Because you never attacked me personally before that? Besides, I made no comments about your mothers opinions or beliefs. The only offensive material in that was towards you.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
hippocrate
No. I'm sorry but to insist on this point of view is obtuse. 1) Soldiers do not, and should not, make or influence policy. I can't make that any more plain. If you can't understand it, there's no point in discussing it any more. 2) None of our recent conflicts (we haven't been to war since WWII) has been illegal or immoral, so even if my first point did not dispose of the issue (which it does), you still are not making your arguent.Bubbalo wrote:
If the bulk of your country's recent wars have been immoral and/or illegal, you are irresponsible in signing up. By signing up, you agree that the types of wars that your country fights are not disagreeable to you.
If you care to let me take a few potshots at you, I can make you understand very well how cheap ammunition is, and how expensive your own life. Clearly that is the only way you will understand what a soldier knows.Bubbalo wrote:
Sure:
4) Unable to ascertain the exact location of their opponents, the soldiers laying down a volume of fire sufficient to kill 24 people over a wide frontage. Ammo is, apparently, cheap. As is life.
You will never hear me try to BS you by saying it is about or for the Iraqis. That may be what the government believes, but it isn't what most soldiers believe. It is about the guy to the left and the guy to the right. It is about staying alive. And if 24 people are accidently killed when a group of soldiers return fire, that sucks, but that isn't going to keep a soldier from defending himself to the best of his ability. Know what else? If you were there, it wouldn't stop you, either.Bubbalo wrote:
They are getting shot at. Sure. But how many innocent Iraqis must be killed to protect them (the Iraqis)?
This isn't a crime or a failure. When fired upon you return fire in an effort to suppress the enemy. This is doctrine. Here's the bad news: If you don't know the EXACT location of the enemy, your volume of fire will grow in an effort to reach him. To say this is wrong is to say soldiers may not defend themselves. It's unfortunate when civilians get caught in the crossfire, but that has happened in every war that has ever been; and it isn't going to go away because you don't like it. People die in war. Get used to it, it happens.Bubbalo wrote:
Which means that their superiors certainly bear some responsibility, I have never denied this. But if they are trained to throw out large volumes of firepower without even ascertaining their targets, how can they call themselves soldiers?
Ever been to Abu Ghraib? I have. It's a big place. Do you have some evidence we are not aware of? In this country evidence (not conjecture) is required for a trial, and everyone against whom there is evidence has been charged.Bubbalo wrote:
There could not possible have been anyone in that prison unaware of what was going on. And yet not all of them are jailed.
If it is (and I don't necessarily disagree), that is a failure of policy, not a failure of the soldiers who do not make or influence policy.Bubbalo wrote:
The whole camp is an abuse of human rights. And legalised too.
not till you gave us that shining example of your intellect. I tried to remain civil with you till you showed your tru colors, and age.Bubbalo wrote:
Because you never attacked me personally before that? Besides, I made no comments about your mothers opinions or beliefs. The only offensive material in that was towards you.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
hippocrate
Past the point of infancy, age is irrelevant to status of emotional maturity. To pull such a card is to be exactly that - immature.
You say it, but I can tell you don't mean it. You don't.yerded wrote:
No! I do NOT get YOU at all. I'm a patriot and your a moral panzy.Spearhead wrote:
That's why NUTCASES like you shouldn't be in charge of OCCUPYING a country full of CIVILIANS. We need ANTI-TERRORIST units, people, not NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS.yerded wrote:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4333/marlboro1tj.jpg
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200606 … 5IS02.html
I support our troops and I'm not sorry about it.
My heart breaks when I hear of deaths in Iraq whether or not they are American or not is beside the point; these are human tragedies. Yes, because I'm an American I am biased, but I speak now of combat troops in general;
I give our GI's the unquestioning benefit of the doubt. These men face mortal danger everyday and normal rules and laws do not and should not apply. I thank all members of the military that are serving in Iraq and elsewhere for their service, and from all our allied countries.
Many so called civilian deaths are counted in Iraq. Many of these so called civilians were sporting an RPG or digging in a I.E.D when they were killed and I say FUCK EM! We are trying to bring a better life to these people and it will be a long hard bloody road, and many innocents will die. Ask a former Iraqi citizen how he/she feels about what we are doing before you pass judgment on these brave men involved in this nightmare.
DO NOT listen to the likes of cowardly, treacherous maggots like John Murtha who constantly seek the muck to rake over our boys; if he was a good congressmen he would be seeing to it that there was no interference in the investigation. Instead that bloated piece of shit goes on the airways accusing our boys of murder. FUCK HIM AND ALL THOSE IN AMERICA WHO BETRAY OUR BOYS.
Because we hold our own to a higher standard there will be a proper investigation and those deemed guilty by a court of law will be punished. Don't lose faith in the mission of freedom for these people; what? did we pick who could run in their elections?! NO! we allowed them to elect from their own and THAT IS A GOD DAMNED NOBLE CAUSE WORTH FIGHTING FOR.
Those people most like died because "insurgence" ran into the house they were in. Case closed in my mind.
I would LOVE to see the Army and Marine Corps occupying YOUR city and treating YOU the same way, yerded. SUCK IT.
We need people who KNOW how to fight TERRORISM. A DUUUUHRRR?!!?! It's the WAR against TERRORISM!
Of COURSE I support the troops. Who doesn't? Honestly? Can you find ONE American saying "Yeah, they DESERVED it!" I doubt it. I think they're the wrong troops for the situation which were meant for a war which was over 3 years ago. Bring em home. Now.
Yerded, I think you're a fucking NUT. You don't CARE about civilian deaths? Are you insane? Yeah, who cares, 20 thousand, 30 thousand, 100 thousand. I don't care because I'm American and I believe in my troops and they're the ones fighting so Iraq can have elections and still be fucked up, because it's always been fucked up, THEY WEREN'T EVEN A COUNTRY until the British INVADED and turned it into a fucking COLONY.
It's people like you that make me wonder WTF America has turned into. LISTEN to yourself! You're insane.
Look, I'm not calling them murderers. I'm sure they reacted the same as anyone in their shoes would. That's why we've got to get the fuck out of Iraq. Do you GET IT?
Of course I care; "My heart breaks when I hear of deaths in Iraq whether or not they are American or not is beside the point; these are human tragedies. Yes, because I'm an American I am biased, but I speak now of combat troops in general;"
Its just that I feel our guys lives are MORE important. And I'nm not sorry about anything I've posted here on this thread.
And please, can we not turn this into ANOTHER "we hate Bubbalo" and "Bubbalo's f*ckin crazy" thread. There are many others. Just take it over there.
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-06-01 08:55:51)
I am a 23 year old combat vet. I am not gonna waste my time trying to explain the intricacies of war to some 14 year old who already thinks they know everything about the world. this does not go to all 14 years olds mind you. just the ones who think they got everything figured out and they're gonna have the nerve to dispute and argue known facts with grown upsXietsu wrote:
Past the point of infancy, age is irrelevant to status of emotional maturity. To pull such a card is to be exactly that - immature.
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-06-01 08:58:36)
The facts of this incident are still, to say the least in question. Gun Slinger, having been there is giving you an inside look into the real life situation. Bubbalo, you seem to only want to listen to yourself talk and not listen, or put yourself in the same situation. Our men and women are doing what they have been "ordered" to do. It's their duty. You can get into the blind obedience thing if you want but that is another thread. The original. second, or third reason we are there really doesn't matter at this point, we are there. Right or wrong.
Gun Slinger thank you for your account of incidents you have been involved in and thank you for your service. I'm glad you're home, hopefully for good. I watched a series last night on HBO called Bagdad ER. Some very disturbing scenes and accounts from Dr.'s and nurses. Our country and many other countries are paying a very dear price for whatever we are trying to achieve. I only hope it is worth it.
Gun Slinger thank you for your account of incidents you have been involved in and thank you for your service. I'm glad you're home, hopefully for good. I watched a series last night on HBO called Bagdad ER. Some very disturbing scenes and accounts from Dr.'s and nurses. Our country and many other countries are paying a very dear price for whatever we are trying to achieve. I only hope it is worth it.
It's fucking outrageous, although what do you expect if you send a bunch of ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks into a war zone. You wouldn't get this kind of behaviour from the British army. It's bad enough 'we' went in there to steal their oil, arguably worse that 'we' did it with no long term plan to deal with the aftermath but to then hear of American soldiers killing women and children...CHILDREN for fucks sake, just because one of their mates got shot smacks of barbarism.
If I was American I'd be fucking ashamed of what my country does and I'm astounded no one in your country seems to care.
If I was American I'd be fucking ashamed of what my country does and I'm astounded no one in your country seems to care.
It is obvious that those with military experience and those who have been there do have a different view of the whole situation than those of us who only watch the news.
Until the conclusion of the investigation, I am ready to give the Marines the benefit of the doubt, but I have to admit I am sceptic how 24 civilians can get caught in the crossfire while Marines fire random shots to keep the enemy down. The coalition forces have been there for a long time. Even the local civilians are probably battle-hardened now, and I doubt so many of them would have stayed around after the IED exploded.
Whatever. We'll see how the investigation goes. I wonder, though, how it is possible it took 6 months for this to come to the surface. Do you think it is possible the USMC tried to cover this up and failed ?
Until the conclusion of the investigation, I am ready to give the Marines the benefit of the doubt, but I have to admit I am sceptic how 24 civilians can get caught in the crossfire while Marines fire random shots to keep the enemy down. The coalition forces have been there for a long time. Even the local civilians are probably battle-hardened now, and I doubt so many of them would have stayed around after the IED exploded.
Whatever. We'll see how the investigation goes. I wonder, though, how it is possible it took 6 months for this to come to the surface. Do you think it is possible the USMC tried to cover this up and failed ?
Funny, there was a thread not too long ago about 'British Brutality' in which many people made most of the same type of accusations against British troops. Personally I thought that was just as silly as the nonsense you are posting here, and a perusal of the thread will show that I defended the actions of those troops.RicardoBlanco wrote:
It's fucking outrageous, although what do you expect if you send a bunch of ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks into a war zone. You wouldn't get this kind of behaviour from the British army. It's bad enough 'we' went in there to steal their oil, arguably worse that 'we' did it with no long term plan to deal with the aftermath but to then hear of American soldiers killing women and children...CHILDREN for fucks sake, just because one of their mates got shot smacks of barbarism.
If I was American I'd be fucking ashamed of what my country does and I'm astounded no one in your country seems to care.
I'm going to point out the obvious in an effort to make you see how ridiculous your post is:
1) "Ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks." This is a poorly informed, emotional, rant. You can't back up any of those accusations. The fact that you even posted that indicates a lack of thought and knowledge of the subject. I'll be happy to discuss that further if you desire, but I'll understand if you'd rather not.
2) Nobody is taking Iraqi oil. It is kept by the Iraqis.
3) You don't KNOW what happened there, so to say it was barbarism of which we should be ashamed is premature.
Bottom line: Your post betrays your ignorance.
when IED's in iraq go off, iraqis tend to run out and see what they could scavenge from the wreckage. this is especially true in urban areas like baghdad. And I did catch this story back when it happened in november, but they made no fuss about it then. I guess the news media was just waiting to fill up some dead time in the ratingsB.Schuss wrote:
It is obvious that those with military experience and those who have been there do have a different view of the whole situation than those of us who only watch the news.
Until the conclusion of the investigation, I am ready to give the Marines the benefit of the doubt, but I have to admit I am sceptic how 24 civilians can get caught in the crossfire while Marines fire random shots to keep the enemy down. The coalition forces have been there for a long time. Even the local civilians are probably battle-hardened now, and I doubt so many of them would have stayed around after the IED exploded.
Whatever. We'll see how the investigation goes. I wonder, though, how it is possible it took 6 months for this to come to the surface. Do you think it is possible the USMC tried to cover this up and failed ?
I'm not sure what you're seeing in England. And please don't pull that high and mighty British bullshit on me. The Brits have been accused if you'll recall in an incident last year. Again, it's accused. Not proven. We in America are caught in a dilemma. If we speak out against the war, we are told we are not supporting our troops. If we keep silent, we are seen by you and others as uncaring. The truth is there are a lot of people in America that do not support the original reason or subsequent reasons for going to war. To be honest, I am ashamed, not of this incident in particular, but how and why this war ever came about. We as a country have lost our good standing with a majority of the world. Through our lack of intelligence (Military and human), I will copy a post I made on another subject which will tell you my feelings on why the war came about and what I feel should be done. To say America does not care is a blanket statement. We do. I personally have family and friends who have either served or are serving. I hear the stories from the real world. I only wish you had the ability to have the same insight.RicardoBlanco wrote:
It's fucking outrageous, although what do you expect if you send a bunch of ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks into a war zone. You wouldn't get this kind of behaviour from the British army. It's bad enough 'we' went in there to steal their oil, arguably worse that 'we' did it with no long term plan to deal with the aftermath but to then hear of American soldiers killing women and children...CHILDREN for fucks sake, just because one of their mates got shot smacks of barbarism.
If I was American I'd be fucking ashamed of what my country does and I'm astounded no one in your country seems to care.
Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
CameronPoe wrote:
{BMF}*Frank_The_Tank wrote:
mhmm.....If it was "the simple reason of Oil", wouldnt we have invaded...say...Iran...Saudi Arabia, or even Kuwait? Considering their oil reserves are larger than what Iraq has...It would only make sense to me. But hey, what do i know, Im an American right?
The US have Saudi Arabia and Kuwait on a tight leash and pretty much call the shots with respect to the oil in those countries. Iraq was the softest option of several for gaining control of more oil resources, having been sanctioned for a decade.
Do you honestly believe the whole war was about oil? The U.S. gets about 10% of it's oil from the entire middle east.
Gator 591957 wrote:
Yes, I do believe the whole war was over oil. My reasons are as follows: A large pipeline is being built to transfer natural gas from Iraq .going through , guess where, Afghanistan. Without controlling those two countries we (Haliburton) could never have built this line. In fact it was Hamid Karsai's (sp) first official duty to sign the agreement for the gas line. Second: as stated earlier USA has Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait under control. Third the USA is currently under siege of huge oil prices and threatens to cripple us if we don't do something. Forth can you name the first, second and third reasons we invaded Iraq. My point here is our President has done a great disservice to our men and women in uniform. By sending them into a war without being prepared to win or equipped to win. His arrogance has cost the lives of many men and women from countries who used to call us friends. Who can trust our "intelligence" now? I apologize for this. I do not want to disgrace those who lost their lives in this war by pulling out. We should pull out. Admit we were wrong. And bring the President up on charges! Lying to the American people, loss of life to all those who fought in the war. Collusion with Haliburton. An last, but not least war crimes at Guantanamo Bay, holding prisoners without charging them with a crime. If we as a people do not stand up and admit we were wrong, it will be difficult for any other country to respect us again.
1) I'd say calling the average American soldier ill educated, badly trained and undisciplined is bloody well informed. Not knowing that what they were doing was wrong would suggest a bad education, and if they did they're amoral. Shooting at civilians, whether man/woman or child suggests bad discipline and training to me.whittsend wrote:
Funny, there was a thread not too long ago about 'British Brutality' in which many people made most of the same type of accusations against British troops. Personally I thought that was just as silly as the nonsense you are posting here, and a perusal of the thread will show that I defended the actions of those troops.RicardoBlanco wrote:
It's fucking outrageous, although what do you expect if you send a bunch of ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks into a war zone. You wouldn't get this kind of behaviour from the British army. It's bad enough 'we' went in there to steal their oil, arguably worse that 'we' did it with no long term plan to deal with the aftermath but to then hear of American soldiers killing women and children...CHILDREN for fucks sake, just because one of their mates got shot smacks of barbarism.
If I was American I'd be fucking ashamed of what my country does and I'm astounded no one in your country seems to care.
I'm going to point out the obvious in an effort to make you see how ridiculous your post is:
1) "Ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks." This is a poorly informed, emotional, rant. You can't back up any of those accusations. The fact that you even posted that indicates a lack of thought and knowledge of the subject. I'll be happy to discuss that further if you desire, but I'll understand if you'd rather not.
2) Nobody is taking Iraqi oil. It is kept by the Iraqis.
3) You don't KNOW what happened there, so to say it was barbarism of which we should be ashamed is premature.
Bottom line: Your post betrays your ignorance.
2) We are all taking Iraqi oil and if you're naive enough to think the Iraqis get a fair price or anything out of this arrangement you are very much mistaken. The oil companies pay the Iraqi govournment (or American govournment..same difference) for an allocation of oil and this is at the lowest price possible so no it doesn't get kept by the Iraqis, it gets sold in the west at vastly inflated prices with profits being kept by said oil companies.
3)As for not knowing what happened...well, 28 dead UNARMED civilians should be a pretty good indication that WHATEVER happened someone fucked those people over in a big way. How can you call an armed man shooting a young girl not barbaric!!!
I can assure you if the British army had perpetrated anything such as this there'd have been a national outcry, a national inquiry and some very public/harsh custodial sentences handed out.
Bottom Line: Your post betrays your nationality and all that entails! Is it too much for anyone to say sorry?
1) I'd say calling the average American soldier ill educated, badly trained and undisciplined is bloody well informed. Not knowing that what they were doing was wrong would suggest a bad education, and if they did they're amoral. Shooting at civilians, whether man/woman or child suggests bad discipline and training to me.
2) We are all taking Iraqi oil and if you're naive enough to think the Iraqis get a fair price or anything out of this arrangement you are very much mistaken. The oil companies pay the Iraqi govournment (or American govournment..same difference) for an allocation of oil and this is at the lowest price possible so no it doesn't get kept by the Iraqis, it gets sold in the west at vastly inflated prices with profits being kept by said oil companies.
3)As for not knowing what happened...well, 28 dead UNARMED civilians should be a pretty good indication that WHATEVER happened someone fucked those people over in a big way. How can you call an armed man shooting a young girl not barbaric!!!
I can assure you if the British army had perpetrated anything such as this there'd have been a national outcry, a national inquiry and some very public/harsh custodial sentences handed out.
Bottom Line: Your post betrays your nationality and all that entails! Is it too much for anyone to say sorry?
P.s I was on my bro's profile by mistake....hence the 2nd post.
2) We are all taking Iraqi oil and if you're naive enough to think the Iraqis get a fair price or anything out of this arrangement you are very much mistaken. The oil companies pay the Iraqi govournment (or American govournment..same difference) for an allocation of oil and this is at the lowest price possible so no it doesn't get kept by the Iraqis, it gets sold in the west at vastly inflated prices with profits being kept by said oil companies.
3)As for not knowing what happened...well, 28 dead UNARMED civilians should be a pretty good indication that WHATEVER happened someone fucked those people over in a big way. How can you call an armed man shooting a young girl not barbaric!!!
I can assure you if the British army had perpetrated anything such as this there'd have been a national outcry, a national inquiry and some very public/harsh custodial sentences handed out.
Bottom Line: Your post betrays your nationality and all that entails! Is it too much for anyone to say sorry?
P.s I was on my bro's profile by mistake....hence the 2nd post.
the oil industry in Iraq is not able to maintain the Iraqi govt, yet alone keep america rich in oil. The money generated by the oil industry in iraq is only being used for Iraq. We are recieving 0 oil from that country. In fact all the fuel we used in Iraq was from saudi arabia and kuwait. The iraqis are still not able to get the petro industry up and running due to the insurgency.JohnnyBlanco wrote:
1) I'd say calling the average American soldier ill educated, badly trained and undisciplined is bloody well informed. Not knowing that what they were doing was wrong would suggest a bad education, and if they did they're amoral. Shooting at civilians, whether man/woman or child suggests bad discipline and training to me.whittsend wrote:
Funny, there was a thread not too long ago about 'British Brutality' in which many people made most of the same type of accusations against British troops. Personally I thought that was just as silly as the nonsense you are posting here, and a perusal of the thread will show that I defended the actions of those troops.RicardoBlanco wrote:
It's fucking outrageous, although what do you expect if you send a bunch of ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks into a war zone. You wouldn't get this kind of behaviour from the British army. It's bad enough 'we' went in there to steal their oil, arguably worse that 'we' did it with no long term plan to deal with the aftermath but to then hear of American soldiers killing women and children...CHILDREN for fucks sake, just because one of their mates got shot smacks of barbarism.
If I was American I'd be fucking ashamed of what my country does and I'm astounded no one in your country seems to care.
I'm going to point out the obvious in an effort to make you see how ridiculous your post is:
1) "Ill educated, badly trained, undisciplined rednecks." This is a poorly informed, emotional, rant. You can't back up any of those accusations. The fact that you even posted that indicates a lack of thought and knowledge of the subject. I'll be happy to discuss that further if you desire, but I'll understand if you'd rather not.
2) Nobody is taking Iraqi oil. It is kept by the Iraqis.
3) You don't KNOW what happened there, so to say it was barbarism of which we should be ashamed is premature.
Bottom line: Your post betrays your ignorance.
2) We are all taking Iraqi oil and if you're naive enough to think the Iraqis get a fair price or anything out of this arrangement you are very much mistaken. The oil companies pay the Iraqi govournment (or American govournment..same difference) for an allocation of oil and this is at the lowest price possible so no it doesn't get kept by the Iraqis, it gets sold in the west at vastly inflated prices with profits being kept by said oil companies.
3)As for not knowing what happened...well, 28 dead UNARMED civilians should be a pretty good indication that WHATEVER happened someone fucked those people over in a big way. How can you call an armed man shooting a young girl not barbaric!!!
I can assure you if the British army had perpetrated anything such as this there'd have been a national outcry, a national inquiry and some very public/harsh custodial sentences handed out.
Bottom Line: Your post betrays your nationality and all that entails! Is it too much for anyone to say sorry?
Can you tell me on what you base this information? How many American Soldiers have you met? How do you know what happened with certainty?JohnnyBlanco wrote:
1) I'd say calling the average American soldier ill educated, badly trained and undisciplined is bloody well informed. Not knowing that what they were doing was wrong would suggest a bad education, and if they did they're amoral. Shooting at civilians, whether man/woman or child suggests bad discipline and training to me.
Actually, the problem over there currently is that the oil isn't getting out because insurgents keep blowing up the pipeline. BUT, if it were, it would be sold at the same $70 odd/barrel as it is elsewhere. Do you have evidence to the contrary? You say I am mistaken, please share your sources so I can be educated.JohnnyBlanco wrote:
2) We are all taking Iraqi oil and if you're naive enough to think the Iraqis get a fair price or anything out of this arrangement you are very much mistaken. The oil companies pay the Iraqi govournment (or American govournment..same difference) for an allocation of oil and this is at the lowest price possible so no it doesn't get kept by the Iraqis, it gets sold in the west at vastly inflated prices with profits being kept by said oil companies.
I have already explained how this can happen. If you choose to ignore it, I can't help that.JohnnyBlanco wrote:
3)As for not knowing what happened...well, 28 dead UNARMED civilians should be a pretty good indication that WHATEVER happened someone fucked those people over in a big way. How can you call an armed man shooting a young girl not barbaric!!!
And I have no doubt you, basking in your full ignorance, and lack of understanding of the truth on the ground in Iraq, would be leading the cry to hang them; never once caring if there were a reason to do so or not.JohnnyBlanco wrote:
I can assure you if the British army had perpetrated anything such as this there'd have been a national outcry, a national inquiry and some very public/harsh custodial sentences handed out.
Ah, now it is nationally based criticism?JohnnyBlanco wrote:
Bottom Line: Your post betrays your nationality and all that entails! Is it too much for anyone to say sorry?
What I want from you is simple: Evidence. Without it, your shrill rants are meaningless.
Gunslinger, Iraqi oil reserves are the fourth largest I believe and pre-war infrastructure had the capacity to produce millions of barrels of oil a day...America could only dream of such reserves. The Ameri.....Iraqi govournment gets money, not oil and it's all administered by the US. This money if from oil sales. Call me cynical but that sounds like a bloody good reason to invade a country if yours is in the midst of an energy crisis.
whittsend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/
Says it all really...
whittsend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/
Says it all really...
oh and talking about discipline read this...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … knews.html
Again, says it all...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … knews.html
Again, says it all...
yeah, that was pre war. You remember what saddam did to his oil refineries when we were rollin in on baghdad. thinking a smoke screen will stop a smart bomb. but that was then, now oil industry is in ruins. everytime they open a pipeline it gets blown up within days. I have guarded, escorted and patroled in and around several oil refineries and they were under staffed and over guarded, not the sign of a smoothly running business.RicardoBlanco wrote:
Gunslinger, Iraqi oil reserves are the fourth largest I believe and pre-war infrastructure had the capacity to produce millions of barrels of oil a day...America could only dream of such reserves. The Ameri.....Iraqi govournment gets money, not oil and it's all administered by the US. This money if from oil sales. Call me cynical but that sounds like a bloody good reason to invade a country if yours is in the midst of an energy crisis.
whittsend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/
Says it all really...
CNN has been covering this for almost three days straight.
All I have to say is, When's the last time CNN covered the death of a couple of marines for three days straight?
No media bias? My fucking foot.
All I have to say is, When's the last time CNN covered the death of a couple of marines for three days straight?
No media bias? My fucking foot.
that dont say anything at all man. that just describes one reporters opinions on the living conditions of a unit of marines and quotes a CIVILIAN at the end to add the little dramatic effect.RicardoBlanco wrote:
oh and talking about discipline read this...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … knews.html
Again, says it all...
And that explains that US didn't invade Iraq because of oil, how?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
yeah, that was pre war. You remember what saddam did to his oil refineries when we were rollin in on baghdad. thinking a smoke screen will stop a smart bomb. but that was then, now oil industry is in ruins. everytime they open a pipeline it gets blown up within days. I have guarded, escorted and patroled in and around several oil refineries and they were under staffed and over guarded, not the sign of a smoothly running business.RicardoBlanco wrote:
Gunslinger, Iraqi oil reserves are the fourth largest I believe and pre-war infrastructure had the capacity to produce millions of barrels of oil a day...America could only dream of such reserves. The Ameri.....Iraqi govournment gets money, not oil and it's all administered by the US. This money if from oil sales. Call me cynical but that sounds like a bloody good reason to invade a country if yours is in the midst of an energy crisis.
whittsend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/
Says it all really...
From what you say, it would appear that attempts at using Iraqi oil indeed were (and perhaps still are) being made, apparently at risk to your and your fellow soldiers lives...
By the way, going back on topic: where do you people get the information that the marines were returning fire? From what I've read in the news, there was no mention of gun fire exchange. Link to a source, please?
we arent talking about the reason for invasion are we. i never broadcast why i believe we invaded have I? Nope.flarke wrote:
And that explains that US didn't invade Iraq because of oil, how?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
yeah, that was pre war. You remember what saddam did to his oil refineries when we were rollin in on baghdad. thinking a smoke screen will stop a smart bomb. but that was then, now oil industry is in ruins. everytime they open a pipeline it gets blown up within days. I have guarded, escorted and patroled in and around several oil refineries and they were under staffed and over guarded, not the sign of a smoothly running business.RicardoBlanco wrote:
Gunslinger, Iraqi oil reserves are the fourth largest I believe and pre-war infrastructure had the capacity to produce millions of barrels of oil a day...America could only dream of such reserves. The Ameri.....Iraqi govournment gets money, not oil and it's all administered by the US. This money if from oil sales. Call me cynical but that sounds like a bloody good reason to invade a country if yours is in the midst of an energy crisis.
whittsend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/
Says it all really...
From what you say, it would appear that attempts at using Iraqi oil indeed were (and perhaps still are) being made, apparently at risk to your and your fellow soldiers lives...
By the way, going back on topic: where do you people get the information that the marines were returning fire? From what I've read in the news, there was no mention of gun fire exchange. Link to a source, please?
Err..no. This was a British journalist reporting for one of the most respected broadsheets in this country. He gives an eyewitness account of the living conditions of the soldiers involved in the massacre and likens them to "Lord of the Flies". And you tell me I'm ill informed calling these American soldiers undisciplined? YOU sir, are ill informed, or simply choosing to ignore the facts.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
that dont say anything at all man. that just describes one reporters opinions on the living conditions of a unit of marines and quotes a CIVILIAN at the end to add the little dramatic effect.RicardoBlanco wrote:
oh and talking about discipline read this...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … knews.html
Again, says it all...