BF2S Forums College discussion thread

trust the guy living at home in his 40's to find remarks about childishness funny.

I agreed many posts ago that postgrad degrees allow for much more freedom and original thought than undergrad. Still, while much can be done in 6-8 months' worth of time, in the vast majority of cases, it takes much longer and years of research to produce genuinely valuable and original work. Not to state that postgrad work can't be valuable or original at all, but that the constraints of time, scope and your knowledge at that point will only allow you to reflect on someone else's work or apply their concepts to a case study (and in that, probably only one or two). That is why I stated that the 'true test' of someone's intellectual capacity comes later; after postgrad, if they continue working as academics.

Shocking wrote:

I agreed many posts ago that postgrad degrees allow for much more freedom and original thought than undergrad. Still, while much can be done in 6-8 months' worth of time, in the vast majority of cases, it takes much longer and years of research to produce genuinely valuable and original work. Not to state that postgrad work can't be valuable or original at all, but that the constraints of time, scope and your knowledge at that point will only allow you to reflect on someone else's work or apply their concepts to a case study (and in that, probably only one or two). That is why I stated that the 'true test' of someone's intellectual capacity comes later; after postgrad, if they continue working as academics.

a full-time master's degree lasts 12 months, not 6-8. part-time takes 2 years. not sure what universe you live in. one that is very poorly researched, anyway. and a person can produce 3-4 pieces of journal quality work in a year if they want to - many full-time career academics do, and they're the exact same journals they are submitting to as the postgrads. and a PhD candidate has 4+ years of this set-up, before they even get their 'minimum bar' doctorate. you can do a lot of journal publishing and conference/seminar/lecture organizing in that time. you can contribute. you are talking nonsense. i was pushed to publish an essay in my third-year of undergraduate, again. before i even started that "ridiculously short" master's.

and again, you raise this nebulous concept of "significant work". some people never produce significant work. in a lifetime. in any discipline. your age or 'the amount of time' you have to do it doesn't really dictate that, ever. it's your ingenuity and talent. some people have their big ideas at age 19. others take a life-time of searching. it's not a regimented thing. some academics have changed their field with their very first book (i.e. their published PhD thesis). a complete game-changer. others diligently work away in the background, revising and honing things, and never make a 'significant' contribution. this has nothing to do with postgraduate education.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-26 06:08:50)

internship during an academic master's degree? introduction? what the fuck am i reading? introduction for master's degrees normally consists of a week or two BEFORE THE SCHEDULED COURSE START to get used to facilities, work expectations, university admin stuff, etc. rofl to round down a year-long degree to "six to eight months" is dumb. just stop.

how the fuck does someone do an internship whilst studying for a research master's? intern where? i don't get it.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-26 06:19:05)

an internship during an academic master's degree? i have literally never heard of such a thing. not even in the states, where graduate students have to do all the mule-work for the senior academics. even there, the MA is a year or two of uninterrupted, pure studying/examination. the PhD is generally when you get given 'extra-curricular' professional activities, asides from your own research. and, again, not very much in europe, compared to the states. that's the sole reason a british/european PhD takes 3/4 years, instead of 6-8. i have never heard of a full-time, year long master's degree being eaten up with 'internships'. to what purpose?

both the taught and research master's at UvA seem to 'miss' this component:

http://www.uva.nl/en/education/master-s … lture.html
http://www.uva.nl/en/education/master-s … earch.html

The Master's programme Literature and Culture comprises 60 ECTS credits:

    42 credits of courses
    18 credits for a Master’s thesis

'full time, 12 months', sure sounds a lot to me like "a short 6-8 month breeze through the topic".

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-26 06:28:20)

the "real deal" of academic research? i.e. the side of research interested in academia, publishing, instruction? so let me get this straight: you go to a university to do an academic master's, to become qualified to become an academic, but whilst you're at that university, doing research, reading, learning, writing... you have to do an internship, to get experienced at the "real deal"? what exactly is the 'real deal' of academia, if the actual research and course material of the degree isn't? lol what the fuck.

i think you're confused, not me. i've been looking at the course structure for many MA's at UvA and none of them have this internship/work experience segment. they are full-time 12 month courses intended for individual instruction. an MA is pretty far off having an academic job or 'employment' of any kind at an institution, so it only makes sense that the 'tutelage' comes later with a PhD. that's how it works in the US and the UK. unless the netherlands really is such an odd, special little snowflake about it (and if UvA seem to be hiding it on their course descriptions and content listings).

Most boring discussion ever.

people talk a lot about 'online learning' and 'the degree becoming virtual', which i personally think is a shit idea. there's a lot to be said for the actual experience of leaving your computer chair and going to a university library, or a lecture hall. even if it's not always the most efficient method of instruction, there's just something about the whole 'being-in-the-mode' of a student that i think leads to all sorts of other forms of emotional and psychological development. you take yourself seriously as a student when you're part of a formal student body in that way. virtual learning i think has about as much capacity for serious deep learning as reading kierkegaard on a kindle.

the world needs more colleges like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coll%C3%A8ge_de_France

incredible concept.