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2012-07-18 22:10:21
13rin
Member
+977|6694

Jay wrote:

For the last time, gun crime in the US is not nearly the epidemic you foreigners think it is. Crimes of all types (except drugs) have been in steady decline since 1992. If you don't like our laws or the way we live, don't live here. It's as simple as that. Do you hear any of us nattering on about how Australians should run their country?
I really think it is jealousy.  Our government can't do the things to us as theirs can do to them.  They're oppressed and butt hurt.  We too should be forced to conform to their standards.  Kinda sad as it is something they've lost and instead of liberating themselves, they'ed rather others lose their freedoms and rights too along with them.   Misery loves company? 

But excellent point Jay.  Look at all the of the "US GTFO out of world affairs" posts around here in the last 6 years.  Same shit goes on around the world about us.  But it is funny as they're all so quick to tell us how to live.  They preach about what we should and shouldn't do and what our government should do to and take from us.

You guys need to go bitch at china, iran, syria, north korea... Or post about how great they all have it.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2012-07-18 22:54:28
ROGUEDD
BF2s. A Liberal Gang of Faggots.
+452|5603|Fuck this.

Adams_BJ wrote:

what you have now doesnt work, where as the methods other countries are using (uk and au) clearly are. stop clinging on to a centuries old piece of paper that was written at a time when life was much different to what it is now.
I guess you just think this is a completely useless piece of paper too, huh?


First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Repealed by 28th Amendment.

    Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

    In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

    Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Rendered obsolete by executive order.

*NOTE: All civilian rights now determined by the President of the United States of America.
American Bill of Rights, revised by Adams.

Adams_BJ wrote:

gun ownership shouldnt be a right it should be a priveledge..
No Australian should be able to purchase an air conditioning unit without express, written permission by a federal official. Hey look, I can arbitrarily decide the rights of people who live thousands of miles from me too!
Make X-meds a full member, for the sake of 15 year old anal gangbang porn watchers everywhere!
2012-07-18 23:03:11
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6795|the dank(super) side of Oregon

13rin wrote:

But really if you mandate safes, you place an extra financial burden upon the gun owner.  A financial burden that he may not be able to meet.  Therefore, you are "infringing" upon his 2nd amendment.
You should use that argument to make sales taxes on guns and ammunition illegal.  If someone's too poor to responsibly store their firearms they're too poor to responsibly own firearms.
2012-07-19 00:20:45
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6990|Moscow, Russia

13rin wrote:

Jay wrote:

For the last time, gun crime in the US is not nearly the epidemic you foreigners think it is. Crimes of all types (except drugs) have been in steady decline since 1992. If you don't like our laws or the way we live, don't live here. It's as simple as that. Do you hear any of us nattering on about how Australians should run their country?
I really think it is jealousy.  Our government can't do the things to us as theirs can do to them.  They're oppressed and butt hurt.  We too should be forced to conform to their standards.  Kinda sad as it is something they've lost and instead of liberating themselves, they'ed rather others lose their freedoms and rights too along with them.   Misery loves company? 

But excellent point Jay.  Look at all the of the "US GTFO out of world affairs" posts around here in the last 6 years.  Same shit goes on around the world about us.  But it is funny as they're all so quick to tell us how to live.  They preach about what we should and shouldn't do and what our government should do to and take from us.

You guys need to go bitch at china, iran, syria, north korea... Or post about how great they all have it.
nobody's telling you what you should or shouldn't do. this thread started with this:

Second amendment wrote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
and it's totally obvious to anybody with half a brain that this shit has been obsolete for, like, forever. times change, technologies do too, no "militia" would be able to do anything to government-controlled military these days, it's preposterous to even suggest that. if you insist on clinging to that crap as your "constitutional right" - fine, but at least admit that it has nothing to do with "security of free state", being able to fight "tyranny" or other shit like that. the fact of the matter is - you want to have guns and that's it. if you told me you want to be able to defend you home, property or family - that at least would be kind of sensible, but the way it's stated in the bloody amendment is completely out there.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2012-07-19 00:23:20
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5393|Sydney

13rin wrote:

Jay wrote:

For the last time, gun crime in the US is not nearly the epidemic you foreigners think it is. Crimes of all types (except drugs) have been in steady decline since 1992. If you don't like our laws or the way we live, don't live here. It's as simple as that. Do you hear any of us nattering on about how Australians should run their country?
I really think it is jealousy.  Our government can't do the things to us as theirs can do to them.  They're oppressed and butt hurt.  We too should be forced to conform to their standards.  Kinda sad as it is something they've lost and instead of liberating themselves, they'ed rather others lose their freedoms and rights too along with them.   Misery loves company? 

But excellent point Jay.  Look at all the of the "US GTFO out of world affairs" posts around here in the last 6 years.  Same shit goes on around the world about us.  But it is funny as they're all so quick to tell us how to live.  They preach about what we should and shouldn't do and what our government should do to and take from us.

You guys need to go bitch at china, iran, syria, north korea... Or post about how great they all have it.
LOL
2012-07-19 01:00:48
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|6995|Great Brown North

Adams_BJ wrote:

What do you mean unenforceable? You buy a gun, register it, part of the registration process is you note down what model safe you have.
we have enough targeted break in thanks to stolen registry data thanks

Adams_BJ wrote:

Once the gun has been picked up, a general duties police officer and makes a stop by your house. Checks everything is in order (mounted securely, appropriate specifications for the type of firearm) and ticks it off, taking a whole of 5 minutes. Done. Over. Occasionally they may stop buy and check to see everything is still in order.
we have assigned firearms officers in each detachment, very few of them understand the differences between the storage requirements for the different classes of firearms... now you want beat cops doing it? how about a no.

Adams_BJ wrote:

In the event of a firearms theft, the police come by (sorta like they'd already do, ya know?) and inspect the safe. If there it has obviously been broken into - all good let them continue on their investigation. If it hasn't, then obviously it was stored properly, and you receive a fine and points get taken off of your firearms licence (similar to a drivers licence demerit system)
why are you punishing a victim of a crime?




registries can go fuck themselves, likewise for ANYONE who wants or supports one.

registries have been used for ONE thing in Canada. confiscation by armed police.

Adams_BJ wrote:

Because breaking into a house is so hard..
most marketed gun safes are rated in minutes of protection. minutes.  gone for groceries? say goodbye to your safe


Adams_BJ wrote:

weapons found on a registry (which isn't publicly accessible)
not publicly accessible =/= secure

the RCMP (the people who run the firearms program here in canada) have openly stated that it was breached numerous times and they have no idea how much was stolen.

RTHKI wrote:

police officers arent always the nicest people . . .
they also never have agendas of their own, or dislike certain people...

or you know... have the chance to be corrupted at the offer of money in exchange for registry data (suspected to have happened in at least 3 cases here)




going to sleep now loves <3
2012-07-19 03:03:19
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

[Im on my phone so im not going to bother breaking this up...
Were the letters too small to read as well, or are you really going to conflate people who "want a gun" with people "serious about responsible firearms ownership"?
I run into many people who "want a gun" who I wouldn't trust with a potato peeler.

Do you want to reinstate poll taxes too?
So tell me, in your socialist utopia does the govt provide free driving lessons, free driving tests and a free driving license for life?
Why should access to firearms be any different from access to cars, aeroplanes, yachts etc etc?

Protection is a billion times more important than the faggoty target shooting you do
a) You don't know what I do
b) Reading "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." I don't see any reference to self-defence, playing video-games and mail-ordering gun kits just like the one I 'used' in the game , amassing arsenals of identikit plastic pop-guns which in the unlikely event they do see the light of day won't be used for anything more challenging than exploding milk cartons and fruit at point-blank range, or posting badass videos on youtube.

I'd say what I do is much closer to the definition of patriotism - according to the European model (which preceded the US mutiny and constitution, never mind the amendments), and probably the US model given that promotion of civilian marksmanship is one of the few things the NRA and the govt can agree on - than most people who think they're awsm because they'll be ready to take out the govt with their AR15 loaded with Chinese ammo if taxes go above 38%.

Gone! Every last shred of credibility on the topic.
At least I had some to begin with
Fuck Israel
2012-07-19 05:52:18
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6924|Oklahoma City

Adams_BJ wrote:

Seriously, we are talking about guns. Guns are used for one reason - putting projectiles down range. They were invented with one thing in mind - killing things. All this comparing guns with knives and cars and double ended dildos is irrelevant as their primary purpose is completely different to what a firearms is.

We are talking about responsible gun ownership, and proper storage of a weapon is just as important as not pointing it at people.
The primary purpose for a vagina is sex. I guess if a woman doesn't lock up her vagina properly and gets raped, it is her fault then.

I don't think the other comparisons are invalid at all, especially since there are no amendments on how your right to own a car won't be infringed upon. I think saying you can only own a gun if you meet the following criteria is pretty much infringement. The only infringement I agree with is people who use their weapons to commit felonies. They lose that right in my opinion. But they had the right to begin with.

Now on the flip side of the argument, MY CCW class was very blatant on how it is the gun owners' responsibility to lock up their weapon and keep it safe.

That being said, I don't think it should EVER be the victim's fault when a crime is committed against them, be it rape or stolen gun or stolen car. People should be responsible for THEMSELVES and not for the actions of others. The criminal that stole the gun should be responsible for that. The criminal that used the gun should be responsible for that. The only thing the owner did was own something.

An Asian store selling Japanese swords was recently burglarized here. You don't see people coming out of the woodwork to proclaim them evil for not locking up their swords properly, as the swords primary function is cutting people, and the criminals could now become ninjas an start assassinating people.

I swear, if people don't have something to bitch about, they just aren't happy.

Last edited by HITNRUNXX (2012-07-19 05:52:51)

2012-07-19 06:07:28
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
If you leave your keys in the ignition and the engine running while you pick up your groceries are you partly responsible if someone steals your car?

Or would it just be the non-dur thing to lock the thing and take the keys with you?
Fuck Israel
2012-07-19 06:55:19
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|6924|Oklahoma City
If you leave your gun laying out in the open in a parking lot, I agree you were stupid.

If you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it in your locked garage and someone steals it, then that is a different story.
2012-07-19 07:00:36
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX
If you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it in your locked garage and someone steals it, then that is a different story.
But you'd bear more responsibility than if you'd kept the keys in your pocket right?

Most insurance policies wouldn't cover you for car theft in that situation.
Fuck Israel
2012-07-19 07:25:59
13rin
Member
+977|6694

Shahter wrote:

13rin wrote:

Jay wrote:

For the last time........ great they all have it.
......nobody's telling you what you should or shouldn't do. this thread started with this:

Second amendment wrote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
To get the trolls out of the post a pic of your gun thread. 

Shahter wrote:

and it's totally obvious to anybody with half a brain that this shit has been obsolete for, like, forever. times change, technologies do too, no "militia" would be able to do anything to government-controlled military these days, it's preposterous to even suggest that. if you insist on clinging to that crap as your "constitutional right" - fine, but at least admit that it has nothing to do with "security of free state", being able to fight "tyranny" or other shit like that. the fact of the matter is - you want to have guns and that's it. if you told me you want to be able to defend you home, property or family - that at least would be kind of sensible, but the way it's stated in the bloody amendment is completely out there.
Says you.  From a guy that lived in a communist controlled country you would think.... 


Jaekus wrote:

LOL
I'd laugh too, but I just feel sorry for you.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2012-07-19 08:54:54
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5393|Sydney

13rin wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

LOL
I'd laugh too, but I just feel sorry for you.
Superiority complex, lulz
2012-07-19 10:32:03
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6990|Moscow, Russia

13rin wrote:

Shahter wrote:

13rin wrote:

......nobody's telling you what you should or shouldn't do. this thread started with this:

Second amendment wrote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
To get the trolls out of the post a pic of your gun thread.
wat

Shahter wrote:

and it's totally obvious to anybody with half a brain that this shit has been obsolete for, like, forever. times change, technologies do too, no "militia" would be able to do anything to government-controlled military these days, it's preposterous to even suggest that. if you insist on clinging to that crap as your "constitutional right" - fine, but at least admit that it has nothing to do with "security of free state", being able to fight "tyranny" or other shit like that. the fact of the matter is - you want to have guns and that's it. if you told me you want to be able to defend you home, property or family - that at least would be kind of sensible, but the way it's stated in the bloody amendment is completely out there.
Says you.  From a guy that lived in a communist controlled country you would think....
oh, this again. what does me having a better idea than you about what it's like to live in a communist controlled state has to do with this discussion again?

Jaekus wrote:

13rin wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

LOL
I'd laugh too, but I just feel sorry for you.
Superiority complex, lulz
it's like this "13rin" is another War Man account or something.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2012-07-19 10:37:18
west-phoenix-az
Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does
+632|6604

Jay wrote:

For the last time, gun crime in the US is not nearly the epidemic you foreigners think it is. Crimes of all types (except drugs) have been in steady decline since 1992. If you don't like our laws or the way we live, don't live here. It's as simple as that. Do you hear any of us nattering on about how Australians should run their country?
they just super peanut butter and jelly fish
https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/west-phoenix-az/BF2S/bf2s_sig_9mmbrass.jpg
2012-07-19 11:21:34
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+563|6929|Purplicious Wisconsin

Shahter wrote:

it's like this "13rin" is another War Man account or something.
Because I can totally type 2 posts at the same time in 2 different locations, oh and I can become twice my age.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2012-07-19 11:33:34
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6929|US

Dilbert_X wrote:

If you leave your keys in the ignition and the engine running while you pick up your groceries are you partly responsible if someone steals your car?

Or would it just be the non-dur thing to lock the thing and take the keys with you?
Do you get fined by the police department?  (Seriously, I don't know about your local laws.)

and it's totally obvious to anybody with half a brain that this shit has been obsolete for, like, forever. times change, technologies do too, no "militia" would be able to do anything to government-controlled military these days, it's preposterous to even suggest that. if you insist on clinging to that crap as your "constitutional right" - fine, but at least admit that it has nothing to do with "security of free state", being able to fight "tyranny" or other shit like that. the fact of the matter is - you want to have guns and that's it. if you told me you want to be able to defend you home, property or family - that at least would be kind of sensible, but the way it's stated in the bloody amendment is completely out there.
Do you understand the history and current militia system in the US?  Technically speaking, an extremely large percentage of US citizens are in the militia.
That said, the 2nd Amendment does not talk about the "right of the militia" but the "right of the people."  The security of a free state is the specifically stated reason for the Amendment, but not the only one.
2012-07-19 11:36:39
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England
You're going around in circles here.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-07-19 11:53:32
west-phoenix-az
Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does
+632|6604

Shahter wrote:

no "militia" would be able to do anything to government-controlled military these days, it's preposterous to even suggest that. if you insist on clinging to that crap as your "constitutional right" - fine, but at least admit that it has nothing to do with "security of free state", being able to fight "tyranny" or other shit like that.
How many soldiers do you think are going to follow the order to attack their neighbors, friends, family, and fellow citizens?
They won't come into neighborhoods shooting everything that moves.
The police and soldiers would be ambushed just like in wars. People on both sides will die.
How many soldiers will continue to follow orders after that starts happening?

Firearm registration is required for a successful confiscation. Just look at history.

Times haven't changed as much as some of you wish/think they have. The right is as important now as it has ever been.
https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/west-phoenix-az/BF2S/bf2s_sig_9mmbrass.jpg
2012-07-19 12:47:30
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5474|foggy bottom
im really tired of hearing how so many people go on the assumption that us service members would not fire upon fellow citizens.  all you guys who think that are dead wrong.
Tu Stultus Es
2012-07-19 12:51:30
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5474|foggy bottom
get it? "dead" wrong
Tu Stultus Es
2012-07-19 12:55:28
ROGUEDD
BF2s. A Liberal Gang of Faggots.
+452|5603|Fuck this.

eleven bravo wrote:

get it? "dead" wrong
Well, I'm sure some pyschos would get their rocks off from slaughtering American citizens, but a good portion of my family is, has been, or will be in the military. I'm with wpa on this.
Make X-meds a full member, for the sake of 15 year old anal gangbang porn watchers everywhere!
2012-07-19 12:55:33
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England
I think a bigger issue than gun control is the billions of dollars of equipment that the military has been giving out to cops for the past ten years. Every small town seems to have its very own SWAT team now and there are stories at least once a week of cops shooting innocent people or raiding the wrong house.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-07-19 12:56:54
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5573|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

im really tired of hearing how so many people go on the assumption that us service members would not fire upon fellow citizens.  all you guys who think that are dead wrong.
That only holds up as long as unit cohesion does. I think there would be massive amounts of desertion which weakens that whole 'fight for your battle buddy' mentality.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-07-19 12:57:20
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6712

ROGUEDD wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

get it? "dead" wrong
Well, I'm sure some pyschos would get their rocks off from slaughtering American citizens, but a good portion of my family is, has been, or will be in the military. I'm with wpa on this.
if the military entered my home without consent to confiscate my guns, i'd unload a few rounds.

 

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