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Thanks for the reminder! One perk of being stuck at home

I was somehow able to give you 2 karma in one day. My obligations are settled

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 … icent-game

Amid a cacophony of beeping car horns, fireworks, and people hanging from car windows waving flags, cheering football fans poured on to Paris’s Champs-Élysées on Wednesday night to celebrate …

People danced, cheered and climbed lampposts and traffic lights as vans of police stood guard. More than 2,000 officers, including riot police in body armour, were stationed around the Champs-Elysées and across Paris in order to control the crowds and keep them to the pavements.

but the crowds remained calm, and included some families and children in Santa hats.

Large numbers of dual French-Moroccan nationals had sat together in nearby bars watching the champions, France, face the outsider success story, Morocco, and there were also Moroccan flags amid the celebrating crowd on the Champs-Elysées. Some fans were wrapped in French and Moroccan flags tied together, while others hanging out of car windows waved the flags of both countries at once.

Rays, a care worker in the southern town of Montpellier, had come to Paris to celebrate his 21st birthday the night before. He watched the match wrapped in the Moroccan flag alongside friends who were France fans sporting tricolour face paint. “France played brilliantly,” he said. “I was born in France to Moroccan and Algerian parents. I really, really wanted Morocco to be the first African team to make it to the World Cup final. It would have been historic, but it wasn’t to be.”

as you were saying, macbeth? paris is going to burn no matter who wins, amirite? it’s the colonials! the arabs in the banlieus! decades of racial tension! europe is a pressure cooker! multiculturalism has failed !!!! the NYT gave me a 300 word primer on their independence struggle!

i told you it was a lame excuse for dipshits like yourself to tee off with dumb generalisations. no surprises that the NYT’s framing, like much of their reporting on UK stories, is parochial and stupid.

as it turns out, there were bigger riots and more disorder at the last european championships, hosted in paris, between a french and an english team. but oddly all the commentary about ‘paris is going to burn’ was absent from that event. wowsers!

here’s an alternative way to frame this narrative:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ … n-diaspora
‘Focus on the joy’: Morocco v France match is symbolic for Moroccan diaspora. Dual-national French-Moroccan citizens are ‘split in two’ but World Cup semi-final is also ‘bringing people together’, say football fans.

really make you think.

the king of morocco has sunk a huge amount of money into their footballing infrastructure and institutions in the run up to this muslim-world’s debut in the world cup. and it paid off in an amazing and historical way. moroccans should rightfully be proud of their performance. they fielded an elite-tier team that beat previous WC winners. a story for the ages.

but non-football fans like you wanted to make the story about ‘colonial revenge’ or ‘paris being burnt down’. because you don’t know shit about football or the complex historical dynamics of modern europe.

as they say in france, /FIN.

Last edited by uziq (2022-12-14 18:07:52)

i don't care about football either. like i said, it's just funny that a person who should know a thing or two about crass, dogwhistle-racist generalisations should so gleefully repeat tabloid-tier guff about 'paris burning' because two national teams, one of which comprises a large migrant diaspora and working class, are meeting in a football group. haven't puerto ricans been on the receiving end of this bullshit?

team sports bring out the best and worst in people, it seems.

The article also mentions supporters on both sides being chill after the game. Sad about the teen. A gruesome lesson in that is try and not to be in or near a crowd converging on a vehicle like that in a fit of post-game buffoonery.

Sports riots are stupid, but there are more underlying issues.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-12-15 04:58:37)

Not to justify the alarmist BS, but it's pretty noticeable that win or lose there have been riots in 3 different countries after every single morocco game.

I hate it when dst racist talk comes here.

the riot police were deployed pre-emptively in all three countries, so i'm not sure how that's self-evident proof of a riot 'taking place'. riot police which, incidentally, are known to escalate situations in large public gatherings as much as to protect them. this has been reported on in inquiries to numerous incidents in europe as well as the UK.

'destructive nationalism', laughing my ass off. people being proud that a country which is part of their ethnic identity are doing historically good at a sport is 'destructive nationalism'? listen to yourself. you'd think they're about to start plotting bombing campaigns and that the FLN are returning to paris.



this is HigHly deStRucTivE!!!

let's not talk about gilet jaunes, then. let's talk about the car burnings, street trashings, mass fights and violence, etc, that break out with routine regularity amongst 'native' sports fans all the time. they never provoke tut-tutting discussions in the national press about 'are these people really british/french/belgian/etc?', do they? we never call that a 'destructive fandom'. very curious how this always gets framed. and by 'curious' i mean utterly fucking tedious and predictable. it's a well-tolerated sport when white english footie fans try to have a scrap with the police, for instance. they're seldom even arrested. why is nobody decrying their lack of patriotic values?




good lord! they deployed riot police! it's a de facto riot!

ironically, actually the most explicitly political or 'nationalist' sentiment running through all these footballing fandoms has been a near-unanimous support for palestine. nothing said about the legacies of colonialism in europe or the relations between france/belgium/netherlands, etc, and their immigrant communities. most talk has been about the football or palestine. lol. you just can't make this shit up. 'destructive nationalism' indeed!

Last edited by uziq (2022-12-15 06:59:26)

Uziq your entire rhetorical strategy here is to either deflect, placate or just state straight nonsense. No, riot police weren't deployed pre-emptively to then pick a fight with the moroccan supporters. It is a fact that the supporters went out in the streets - after they won mind you - and started destroying things. This was one of several scenes in Belgium and the other countries:



There's no way to feign blindness to the fact that there's subsets of the moroccan population which interpreted the games in a way that led them to be 'jubilantly violent' in the streets where they live. Accepting this, analysing it, and calling it out as being wrong and harmful to community relationships is not racism.

You wouldn't see Belgian-born French people trashing Brussels if the French won a game against Belgium. The whole notion is bizarre. Or ethnically Dutch people lighting trash cans, bicycles and other stuff in London if they happened to lose a game against the English. It's beyond obvious in their action that they hold grievances and are (ab)using the games to express those violently.

The bizarre nature of it all is underlined by the fact that it's happening in THREE countries at the same time, and that no other minorities in Europe who are arguably in similar or worse socioeconomic positions - Senegalese, Tunisians, Iranians - were rioting after their countries' games. On top of that it's especially bad sport to hold violent get togethers after winning a game.

Last edited by Larssen (2022-12-15 09:16:57)

Take it to the "Good things that have happened in your life lately" thread

yes, riot police were deployed pre-emptively before the match even kicked off. lol. this is not hard to verify. the presence of riot police doesn’t constitute a riot. why does this have to be explained to you?

so they lit some trash on fire in the streets? burned a few cars? please explain to me how this hasn’t happened dozens of times per year in the context of other sporting events and fandoms? you can’t have been paying attention very closely.

lmao. ‘exceptionally bad sport to celebrate in this way’. so the current list of charges is that their form of celebrating is most unbecoming and that their happiness over a rare footballing success is ‘dangerously nationalistic’.

you really are reaching my friend.

no, paris did not burn. most people saw the football tournament as a cause for a healthy dose of pride and a feel-good celebration. vast swathes of the diaspora and migrant communities could deal with and process such an event as dual-citizens, without the fabric of european society being torn apart.

did problem youths in molenbeek throw some stones at police and break some windows? undoubtedly. are there historical issues between migrant communities and the police? well duh. but this narrative framing - ‘riots across europe, one particular group behaving this way, deep discord and ominous social rumblings’ - is just alarmist nonsense of the highest order. do better, you show your provincial petit-bourgeois grievances a little too transparently at times.

I see cameras at most of those now