BF2S Forums You be the judge! Trayvon Martin vs George Zimmerman

Extra Medium wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Extra Medium wrote:

You cannot tell me I'm singling this group of people out because of their disadvantages when there is a group of people in this country with twice as many problems and hurdles that is not even causing a fraction of the bullshit.

please get some perspective. what colour people riot in sweden? france? uk? mexico? spain? greece? brazil? .

I stopped reading right there.  I've said ad nausem in this thread that I am talking specifically about American riots in the past 50 years.  Read my posts.  Understand the context.  Let's attempt to talk about the same thing.  The number of colered people in these countries and their social status is irrelevant because we are, again, talking about America in the past 50 years.  Your logic is such that I wouldn't be able to counter a point such as "Hispanic people riot all the time, look at Brazil."  because it is being taken out of context.  I'm not falling into your apples to oranges logic trap.

all i'm countering is your noxious jeering about black riots, trying to make it a race issue, when it isn't. makes about as much sense to say how most rioters are conspicuously male, and then build some smug feminist critique.

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

and yet you'll talk disdainfully of any sort of progressive or liberal drive to improve social conditions or instate some form of government-structured incentive/welfare... you seem to delight in the "no hope" scenario. perfect randian logic, right? let the shit sink to the bottom and you'll emerge a well-dressed turd quoting all the right kipling lines.

I talk disdainfully of progressive and liberal drives to improve social conditions because they have proven time and time again to do far more harm than good. Black people have undoubtedly gotten a raw deal in America, but meddling by well intentioned people has compounded the problems, not made them better. Their meddling created the urban blight zones that are nearly impossible to get out of. Their meddling created public housing and public housing subsidies that limit them to extremely poor neighborhoods. Their meddling created heavily restrictive zoning laws that are designed to protect the property values of the already well off and push poor people away. Their meddling created minimum wage laws that drove up the cost of living and prevented people from finding work and drove manufacturing and other kinds of labor overseas. Their meddling is now trying to kill charter schools in favor of terrible public schools because unions vote liberal.

Instead of getting the fuck out of the way and letting people empower themselves, they've played the paternal role and made people permanently dependent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. They've created this hell.

wait you blame liberals and progressives for global capital's labour moving abroad? um, not sure how to break this to you... detroit wouldn't last forever even if it was maintained as a fascist city-state.

The unions destroyed the American auto industry.

Jay wrote:

Let's give them government housing subsidies in government housing projects which create blight for miles around them since no one wants to open a business in a neighborhood that has such high concentrations of poor people which in turn makes it impossible for them or their children to ever leave the cycle of government dependency. Oh wait, liberals/progressives already created that mess.

That wasn't the point I was making... the point I was making was it is wrong to collectively blame african-americans for rioting while ignoring their unique and extraordinary status they have had in US history

Also, maybe in Texas extra medium is right about hispanics being poorer then everyone else.  But I wouldn't agree with the statement that they are more fucked over than blacks.  It's just not true.  Hispanics were never enslaved, they were never lynched (at least not in the numbers that blacks were).  They might have been denied the right to vote but Jim Crow specifically targeted blacks.  Its quite disingenuous to argue that there is a group of people lower than blacks in the hierarchy of race in the US.  Of course whenever people point this out people like EM think that we are condoning race riots and violence.... which we're not.  The facts of the situation can exist side by side.

And here comes Jay shoving his political agenda into this.  We were arguing over race riots, not the welfare state....

P.S.  Extra Medium made the point earlier that latinos organize peacefully as opposed to blacks who are violent.  I'm not going to bother posting links, but there have been plenty of peaceful protests by the black community in regards to the Trayvon Martin killing.  Go look it up if you don't believe me.

Last edited by Spearhead (2013-06-30 19:06:51)

Extra Medium wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Extra Medium wrote:

I stopped reading right there.  I've said ad nausem in this thread that I am talking specifically about American riots in the past 50 years.  Read my posts.  Understand the context.  Let's attempt to talk about the same thing.  The number of colered people in these countries and their social status is irrelevant because we are, again, talking about America in the past 50 years.  Your logic is such that I wouldn't be able to counter a point such as "Hispanic people riot all the time, look at Brazil."  because it is being taken out of context.  I'm not falling into your apples to oranges logic trap.

all i'm countering is your noxious jeering about black riots, trying to make it a race issue, when it isn't. makes about as much sense to say how most rioters are conspicuously male, and then build some smug feminist critique.

How can you be so fucking dense to say a RACE RIOT has nothing to do with race?

"race riots" are because one race perceives they are being discriminated against. i would say that is a pretty specific example of a sort of riot. your post spoke about "american riots" in a more general sense, not only the LA race riots. and how does a 'race riot' reflect badly on the rioting race, exactly? race riots occur precisely because one or two races are subjugated unfairly.

On the average though, they tend to be poor and inclined to crime and rioting, and they weren't generally imported to Britain as slaves were they?

I don't generally see the whites rioting though, or too many crime-ridden ghettos created by emigre whites.

Most of America is white underclass, but its the blacks who are quicker to riot.
Explain.

Its true though, except the white underclass tends to be productive and less prone to crime.

I checked some facts, here they are:

                                                    White Black Asian Mixed Chinese or other Not stated/unknown
Population aged 10 and over (2009) 88.6% 2.7% 5.6% 1.4% 1.6% 0.0%
Stops and searches under PACE      67.2% 14.6% 9.6% 3.0% 1.2% 4.4%
Arrests 2009/10                             79.6% 8.0% 5.6% 2.9% 1.5% 2.4%
Prison population (including foreign) 72.0% 13.7% 7.1% 3.5% 1.4% 2.2%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_c … ed_Kingdom

Interesting, blacks are over-represented more than five-fold in the UK prison population whereas chinese are under-represented.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-07-01 05:45:49)

human rights watch:

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-05.htm

The disproportionate rates at which black drug offenders are sent to prison originate in racially disproportionate rates of arrest.72 Contrary to public belief, the higher arrest rates of black drug offenders do not reflect higher rates of drug law violations. Whites, in fact, commit more drug crimes than blacks. But the war on drugs has been waged in ways that have had the foreseeable consequence of disproportionately targeting black drug offenders.

Drug Arrests

The war on drugs precipitated soaring arrests of drug offenders and increasing racial disproportions among the arrestees. Blacks had long been arrested for drug offenses at higher rates than whites. Throughout the 1970s, for example, blacks were approximately twice as likely as whites to be arrested for drug-related offenses. By 1988, however, with national anti-drug efforts in full force, blacks were arrested on drug charges at five times the rate of whites.73 Nationwide, blacks constituted 37 percent of all drug arrestees;74 in large urban areas, blacks constituted 53 percent of all drug arrestees.75

Even greater disparities in drug offender arrest rates have been documented in individual states. For example, Human Rights Watch's analysis of drug arrests by race in the state of Georgia for the years 1990-1995 revealed that, relative to their share of the population, blacks were arrested for cocaine offenses at seventeen times the rate of whites.76 In Minnesota, drug arrests of blacks grew 500 percent during the 1980s, compared with 22 percent for whites.77 In North Carolina, between 1984 and 1989, minority arrests for drugs increased 183 percent compared to a 36 percent increase in white drug arrests.78

have a nice read, berk.

most people in the US and UK prison services are in for petty crime and 'drug' offences, not serious violence or criminal offences. it's hard to do police-work that catches rapists, murderers, and bank robbers. most people in prison are serving short-stints for being caught selling small quantities or drugs, or some such. when you have an urban police force that stops and searches black people far more than whites, of course more black people are going to be caught in that drag-net and sent to prison. i can speak for this myself. i know loads of well-off, well-educated, upper-middle class people who do drugs pretty openly on nights out. go to chelsea on a saturday night and look at the toilet queues. but where are the police doing stop and searches? where are the met 'operations' being carried out? rolling 20 vans down shoreditch high-street. stopping people on the streets in hackney.

Police officers have the power to stop and searches individuals under a range of legislation. Statistics have consistently shown that black people are disproportionately more likely to be subject to stop and searches. In 2008/09 in England and Wales, more black people were stopped and searched under Section 1 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act per head of population than any other ethnicity,[16] and black people were seven times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people.[17]

and let's not even talk about the police-targeting or conviction rates for 'white-collar' crime, financial fraud/misdealings, and whatnot. provinces of crime for the white-ruling establishment. the city is largely untouched, the police will work easier crimes to game their positive stats, in the next neighbouring borough. if you applied the law as harshly to every banker who had broken financial regulations, the prison population would be much more even. but instead the law sees it fit to condemn a citizen as 'worse' for selling a few ounces of weed. but okay.

and where am i talking about multiculturalism? this has nothing to do with multiculturalism or any left-wing ideology. you fucking idiot. all i am saying is that there is no such thing as a racial phenotype for 'criminal behaviour'. just like i rebutted your earlier, equally preposterous claim that black people have a race-gene that makes them 'more violent'. this is pseudo-scientific bullshit. you are a top-class bigot, and a thoroughly contemptible individual.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-07-01 05:56:21)

where did i say imprisoned for use? i said most people in london who get stopped by the met are black people who will get caught with small amounts of drugs to deal. that's a result of the stop and search being used in urban areas with large black populations. the black people get caught more than the whites. it's as simple as that. the number of times i have walked through tube stations with drugs in my pocket, whilst there are also traffic/met police officers at the station, without a care in the world... i know i am not the demographic they are stopping. my clothing brands are too expensive, and i'm the wrong skin colour. that's what i'm talking about.

most of the prison population in the UK are there because of a mixture of anti-social/violent behaviour and drug crime. at least that was the case when i studied law cursorily a few years ago. sexual offences have become big since new labour and the tabloid-era of pedo-raging, as well. again, though, not seeing any black genetics involved here.

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

The factors controlled for included weak school discipline, parenting, strong parental guidance, socioeconomic class, local drug problems, weak local control, siblings in trouble with the police, household size, gender, and family type.

So its cultural then?

Again, why doesn't this afflict the Chinese?