kr@cker wrote:

Sheriff/Prosecutor/Jury/Judge Esteban's post doesn't even merit rebuttal.

edit: nor does blanco's
The saying's "Judge, Jury and Executioner"!  This debate requires at least an ounce of intelligence....

GATOR591957 wrote:

I think before we all go off on a tangent we need to remember what we have heard or seen in the press is not necessarily the truth, or the facts.  Please before passing judgment on these folks let's wait to get the facts. 

I caution those of you who want to proclaim this incident as an atrocity.  If you haven't been there, been in a combat situation with live fire, not BF2.  Think of what you would have done to protect your own life in that situation.  I think Gunslinger has given you an inside look, really a glimpse of the reality.
I answered both of these in my previous post, please read all of it before replying.
2006-06-01 16:29:07
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6865|Westminster, California
If children are alerting enemy fighters about our troop movements and/or triggering explosives then, I'm sorry but they are going to be killed and that is war and it sucks.
2006-06-01 16:59:14
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|6800|England

yerded wrote:

If children are alerting enemy fighters about our troop movements and/or triggering explosives then, I'm sorry but they are going to be killed and that is war and it sucks.
Its not war, Iraq was invaded. Therefor any killing of an Iraqi, whether in combat or by accident, is murder. And murder does suck, especially when its a child. And if anymotherfucker pipes up with 'oh he had wmd' no he did not, that was admitted by the us and UK months ago. It really pisses me off when people moan about escalating casualties etc, america invades iraq and get there asses kicked and now they complain! Well get the fuck out of there!

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