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Poll

Do you agree with the gay marriage approval in California?

Yes67%67% - 112
No27%27% - 45
I don't know0%0% - 0
Plead the fifth3%3% - 5
Other? (Please State)1%1% - 3
Total: 165
2015-09-04 06:16:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
I think its more interesting that gen x/y are more fundamentalist and intolerant than they realise.

You're not allowed to disagree with gay marriage

You're not allowed to question multiculturalism

You're not allowed to say drugs are bad

You're not allowed to say a rape victim might have been a bit foolish getting drunk and wandering through a ghetto half naked, even if they occasionally say that themselves

If you do then forget rational debate, the media and gangs of anarcho-hipsters will flash-mob the fuck out of you until you change your opinion for the accepted one.
Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:16:44
uziq
Member
+493|3667
and my point about being well read isn't you read it first before it broke into national consciousness. I'm talking about you ranting about 'my generation' and our social media vapidity. you didn't have social media but you also didn't have Wikipedia. or easy access to journals and world papers. or evidently the initiative to do anything worthwhile with your life. you spent your late adolescence and 20's coasting, lost, but you'll get all portentous and talk about how 'no one takes your generation seriously'. lol give me a fucking break. I'd read and learned more erudition by 21 than you have now in your adult life.
2015-09-04 06:19:28
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Dilbert_X wrote:

I think its more interesting that gen x/y are more fundamentalist and intolerant than they realise.

You're not allowed to disagree with gay marriage

You're not allowed to question multiculturalism

You're not allowed to say drugs are bad

You're not allowed to say a rape victim might have been a bit foolish getting drunk and wandering through a ghetto half naked, even if they occasionally say that themselves

If you do then forget rational debate, the media and gangs of anarcho-hipsters will flash-mob the fuck out of you until you change your opinion for the accepted one.
not a gen x/y thing. it's liberal orthodoxy. liberalism professes to be open and universal, but of course even the concept of universality is ideologically implicit with all sorts of historical and contingent assumptions. this paradox existed at the founding of the French Republic. it was there all through the enlightenment's pretending to 'universal' and 'objective' knowledge (all those french scientists pootering around in Egypt). it was there in imperial social attitudes and pretenses of 'bringing civilisation' to savage societies. liberalism is its own brand of thought with its own bandwagon. you're not being revolutionary by pointing this out. what is smart is to accept that it's probably the best and most pluralistic system of governance and ethics that we have devised thus far.
2015-09-04 06:20:03
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England

uziq wrote:

so instead of acknowledging that it's actually a symbol of the gay rights struggle, you're angry like a ten-a-penny hipster because 'nobody cared about this when it was relevant'. well done jay. walking to work in your hipster backpack declaiming that everyone is shallow.
Pretty much everyone IS shallow. They remain blissfully unaware about the world around them until something becomes popular and they must become instantly knowledgeable in order to not feel left out. I absolutely despise social media activism. Items are picked up and taken out of context, innocent people's lives are destroyed over minor things.

Notice I never defended this woman's actions. She's clearly in the wrong. I just hate the attention she's receiving.

Has Tim Cook spoken out yet? I'm sure he has. He's our gay CEO talking head and he's totally not trying to brandish Apple's image at the same time. He ain't afraid o' nothin.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2015-09-04 06:21:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

I think its more interesting that gen x/y are more fundamentalist and intolerant than they realise.

You're not allowed to disagree with gay marriage

You're not allowed to question multiculturalism

You're not allowed to say drugs are bad

You're not allowed to say a rape victim might have been a bit foolish getting drunk and wandering through a ghetto half naked, even if they occasionally say that themselves

If you do then forget rational debate, the media and gangs of anarcho-hipsters will flash-mob the fuck out of you until you change your opinion for the accepted one.
Yes, this is exactly my point.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2015-09-04 06:22:48
uziq
Member
+493|3667
also dilbert you sound like the typical embittered white male. whining about your Neolithic views. "you're not allowed to say drugs are bad" or "rational debate goes out the window"? lol there are plenty of scientists who argue, quite rationally, for various forms of drug declassification. you're just ranting, it really has nothing to do with a considered critique.
2015-09-04 06:23:47
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

so instead of acknowledging that it's actually a symbol of the gay rights struggle, you're angry like a ten-a-penny hipster because 'nobody cared about this when it was relevant'. well done jay. walking to work in your hipster backpack declaiming that everyone is shallow.
Pretty much everyone IS shallow. They remain blissfully unaware about the world around them until something becomes popular and they must become instantly knowledgeable in order to not feel left out. I absolutely despise social media activism. Items are picked up and taken out of context, innocent people's lives are destroyed over minor things.

Notice I never defended this woman's actions. She's clearly in the wrong. I just hate the attention she's receiving.

Has Tim Cook spoken out yet? I'm sure he has. He's our gay CEO talking head and he's totally not trying to brandish Apple's image at the same time. He ain't afraid o' nothin.
what does this have to do with social media activism?
2015-09-04 06:23:58
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
A test of a democracy is how it reacts to the people who disagree.

Democracy right now is steadily failing, it may not be a gen x/y thing I guess, we're just on a steady trajectory into hipster-fascism.
Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:25:58
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

also dilbert you sound like the typical embittered white male. whining about your Neolithic views. "you're not allowed to say drugs are bad" or "rational debate goes out the window"? lol there are plenty of scientists who argue, quite rationally, for various forms of drug declassification. you're just ranting, it really has nothing to do with a considered critique.
Yes, if I disagree with the liberal orthodoxy on drug legalisation, or any other subject, then I'm by default 'ranting'......'neolithic'....'embittered' and the clichéd winner 'whining white male' - there being nothing worse in liberal doctrine than a white male who expresses an opinion which doesn't fit.

Thank you for proving my point - my personal single-hipster-flashmob friend.

Never mind that it is pretty much exclusively the hated white male who created the world as we know it today, and provided a significant proportion of the population with so much leisure time they can while their lives away studying texts and writing more texts instead of doing something useful and productive.
I honestly wish we - the engineers and technologists  - hadn't done it. I'd rather the average person had to work a 15 hr 7 day week just to eke a miserable existence until they died in childbirth or at 25 if they were lucky.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2015-09-04 06:32:33)

Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:26:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

so instead of acknowledging that it's actually a symbol of the gay rights struggle, you're angry like a ten-a-penny hipster because 'nobody cared about this when it was relevant'. well done jay. walking to work in your hipster backpack declaiming that everyone is shallow.
Pretty much everyone IS shallow. They remain blissfully unaware about the world around them until something becomes popular and they must become instantly knowledgeable in order to not feel left out. I absolutely despise social media activism. Items are picked up and taken out of context, innocent people's lives are destroyed over minor things.

Notice I never defended this woman's actions. She's clearly in the wrong. I just hate the attention she's receiving.

Has Tim Cook spoken out yet? I'm sure he has. He's our gay CEO talking head and he's totally not trying to brandish Apple's image at the same time. He ain't afraid o' nothin.
what does this have to do with social media activism?
It's all phony.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2015-09-04 06:27:31
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

A test of a democracy is how it reacts to the people who disagree.

Democracy right now is steadily failing, it may not be a gen x/y thing I guess, we're just on a steady trajectory into hipster-fascism.
I think it's really only possible to see it if you've lived on both sides of the divide. This is completely normal to them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2015-09-04 06:29:04
uziq
Member
+493|3667
I hope you realise how moronic you sound with all this "most people are shallow and stupid" talk. you sound like a 17 year old who has read Nietzsche or something and thinks he 'gets it' over the media-herded sheeples. well done, jay, your intelligence lords over the abject Facebook statuses of this world. maybe all your friends and milieu on social media are just simpletons?
2015-09-04 06:30:45
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

also dilbert you sound like the typical embittered white male. whining about your Neolithic views. "you're not allowed to say drugs are bad" or "rational debate goes out the window"? lol there are plenty of scientists who argue, quite rationally, for various forms of drug declassification. you're just ranting, it really has nothing to do with a considered critique.
Yes, if I disagree with the liberal orthodoxy on drug legalisation, or any other subject, then I'm by default 'ranting'.
Thank you for proving my point - my personal single-hipster-flashmob friend.
there isn't a liberal orthodoxy on drug use. what orthodoxy? most drugs are illegal. most are banned simply because their recreational use offends social decency and taste, not for a rational or medicinal reason. some scientists or healthcare professionals want some drugs unbanned. others will always remain taboo or unwanted. where's the orthodoxy? what in the fuck are you talking about here?
2015-09-04 06:33:20
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Dilbert_X wrote:

A test of a democracy is how it reacts to the people who disagree.

Democracy right now is steadily failing, it may not be a gen x/y thing I guess, we're just on a steady trajectory into hipster-fascism.
yes, liberal democracy allows pluralism. have you ever been locked up or censored because you disagree with someone's drug use? why are you so afraid of having an unpopular opinion that you'll cry about fascism? you sound like a whinging crybaby. democracy perfectly allows your dissent and distaste. the beauty of it is that it also allows people to continue exercising their own freedom without giving a shit about said distaste. this is what enrages you and causes you to constantly call everyone a hipster – you're lashing out because you stand in the vocal minority on some issues. and then you accuse people of fascism? lol.

Last edited by uziq (2015-09-04 06:34:14)

2015-09-04 06:35:57
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

A test of a democracy is how it reacts to the people who disagree.

Democracy right now is steadily failing, it may not be a gen x/y thing I guess, we're just on a steady trajectory into hipster-fascism.
yes, liberal democracy allows pluralism. have you ever been locked up or censored because you disagree with someone's drug use? why are you so afraid of having an unpopular opinion that you'll cry about fascism? you sound like a whinging crybaby. democracy perfectly allows your dissent and distaste. the beauty of it is that it also allows people to continue exercising their own freedom without giving a shit about said distaste. this is what enrages you and causes you to constantly call everyone a hipster – you're lashing out because you stand in the vocal minority on some issues. and then you accuse pekoe of fascism? lol.
He's not afraid of his government locking him up for disagreeing with orthodoxy, he's pointing out the very real issue of internet mobs completely destroying peoples lives over very minor points of disagreement. There are quite a few people who take pleasure in unearthing every possible detail about people that become targets in order to utterly ruin them. The internet mob is sadistic. It's not rational. It doesn't give a shit about juris-prudence. It only cares about instant gratification.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2015-09-04 06:36:39
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
The prevailing 'liberal orthodoxy' is, and has been for a while, that drugs, starting with cannabis, should be legalised and anyone who says no is a fascist.

Occasionally a medical professional bobs up and gives an opinion and they have praise lavished upon them by the literati and trailer-trash, but its not often.
Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:41:09
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

He's not afraid of his government locking him up for disagreeing with orthodoxy, he's pointing out the very real issue of internet mobs completely destroying peoples lives over very minor points of disagreement. There are quite a few people who take pleasure in unearthing every possible detail about people that become targets in order to utterly ruin them. The internet mob is sadistic. It's not rational. It doesn't give a shit about juris-prudence. It only cares about instant gratification.
The internet mob is only one part, there are real mobs, including the media, who descend on people who dissent.
The modern infotainment infrastructure is being used as a tool for suppression of opinion by the public just as much as by government now.
'The public' are by and large too dim and poorly educated to decide between a Whopper or a Big Mac, giving them powerful weapons which can destroy people who don't fit with the mob has been a mistake.
Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:42:03
uziq
Member
+493|3667
no there isn't a liberal orthodoxy on legalising cannibis. this is a ridiculous pet peeve of yours that you are turning into a straw man argument. in most western societies there is a huge debate raging about marijuana legalisation. ironically the grounds being posited for its use are all stringently rational: medical benefits, no provable harm, rigorous medical study etc. these are the tools at the disposal of the 'pro' lobby. but now you're saying it's some dumb and irrational orthodoxy? Christ my head hurts from all the cognitive dissonance here. you cry that you want rational debate and when healthcare professionals and scientists have a reasoned debate on the pros/cons of weed, you get upset with (some) of their findings. sorry but you can't crowbar the 'rational' tag into arguments when it suits your own judgement.

in any case weed still remains illegal around most of the world, not least in its democracies, so that would suggest the liberal 'orthodoxy', if there is one, is the existing state of affairs.
2015-09-04 06:44:35
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

A test of a democracy is how it reacts to the people who disagree.

Democracy right now is steadily failing, it may not be a gen x/y thing I guess, we're just on a steady trajectory into hipster-fascism.
yes, liberal democracy allows pluralism. have you ever been locked up or censored because you disagree with someone's drug use? why are you so afraid of having an unpopular opinion that you'll cry about fascism? you sound like a whinging crybaby. democracy perfectly allows your dissent and distaste. the beauty of it is that it also allows people to continue exercising their own freedom without giving a shit about said distaste. this is what enrages you and causes you to constantly call everyone a hipster – you're lashing out because you stand in the vocal minority on some issues. and then you accuse pekoe of fascism? lol.
He's not afraid of his government locking him up for disagreeing with orthodoxy, he's pointing out the very real issue of internet mobs completely destroying peoples lives over very minor points of disagreement. There are quite a few people who take pleasure in unearthing every possible detail about people that become targets in order to utterly ruin them. The internet mob is sadistic. It's not rational. It doesn't give a shit about juris-prudence. It only cares about instant gratification.
this is so irrelevant and boring a way to argue. what are you even talking about? witch hunting social media activists? this woman abused a position of power and contravened the law. she abused a legal office. very minor points of disagreement? it's pretty cut and dry. she was in the wrong. why are you crying about people having their lives trashed? sadism? lol wtf. official justice is state mandated punishment.
2015-09-04 06:45:02
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
Why does the pro-lobby, including yourself, immediately resort to name-calling and insults when it comes across a dissenter?
The anti-lobby doesn't really say more than 'nope, don't think so', yet this is enough to create rage.
Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:47:54
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
This is a poor example, and also its not.

'Clerk gets short jail sentence for being stupid' - This isn't really national news, and yet I bet there are 20 newsvans parked in front of her house right now.

The mob has found a dissenter from the orthodoxy and so the howl goes up and the mob descends.
Fuck Israel
2015-09-04 06:48:10
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

He's not afraid of his government locking him up for disagreeing with orthodoxy, he's pointing out the very real issue of internet mobs completely destroying peoples lives over very minor points of disagreement. There are quite a few people who take pleasure in unearthing every possible detail about people that become targets in order to utterly ruin them. The internet mob is sadistic. It's not rational. It doesn't give a shit about juris-prudence. It only cares about instant gratification.
The internet mob is only one part, there are real mobs, including the media, who descend on people who dissent.
The modern infotainment infrastructure is being used as a tool for suppression of opinion by the public just as much as by government now.
'The public' are by and large too dim and poorly educated to decide between a Whopper or a Big Mac, giving them powerful weapons which can destroy people who don't fit with the mob has been a mistake.
funny you talk about technicians and engineers being the only people who have raised humanity out of the ooze, and then you rue giving the dumb plebs weapons. as if engineering and technology since the advent of western society hasn't been a handmaiden to empire and militarism. most of your beloved projects suckled from the teet of totalitarian or chauvinist power regimes. the people offering the ethical framework, legal rules, and philosophical reflection on all those finely engineered tools of scientific death and destruction were.... ah forget it. it's lost on you.
2015-09-04 06:51:06
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Dilbert_X wrote:

This is a poor example, and also its not.

'Clerk gets short jail sentence for being stupid' - This isn't really national news, and yet I bet there are 20 newsvans parked in front of her house right now.

The mob has found a dissenter from the orthodoxy and so the howl goes up and the mob descends.
what's worse, centuries of persecution and burning gays at the stake or news vans holding medieval views up for inspection and saying, 'we don't wish to conduct our affairs like this anymore?'. the woman volunteered to impose her views on other people. she's not a victim of anything. is the media response disproportionate? obviously. but you're acting like there's a bigoted majority out there delighting in breaking this woman down. what a juvenile response.

there's a difference between popular opinion and mob rule. some opinions are popular because we have reasoned that they are good and just. Equal rights and treatment for gay people seems like an eminently decent idea to most people now, thankfully, after years of them living in fear of even more fearful behaviour. certain attitudes and views are harmonious with what we consider 'just'. this news story is really about social attitudes taking a while to catch up with legal justness.

Last edited by uziq (2015-09-04 06:56:03)

2015-09-04 06:52:30
uziq
Member
+493|3667

Dilbert_X wrote:

Why does the pro-lobby, including yourself, immediately resort to name-calling and insults when it comes across a dissenter?
The anti-lobby doesn't really say more than 'nope, don't think so', yet this is enough to create rage.
I am not pro weed legalisation. I have never smoked it in my life and find people who smoke it incredibly lame wasters. this is my opinion. would I want to deny someone their blessed right to do so? nope. because I don't care what other people choose to do with their lives.
2015-09-04 06:52:56
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6931

Dilbert_X wrote:

This is a poor example, and also its not.

'Clerk gets short jail sentence for being stupid' - This isn't really national news, and yet I bet there are 20 newsvans parked in front of her house right now.

The mob has found a dissenter from the orthodoxy and so the howl goes up and the mob descends.
contempt of court is a bit different than a 'jail sentence'.

the only reason it blew up is as zique said, she's the embodiment of the prejudice against gays at a social and 'political' level if you will since shes a civil servant. the judge asked her to multiple times to do her job, she refused and shes crying that shes held in contempt.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

 

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