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2022-12-05 00:40:09
uziq
Member
+493|3667
how is that a counter-argument? rofl.

the quality of life for native britons has taken a nose dive. growth has stalled. wages haven't grown in real terms for 15 straight years.

compared to the global wealth distribution, life in western europe is pretty desirable, yes. but what bearing does that have on the fact that the UK, the world's 5th/6th richest nation, or thereabouts, has ever-widening inequality and masses of people being delivered into poverty and food/fuel precarity this winter?

does that mean a prole living in a council sink estate should be happy that all their libraries are closing, bus routes shuttering, food bills increasing, etc.? 'just think, you're lucky not to be born in syria'.

this form of weak piss argument mirrors the exact same stuff being trotted out by the multimillionaire swine and swindler, nadhim zahawi, on tv news stations this week in response to nurses' campaigning for higher pay. 'sorry we can't boost your wages in line with inflation, doubly sorry that you took such a battering in the last 3 years because of our bungled covid policies and PPE sourcing, woops ... but, just think, if we give you a rise, we'll be playing into putin's hands. think of the ukrainians this winter and make sacrifices for them. err, i mean, i won't, but give it a go anyway'.

you should become a politician, you're a fucking genius.

let me guess your next genius-tier response: "well the country voted for this leadership and direction. /popcorn. oh look, my stocks are increasing!"

Last edited by uziq (2022-12-05 00:45:02)

2022-12-05 01:06:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

the quality of life for native britons has taken a nose dive. growth has stalled. wages haven't grown in real terms for 15 straight years.
And as I keep pointing out - its 15 years of people like you running the show.
you should become a politician, you're a fucking genius.
I agree, but it looks tedious, and the only output is more people and more consumption.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-05 01:13:41
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX
I think its best that I stick to saving the world through the power of engineering.

Fuck Israel
2022-12-05 01:38:15
uziq
Member
+493|3667
'people like me running the show' – i'm sorry, when did i ever vote conservative? i'm not part of the eton->oxford->PPE grad->westminster SPAD pipeline you keep decrying, either. i'm just as far away from those people educationally and socially as you are. what a bizarre comment. so because i read literature and johnson can quote classics due to his eton schooldays, we are 'the same people'? lol you might need to fine-tune your analysis a little bit there, chap. 'has a BA' as a filter captures 40-50% of all fucking university graduates, you moron.

and the point of my original post was that neoliberalism has failed utterly. the mendacious market-based ideology we have been sold has been a rug-pull. and, if you're going to continue with your boggle-eyed obsession with education and credentialism, that market-based ideology was applied to the UK economy as shock doctrine by ... a fucking chemist, backed up by a bunch of City yuppies and central bank technocrats.

this forum is like the worst version of groundhog day ever. it doesn't even have the gags and levity of a bill murray flick. have you been tested for dementia?

Last edited by uziq (2022-12-05 01:39:27)

2022-12-05 02:29:43
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX
By 'people like you' I meant morons who think they know everything but don't know anything.

neoliberalism has failed utterly
Its failed at the implementation

a fucking chemist
Well technically she was an Oxford history reject.

backed up by a bunch of City yuppies and central bank technocrats
At the University of Vienna, Hayek initially studied mostly philosophy, psychology and economics.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-05 06:10:42
uziq
Member
+493|3667
Its failed at the implementation
right. and where have we heard that before? about every variety of idealistic political philosophy, from socialism/communism to any sort of 'benign totalitarianism'. you really are that guy who is like 'let me have a go, i'll get it right'. you are a real fucking derpsicle. i'm sure the shut-in from wagga wagga is going to set to rights the failures of, inter alia, neoliberalism and failed technocratic governance. you're a genius! you really are wasted in that CAD role.

and lol at accusing the university of vienna of being somehow intellectually akin to complacent, entitled oxford toffs. you really don't know anything, do you?

By 'people like you' I meant morons who think they know everything but don't know anything.
lmao.

for the record, hayek's background in vienna was associated with the main intellectual centre in europe for work in logic and maths/economics. hayek is literally the idol of technocratic market-loving quants, he's the respectable version of ayn rand and her 'objectivist' engineering cult, not 'humanities hipsters'. hayek came from the vienna tradition of hardcore logicians like frege, gödel and wittgenstein; for an english comparison, cf. bertrand russell and g. e. moore. hayek's circle and the intellectual milieu in early 20th century vienna pre-dated any stereotypes you have about 'philosophy' or 'economics' majors from the late-20th century. he ante-dates PPE by quite a bit, idiot. back then psychology and economics were very new fields that were firmly rooted in positivism, logic, and the 'scientific method', not handy sandwich courses for privileged nobs from public schools to skip through.

i disagree with hayek's political philosophy in just about every principal way, but to stereotype him or guilt him by association with the mouth-breathing free-market doctrinaires he inspires today s wrong. and to associate him in any way with toffs or 'humanities hipsters' getting by on a little learning and a few latin quotes is just egregiously wrong. like our good black engineering dean, he is in another intellectual league to you.

Last edited by uziq (2022-12-05 06:21:17)

2022-12-06 00:33:03
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

for the record, hayek's background in vienna was associated with the main intellectual centre in europe for work in logic and maths/economics. hayek is literally the idol of technocratic market-loving quants, he's the respectable version of ayn rand and her 'objectivist' engineering cult, not 'humanities hipsters'. hayek came from the vienna tradition of hardcore logicians like frege, gödel and wittgenstein; for an english comparison, cf. bertrand russell and g. e. moore. hayek's circle and the intellectual milieu in early 20th century vienna pre-dated any stereotypes you have about 'philosophy' or 'economics' majors from the late-20th century. he ante-dates PPE by quite a bit, idiot. back then psychology and economics were very new fields that were firmly rooted in positivism, logic, and the 'scientific method', not handy sandwich courses for privileged nobs from public schools to skip through.
I think the best thing many people could do is learn to use a lathe.
It teaches discipline, attention to detail, focus, respect, planning etc.
If you fuck up you're liable to get a faceful of high-velocity burning metal in your face or lose an appendage, at best you'll ruin your work and have to start again - not just dash off work while half-cut after a party and expect to get an A* because everyone else on your course is also a simpering moron and the Dean played cricket with your daddy at school.

This should weed out the truly stupid and the remainder might be a bit more wary of inflicting their nutty theories on the world when they realise that incompetence has consequences.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-06 00:53:27
uziq
Member
+493|3667
yes that's exactly how hayek got his doctorate and exactly how it works for your average humanities graduate. people graduate because of school ties and family connections. they practically do no work at all. in fact, every humanities graduate is basically from the 0.1% who went to eton or harrow. that's how them stats break down!

you really are completely hopeless.
2022-12-06 00:56:28
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

every humanities graduate is basically from the 0.1% who went to eton or harrow. that's how them stats break down!
But the courses are the same.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-06 01:40:30
uziq
Member
+493|3667
you really have no idea what you're talking about. what relation does how balliol runs their PPE course have on english at magdalene, or trinity? they're not even the same departments or administrative colleges. what a pointless fucking discussion this is. change the record chap, it's very, very old and you're really not getting very far with your 'incisive' analysis.

trying to somehow make out hayek was a humanities hipster with 'soft' intellectual skills is plain funny. the university of vienna ffs. did it ever occur to you that semi-vocational, professionalized technical courses like 'engineering' didn't even exist as a formalised subject in 1910? you really are a fucking idiot.
2022-12-06 07:02:51
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3934
Ukraine bombed a Russian airfield again. No, not that one from Sunday. They bombed a different one today. Crazy situation.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2022-12-06 07:22:25
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6986|PNW

Obviously not enough letter bombs and animal parts are being mailed to Ukrainian embassies elsewhere.
2022-12-07 02:07:07
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

you really have no idea what you're talking about. what relation does how balliol runs their PPE course have on english at magdalene, or trinity? they're not even the same departments or administrative colleges. what a pointless fucking discussion this is. change the record chap, it's very, very old and you're really not getting very far with your 'incisive' analysis.
Not every vegetable politician did PPE though eh?

The point is if a vegetable can get a good grade they're fairly worthless no?
Fuck Israel
2022-12-07 02:22:22
uziq
Member
+493|3667
you're once again being extremely over-deterministic about what someone studied, and how they did or did not perform aged 18–21, and their mid-life political views and choices. a star student at 18 can become undone or a significantly different sort of fellow by age 50. why does this need to be pointed out to you? a lifetime of port and roast beef can change a person cognitively well enough – look at your own decline into petulant outcries and quack science.

and who said boris was a master classicist anyway? nobody thinks he is a talented classicist. he can only butcher half-remembered quotations from his halcyon Eton schooldays. by all admissions liz truss was an incredibly dense student, etc. none of these recent disasters for british politics have been renowned scholars.

on the other hand, we do have people in the cabinet with PhD's in chemistry who seemingly don't even know about antibiotic resistance. should we therefore shutter all chemistry departments until we find out just what is going on in these pissant departments? make u think chap.

i really don't think the validity of any academic discipline lives or dies by how a tiny select minority elite get by in life. being in receipt of £200,000+ of private education by age 18 (plus any untold amount on 1-on-1 private tuition and cramming classes) will probably make even the dimmest of poshos pretty good at passing examinations and bluffing through tutorials. that's a problem with elites in every walk of life, and doesn't have much bearing on the total activity of an entire discipline. plus, we are once again talking only in the most limited way about undergraduate education. it is frankly baffling that you think the focus and 'meat' of universities is in undergraduate teaching and examination. it's like you fundamentally misunderstand what academia even is.

Last edited by uziq (2022-12-07 02:29:27)

2022-12-07 02:38:09
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

it is frankly baffling that you think the focus and 'meat' of universities is in undergraduate teaching and examination. it's like you fundamentally misunderstand what academia even is.
I know exactly how academia works, I did a masters and was offered a fully funded PhD, thanks.

If the sausage machine is churning out rotten sausages you do have to question the quality of both the sausages and the machine, and think carefully about whether it should be allowed to keep running or continue stamping "Best British Quality" on every one.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-07 02:42:51
uziq
Member
+493|3667
yes, sure, so again please report back to me on what we're going to do with the discipline of chemistry now that therese coffey, Ph.D is presently making a mess of her ministerial portfolio.

if you knew what academia was about, or if you even really knew what the real world was about, really, then you'd surely stop prating on about undergraduate educations and their bearing on midlife, mid-career individuals. most bachelors degrees are not really vocational and have little to no relation to what someone is doing or thinking +25 years after graduation. this is so obvious as to seem ridiculous to point out.
2022-12-07 05:25:43
uziq
Member
+493|3667
MPs and peers do worse than 10 year olds at maths and english SAT exams.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 … glish-sats

dilbert: but why aren’t these 50-60 year old men perfect representatives of their undergraduate education?!!!??
2022-12-07 09:45:41
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6986|PNW

"If you don't use it, you lose it."

There was a game show about this. "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?"

Honestly, it might take me a bit of a kick start to remember things I haven't used since school. And these guys are way older than I am. I don't know very well what British education is like, but US education felt more focused on cramming and test scores than deep understanding and internalisation. I think it would be more informative to allow any adult undergoing this stunt a period of study and refresher before they sat for it. Maybe have some of them work a job or two at the same time in retail or flipping burgers, and then compare the results.
2022-12-08 01:19:28
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

yes, sure, so again please report back to me on what we're going to do with the discipline of chemistry now that therese coffey, Ph.D is presently making a mess of her ministerial portfolio.

if you knew what academia was about, or if you even really knew what the real world was about, really, then you'd surely stop prating on about undergraduate educations and their bearing on midlife, mid-career individuals. most bachelors degrees are not really vocational and have little to no relation to what someone is doing or thinking +25 years after graduation. this is so obvious as to seem ridiculous to point out.
The point is they've never learnt the simplest things, how to gather information, parse, analyse, formulate arguments, take reasoned decisions etc.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-08 01:48:35
uziq
Member
+493|3667
you're really talking about yourself, there. you don't even have the most rudimentary research or analytical skills. your 'arguments' on this forum over the years have been two varieties of petulance. your sources are paper thin and you seemingly come here to post whatever incenses you from the tabloids/national media that week. linking people wikipedia entries as if it's a primer on actual knowledge or a stand-in for intelligence. and you're lecturing people on 'how to gather information ... formulate arguments'? LMAO.

i think it's really funny that you consider yourself a clued-in academic type. you have about as much relation to a PhD'd researcher as you do to a captain in the paras: thinking about it and having it as a future option doesn't mean you viva voce'd or got your maroon beret. lmao. you really are deluded.
2022-12-08 01:55:11
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX
Yeah I'm not going to spend hours on citations for a web forum TBH

The people we're talking about supposedly did the most rigourous courses - not just PPE - at the most prestigious universities and yet they have all the reasoning of your average labourer.
Fuck Israel
2022-12-08 02:00:35
uziq
Member
+493|3667
again, they're +25 years on from university now. people cognitively decline even in their baseline stats. if you spend your entire career in the corridors of power, being greased by lobbyists and wining and dining 3 times a week, you're not going to be the intellectual powerhouse you might (or might not) have been when you were 18. do you really think you have the acuity now that you had when you were at imperial? your posts here are not exactly demonstrative of a powerhouse scientist intellectual tbh. i think that's fair to say.

and, again, these people come from a social elite. acquiring prestigious educations is part of their whole game. their parents, grandparents, family wealth, etc, spares no measures in making sure they emerge into early adulthood with the perfect resumé and glittering credentials. getting into oxford and passing with good graces if you went to Eton is an easier feat than if you went to a pleb school on a sink estate in doncaster. this isn't complicated. they have a huge headstart and are highly polished applicants/students by the time they get to these 'venerable' institutions.

does that damn the institution's name? no ... because undergraduate education is a tiny part of what generates a university's prestige. they aren't globally ranked and remarked upon because of how good their undergraduates are, derp. they're judged on their academic research quality, their scholarship, their citations. none of which has anything at all to do with undergraduate teaching!
2022-12-08 06:35:22
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3934

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I don't know very well what British education is like, but US education felt more focused on cramming and test scores than deep understanding and internalisation.
This has largely changed.


In social studies we focus on improving student's ability to understand text and POV through the use of Document Based Questions (DBQs).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document-based_question

https://www.dbqproject.com/dbq-online/

...

The idea of common core math is for students to understand methods to get answers for more complex problems.

https://www.mysunshinelearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/common-core-math.jpg

The process above can be used to find answers for longer addition problems.

I never looked into how common core ELA worked
...

It makes me violently angry when I hear fat stupid Americans complain about liberal math or whatever
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2022-12-08 06:51:27
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6986|PNW

As I understand it, implementation could have been better coordinated with higher education.

I've had family stories passed down of older generations being frustrated with "new math." So at least that part's not new? I imagine it's a bit like being asked by your kid to help with English homework and it's all in Klingon.

If I was a parent, I'd be scrambling to relearn and refresh on a lot of stuff. Not wasting my time whining about "librul maths" and spooking at the shade of CRT.
2022-12-08 07:14:49
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3934
Parents don't even need to learn the new math. Any school district not in a smoldering ghetto will have free tutoring services and supplemental classes.

A lot of people being purposefully ignorant.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg

 

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