Last edited by uziq (2020-05-29 14:07:54)
I like Sulla because even though he was from the conservative party in Rome, he was serious about maintaining the Republic even if he broke it in some ways. He was in fact the first Roman general to march on Rome and did it twice. And he did lead some unparalleled political purges the second time around. But he voluntarily gave up the dictatorship and allowed the political process to return to normal when he instead could have kept control of it like Julius Caesar did. I see some parallels between Sulla and Trump though that of course is an insult to the former. Sulla was the first one to break a lot of political norms and in the future Pompey often argued that "If Sulla could do it, why can't I?" I foresee American politicians in the future especially younger ones making the same argument that "If Trump could do it, why can't I?" Also my inner hipster likes to test pop history nerds to see if they know who Sulla is. You can't tell me your favorite Roman is Caesar if you don't know the guy who signed his death warrant at one point is.uziq wrote:
why sulla?
i, obviously, like juvenal (i.e. roman uzique) and virgil (of the eclogues/georgics, especially).
in terms of actual roman history, the whole julio-claudian saga is great. claudius, nero, caligula, tiberius, etc. not to mention the wonderful shit-stirring ladies.
good answer.SuperJail Warden wrote:
I like Sulla because even though he was from the conservative party in Rome, he was serious about maintaining the Republic even if he broke it in some ways. He was in fact the first Roman general to march on Rome and did it twice. And he did lead some unparalleled political purges the second time around. But he voluntarily gave up the dictatorship and allowed the political process to return to normal when he instead could have kept control of it like Julius Caesar did. I see some parallels between Sulla and Trump though that of course is an insult to the former. Sulla was the first one to break a lot of political norms and in the future Pompey often argued that "If Sulla could do it, why can't I?" I foresee American politicians in the future especially younger ones making the same argument that "If Trump could do it, why can't I?" Also my inner hipster likes to test pop history nerds to see if they know who Sulla is. You can't tell me your favorite Roman is Caesar if you don't know the guy who signed his death warrant at one point is.uziq wrote:
why sulla?
i, obviously, like juvenal (i.e. roman uzique) and virgil (of the eclogues/georgics, especially).
in terms of actual roman history, the whole julio-claudian saga is great. claudius, nero, caligula, tiberius, etc. not to mention the wonderful shit-stirring ladies.
Did you read a lot of Virgil, Cicero, and the Catos? I didn't. I followed mostly the political/military history of it. The only people who should be making poetry is the Sapphos of the world. I did read Plutarch's Parallel Lives.
Thinking it over, it probably is weird that English speaking right wingers make so many allusions to Roman history when their political and cultural history has almost no links to Roman history.uziq wrote:
good answer.SuperJail Warden wrote:
I like Sulla because even though he was from the conservative party in Rome, he was serious about maintaining the Republic even if he broke it in some ways. He was in fact the first Roman general to march on Rome and did it twice. And he did lead some unparalleled political purges the second time around. But he voluntarily gave up the dictatorship and allowed the political process to return to normal when he instead could have kept control of it like Julius Caesar did. I see some parallels between Sulla and Trump though that of course is an insult to the former. Sulla was the first one to break a lot of political norms and in the future Pompey often argued that "If Sulla could do it, why can't I?" I foresee American politicians in the future especially younger ones making the same argument that "If Trump could do it, why can't I?" Also my inner hipster likes to test pop history nerds to see if they know who Sulla is. You can't tell me your favorite Roman is Caesar if you don't know the guy who signed his death warrant at one point is.uziq wrote:
why sulla?
i, obviously, like juvenal (i.e. roman uzique) and virgil (of the eclogues/georgics, especially).
in terms of actual roman history, the whole julio-claudian saga is great. claudius, nero, caligula, tiberius, etc. not to mention the wonderful shit-stirring ladies.
Did you read a lot of Virgil, Cicero, and the Catos? I didn't. I followed mostly the political/military history of it. The only people who should be making poetry is the Sapphos of the world. I did read Plutarch's Parallel Lives.
you don't read any roman literature on lit degrees, normally. it might get covered in a classics or ancient history degree. even virgil and later italian-demotic writers like boccaccio are pretty niche choices. homer is covered as a 'start point' but the romans are sort of skipped over as belonging to antiquity and not as directly relevant to 'english' or whatever. definitely don't read any rhetoricians/orators or anything like that.
No I don't. I am not a big fan of that kind of learning and am pretty skeptical. Pod cast are performance art? I rather read.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
mac do you listen to the Fall of Rome podcast? The host also does the Tides of History podcast. Both very solid. The Fall of Rome podcast is great because he analyzes the decline through reduced economy, trade, disintegrating institutions, etc. Very informative. Guy has a PhD in History and genuinely loves talking about it. I got introduced to it because the host is/was at one point an MMA journalist as well.
I have a copy of marcus aurelius's meditations but never read it. It was assigned in college and I completely skipped it. Stoicism? Rationalism and suppressing emotion? I am probably misunderstanding the whole thing but it doesn't sound for me anyway.Larssen wrote:
The era of the five good emperors has my vote. Perhaps 'boring' to some, but after almost 200 years of non-stop drama, insanity and rampant violence their reign was a welcome respite. Imo they also contend to be the most intelligent & succesful rulers in the history of rome, with many wise lessons on politics, society, economy and just living. Particularly antoninus pius and marcus aurelius. Also diocletian as honourable mention. The legendary reputations of Caesar and Augustus are of course also not undeserved, but their histories are well-known.
Other favourites of mine in roman history that are more gung-ho are the short life of Germanicus and of course the invasion of Hannibal. The latter has always fascinated me, how he pulled all the shit he did was nothing short of incredible.
Thomas aquinas mostly. I mustve read a few others but too long ago to remember anything else. Aquinas was cool.uziq wrote:
have you read any of the church fathers? medieval theology and logic are plenty interesting. you’ll need a grounding in aristotle though. more episteme then you can shake a dictionary at !!!
Oh my goodness I love that YouTube channel. Highly recommendLarssen wrote:
The youtuber Historia Civilis also makes pretty good videos which I can recommend. I think he just got done with the life of Julius Caesar, check out his channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-VjCLR5L-c