No it isn't, its not as if Apple is dumping headless corpses all over the place.
And yes, I do blame western consumption of illegal drugs for narco-statism.
And yes, I do blame western consumption of illegal drugs for narco-statism.
Fuck Israel
the cartels are formed of ex-paramilitary and rebels. the terrible situation arises from a power vacuum - it's inextricably political, as well. this should be obvious enough: the drug-trade is controlled by a criminal underworld no matter where you are in the world; only in a certain few states has this ended up with out-and-out violence and public unrest. the cartels just do very good business through the drugs trade (a large majority of which, again, is that innocuous weed). and, nope, i'm still not accepting the same level of responsibility for buying a gram of cocaine once every 6 months in the UK, which is probably about 20% south american content, at best, as being on-par with fucking some hooker in the far east.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-17 04:23:51)
If prostitution is legal in Thailand how can you even make the comparison?
The situation arises because the narco-groups have a ton of money and power - more so than the govt - hence the whole system is unstable.
I say legalise it all, let the south american govts take the profit and let the Americans deal with the problem at their end.
I'm not advocating third-world sex-tourism whatsoever, don't tell me the drugs trade is less harmful though.
Obviously there's less immediately obvious exploitation buying drugs in London than effectively raping an illiterate peasant girl but they're not really dissimilar when you look at the whole chain of events.
The situation arises because the narco-groups have a ton of money and power - more so than the govt - hence the whole system is unstable.
I say legalise it all, let the south american govts take the profit and let the Americans deal with the problem at their end.
I'm not advocating third-world sex-tourism whatsoever, don't tell me the drugs trade is less harmful though.
Obviously there's less immediately obvious exploitation buying drugs in London than effectively raping an illiterate peasant girl but they're not really dissimilar when you look at the whole chain of events.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-04-17 04:31:34)
Fuck Israel
i don't really know what legality has to do with concrete personal ethics. are you trying to say something is automatically 'worse' because it is illegal, regardless? so parking on double yellow lines or getting a parking ticket is ethically, unanimously 'worse' than fucking a child hooker? ok. the fact that prostitution may be legal in certain far eastern states just speaks of a fairly major political-legal problem over there, tbh, not all too dissimilar from a narco-state's interior problems. but ok: if a government says something is okay, you won't question its personal ethics at all. i guess anyone doing cocaine in portugal is absolved of all responsibility then.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-17 04:30:17)
hey dilbert, seeing as the caste system is legal in india, and you're a bit of a class warrior... would you say it's better or worse than westerners doing cocaine? what creates a bigger net amount of misery? intrigued to know.
The govt saying something is illegal never slowed you down, what gives you the right to tell people they shouldn't do something which is legal?
In many parts of Asia drug possession or trafficking carries the death penalty, and yet prostitution is legal. Its a different set of morals, don't go there is you don't like it.
In many parts of Asia drug possession or trafficking carries the death penalty, and yet prostitution is legal. Its a different set of morals, don't go there is you don't like it.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-04-17 04:36:02)
Fuck Israel
Do people in the caste system mow down peasants with machine-guns just to prove a petty point to other people in the caste system?Uzique The Lesser wrote:
hey dilbert, seeing as the caste system is legal in india, and you're a bit of a class warrior... would you say it's better or worse than westerners doing cocaine? what creates a bigger net amount of misery? intrigued to know.
they don't, people in the Mexican drug trade do though, you let me know which is more harmful.
Fuck Israel
i dunno, i'd say an entire life lived in crushing poverty and disenfranchisement by a caste system, experienced in the concrete and real, every single day of your life... is probably worse than the chance of being shot. perhaps just my own value-system again, though. plus, you can factor in all of the rapes, the violence, and the systemic abuse suffered by untouchables in indian society. that is actual suffering, too.
and i still firmly believe that sleeping with child hookers or prostitutes forced into their condition by poverty or whatever is a whole lot worse than doing drugs. the vast majority of illegal drugs don't implicate any sort of major drug-war or civil unrest. fucking a hooker is a direct action you take, wholly upon yourself. i don't really see how they are ethically comparable. it is easy to find an alternative to a hooker in a consensual, healthy relationship. people who regularly buy cocaine (again: i'm not really a part of this group you're lambasting) don't have the same sort of forethought or implication in a narco-war; it's not like there's an alternative supply route.
and i still firmly believe that sleeping with child hookers or prostitutes forced into their condition by poverty or whatever is a whole lot worse than doing drugs. the vast majority of illegal drugs don't implicate any sort of major drug-war or civil unrest. fucking a hooker is a direct action you take, wholly upon yourself. i don't really see how they are ethically comparable. it is easy to find an alternative to a hooker in a consensual, healthy relationship. people who regularly buy cocaine (again: i'm not really a part of this group you're lambasting) don't have the same sort of forethought or implication in a narco-war; it's not like there's an alternative supply route.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-17 04:40:24)
They're entirely comparable, I don't suppose you go to the effort of buying Greenpeace approved non-cartel cocaine with a 'no-severed-head' guarantee do you?
I doubt being a peasant-slave for a mexican drug-lord is really much different from being at the bottom of the caste system either.
The death and misery is just a few steps removed from your personal entertainment, its still just as real though. I don't see how you not being there to see it or not having some personal connection with the people involved makes it different.
I doubt being a peasant-slave for a mexican drug-lord is really much different from being at the bottom of the caste system either.
The death and misery is just a few steps removed from your personal entertainment, its still just as real though. I don't see how you not being there to see it or not having some personal connection with the people involved makes it different.
Fuck Israel
Fuckin awesome Dil.
Btw some of those untouchables are damn wealthy.
Btw some of those untouchables are damn wealthy.
How did this thread...
Alpha as fuck.
uuh have you been to india?Ilocano wrote:
Fuckin awesome Dil.
Btw some of those untouchables are damn wealthy.
welcome to bf2s. you really didn't expect people to just talk about you for a few pages, right? we're not neckbreathers from some sniping forum.Nyte wrote:
How did this thread...
speak for yoursel . . . oh wait. ya, welcome to the forum nyte
I'm surrounded by Indians. One of my projects is now fielded by workers in India. In the works another project expanding to India. Most of the people on my big data project are Indians.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
uuh have you been to india?Ilocano wrote:
Fuckin awesome Dil.
Btw some of those untouchables are damn wealthy.
So have you actually been to India?Ilocano wrote:
I'm surrounded by Indians. One of my projects is now fielded by workers in India. In the works another project expanding to India. Most of the people on my big data project are Indians.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
uuh have you been to india?Ilocano wrote:
Fuckin awesome Dil.
Btw some of those untouchables are damn wealthy.
right. indians working in america. the middle-class university-educated indian crowd. so have you been to india? i'd like to see all the rich indian untouchables.Ilocano wrote:
I'm surrounded by Indians. One of my projects is now fielded by workers in India. In the works another project expanding to India. Most of the people on my big data project are Indians.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
uuh have you been to india?Ilocano wrote:
Fuckin awesome Dil.
Btw some of those untouchables are damn wealthy.
I'm quite aware of the caste system and poverty and prejudice. But according to their own words the caste system is slowly getting replaced by the capitalist system. Yes, it's going to take a long time, but it's happening. Disadvantages becoming advantages. Dirty manual labor jobs that other castes aren't allowed to do are becoming opportunities for the Dalits.
And what is the makeup of your circle of Indian contacts? Howmany do you have frank social conversations with?
And what is the makeup of your circle of Indian contacts? Howmany do you have frank social conversations with?
For example. Upper class students are complaining about college admissions because of the reserved slots for Dalits.
And besides I'd have been to India a few times already if Webex and the like tech wasn't as good as it is now.
i had the (mis)fortune of having an office co-worker next to me for my 6 month temp contract who was mad on india. she had spent half of her life there. she spoke about it all the time. several of my university friends went travelling there and ended up in ashrams and doing the himalaya-route thing. they all spoke of crushing poverty and a sub-class of people who are treated basically as non-human. the fact some of your colleagues bitch about 'university places reserved for dalits' is hilarious. how terrible for them. you do realize university places are reserved all over the advanced world for foreign/disadvantaged students, right? i hope they realize that.
regardless, i see very little evidence of "untouchables being pretty damn rich". the vast majority seem to do disgusting work and live in abject poverty. to dismiss their plight as irrelevant because 'capitalisms coming' seems a little naive. as if capitalism takes care of menial workers any more than a socially stigmatizing caste system does.
regardless, i see very little evidence of "untouchables being pretty damn rich". the vast majority seem to do disgusting work and live in abject poverty. to dismiss their plight as irrelevant because 'capitalisms coming' seems a little naive. as if capitalism takes care of menial workers any more than a socially stigmatizing caste system does.
I had an ex who lived in India until she was 10. She said she was from the top caste but was still poor when she lived there. Even had typhoid at one point. She is doing well now. Is a registered nurse at a hospital. Good for her.
Yes the vast majority of Dalits will never leave there position in life. Like everywhere else in the world. But opportunity is much better now for more than it has ever been.
what about all them poor gooks who made their way up from being poor eh?Ilocano wrote:
Yes the vast majority of Dalits will never leave there position in life. Like everywhere else in the world. But opportunity is much better now for more than it has ever been.
like everywhere else in the world? the US has the lowest social mobility in the western world. but don't confuse that with the rest of the advanced western world. the way it generally works in modern democracies is that your birth doesn't determine where you end up. that's kind of the whole point. the main ideal aim and goal of the whole political project. just because america is comparable to the indian caste system, doesn't make it ethically normative. the fact you yourself can now regularly brag about your petit-bourgeois life surely speaks aptly enough to the benefits of living outside a caste system, no? seems fairly hypocritical of you to downplay the suffering incurred by the indian one. "let them eat cake".Ilocano wrote:
Yes the vast majority of Dalits will never leave there position in life. Like everywhere else in the world. But opportunity is much better now for more than it has ever been.
then again maybe your ancestors should have just stayed in asia and you could be bragging about your peasant lifestyle here today.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-17 14:05:14)