I need a help with a sentence from a will

2012-03-17 21:32:31

#1

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

My grandfather passed away a few years ago and long story short it appears that my uncle may have not handled the estate in our best interests and may have pocketed a lot more for himself than he was entitled to.

Anyway, there's this paragraph in the will I'm trying to wrap my head around:

None of my executors and my trustees purporting to act in the execution of the trusts and powers set forth in this my will will be liable for any loss not attributable to their own dishonesty or to the willful commission or omission by my executors and my trustees of an act known by them to be a breach of trust and in particular will not be bound to take any proceedings against a co-trustee for any breach or alleged breach of trust committed by that co-trustee.

2012-03-17 21:35:05

#2

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5930|College Park, MD

legalese is fucking stupid

e: I'm no lawyer but it sounds like your uncle would be a-OK in pocketing more than he was entitled to.

Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2012-03-17 21:35:58)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg

2012-03-17 21:35:32

#3

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

Thanks for your input, helpful as always.

2012-03-17 21:38:16

#4

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5930|College Park, MD

Never mind I misread a "not" in there. It sounds like if there's a loss that IS due to dishonesty or withholding certain info in the will then the person can be liable for it. It's the last bit about breach of trust and whatnot that's confusing.

2012-03-17 21:43:29

#5

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5814

Hurricane2k9 wrote:
legalese is fucking stupid

That said- If I understand it correctly, mind you this me talking, your uncle isn't liable for any losses that weren't the result of dishonesty, cheating, lying, etc.

2012-03-17 21:46:18

#6

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6381|what

Lawyer up. A gaming forum isn't going to give you the legal advice you need.

2012-03-17 21:47:28

#7

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5814

No, but we can try.

2012-03-17 21:51:28

#8

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5930|College Park, MD

someone get dennis

2012-03-17 21:54:28

#9

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

AussieReaper wrote:
Lawyer up. A gaming forum isn't going to give you the legal advice you need.

I will. I just have found all this out literally last night from my cousin (who has no financial interest nor gain from this whatsoever) and as I'm finding this out I'm trying to make sense of it whilst I continue to find out the facts through the proper channels.

2012-03-17 21:55:10

#10

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

Macbeth wrote:
Hurricane2k9 wrote:
legalese is fucking stupid
That said- If I understand it correctly, mind you this me talking, your uncle isn't liable for any losses that weren't the result of dishonesty, cheating, lying, etc.

I thought so too but the way it is worded is confusing.

Last edited by Jaekus (2012-03-17 21:55:53)

2012-03-17 22:06:25

#11

TSI: Cholera in the time of love; +247|6209|Toronto

Nicely worded.

it says this:

The trustee or executor is only liable for loss caused by

1. Their dishonesty
2. Committing an act they knew was a breach of trust (against the estate's best interest)
3. Purposefully not committing an act which they knew would be in the estate’s best interest

The last part is a little more complex, but doesn’t apply if your uncle is the only executor.
Essentially it allows you (if you are a trustee) to undertake legal action against any other trustee for not handling the estate in the best way possible (or the way specified in another part of the will, if there is one).

Further simplified: if your uncle was dishonest, or deliberately acted against the estate's interest, any co-trustee can sue him.

Last edited by TSI (2012-03-17 22:08:13)

I like pie.

2012-03-17 22:20:36

#12

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

That last part is what I need to know.

As it turns out from my understanding of what is in the will (which I have hard parts read out to me, including the OP - my copy will be sent tomorrow in the post) my uncle receives 75% of the estate with the remaining 25% to go to my dad's immediate family (ie. my mother, brother and I). The will was changed in 2003 after my father passed away in 2002.

My pop's house sold for approximately $500k (maybe a bit more). We received in total $18k each, meaning our 25% of $500k should have been collectively $125k, not $54k. Also my cousin said my pop had money in the bank and other assets.

The difficult part is the extra stuff. The house is relatively easy as I can get the sale price and along with my mother's bank statements (she received the money via cheque or bank deposit, regardless the method there is a record) the figure sold and the figure we received can both be proven. My uncle was the sole executor of the estate so it's all on his head. Apparently he wrote out my pop's deceased wife's children out of the will, so they received nothing from the sale of the house.

It's only just at the very beginning of what could be a drawn out process. Really sucks because I thought my whole life my uncle is a really nice guy, but all those little suspicions I had at the time are all of the sudden starting to make sense.

2012-03-18 00:03:25

#13

TSI: Cholera in the time of love; +247|6209|Toronto

Wow, that sounds rather complex. Sorry to hear about your losses, I can imagine it's even worse to have all this mess come of it.

Yes, the last part definitely indicates that he can be sued. The question is by whom; the whole part about trustees being able to sue is dependent on who is designated as trustee (as opposed to executor).

Here's what I think is the key: in my non-professional, non-contractually bound opinion, even if you are not explicitly designated as a trustee in the will, you should be able to mount a fair suit by citing the first line:

will wrote:
"my executors and my trustees purporting to act in the execution of the trusts and powers set forth in this my will"

You are purporting to act in execution of the trusts by attempting to distribute the estate in accordance with the powers of the will.

Now, for the nitty-gritty:

I have to say, I'm a little confused about you saying "the will was changed". Did your grandfather die after your father? If so, that would make sense...but was it changed with your share TO 25% or FROM 25%?

I'm also not sure what you mean by your uncle writing out your pop (father?)'s deceased wife's kids out (do you mean that he convinced your grandfather to do so?)

Either way, it sounds like you ended up with an unfair amount. If he's the sole executor, it is in fact all on his head. Just watch out for his defense--it will likely be along the lines that his 'mistake' was accidental.

You'll definitely have to get a local lawyer on it...I hope you can get it solved.

Last edited by TSI (2012-03-18 00:03:48)

I like pie.

2012-03-18 00:18:06

#14

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

Thanks for that.

My father died before my grandfather, in 2002. After my father passed away the will was changed in 2003 to be my uncle received 75% of the estate with the remaining 25% to go to my mother, brother and I, split in equal thirds. I do not know what the previous will stated but I would assume it was a 50/50 split between my father and his brother.

As for the actual house that was sold, my grandfather bought it with his third wife Flo (the other two had died of cancer) and I think previous to the last will her son/s were to receive half the house being sold. After my father passed his third wife also passed away a couple years later. Perhaps at this time the will was changed by my uncle, or persuaded to be changed. This is unknown to me and is currently (and may always remain) mere specualtion.

Currently talking on facebook to a friend's friend who is a lawyer. He believes I can pursue it but he needs to see the will first. My mum is going to post a copy to me tomorrow.

Last edited by Jaekus (2012-03-18 00:23:29)

2012-03-22 05:41:31

#15

1927: The oldest chav in the world; +2,423|6902|Cardiff, Capital of Wales

I reckon you can pursue it, I know every country has differnt law, and each case is differnt, but Im sure in the UK wills are regulary contested once the deceased has passed

2012-03-22 08:08:55

#16

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|7000|PNW

Suing within your own family is always a nasty business. Be sure it's worth it.

2012-03-22 08:10:55

#17

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

I'm got the settlement figure for my pop's house today. Still waiting on the will. I have a lawyer who said will look over it free of charge and advise me from there.

I'm not going to make any move without a watertight case first. Then I will call my uncle and ask for his side of it, and if what he says does not match up I will say I've been speaking with a lawyer, and go from there. I'm hoping that if it is the case he has committed fraud I can settle out of court.

2012-03-22 14:58:44

#18

Graphic-J: The Artist formerly known as GraphicArtist-J; +196|6354|So Cal

My best advise is to get "their" best advice:

http://www.avvo.com
...
Lawyers answer questions for free. Crazy but true.

2012-03-22 15:02:00

#19

TSI: Cholera in the time of love; +247|6209|Toronto

Jaekus wrote:
I'm got the settlement figure for my pop's house today. Still waiting on the will. I have a lawyer who said will look over it free of charge and advise me from there.

I'm not going to make any move without a watertight case first. Then I will call my uncle and ask for his side of it, and if what he says does not match up I will say I've been speaking with a lawyer, and go from there. I'm hoping that if it is the case he has committed fraud I can settle out of court.

Good man. Out of court would be far better for all involved.

I like pie.

2012-03-22 17:55:12

#20

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6809|the dank(super) side of Oregon

was there a mortgage on the $500k house?

2012-03-22 18:04:26

#21

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5814

TSI wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
I'm got the settlement figure for my pop's house today. Still waiting on the will. I have a lawyer who said will look over it free of charge and advise me from there.

I'm not going to make any move without a watertight case first. Then I will call my uncle and ask for his side of it, and if what he says does not match up I will say I've been speaking with a lawyer, and go from there. I'm hoping that if it is the case he has committed fraud I can settle out of court.
Good man. Out of court would be far better for all involved.

Eh?

Family will still hate him anyway. Mark my words.

2012-03-22 18:27:54

#22

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6381|what

Macbeth wrote:
TSI wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
I'm got the settlement figure for my pop's house today. Still waiting on the will. I have a lawyer who said will look over it free of charge and advise me from there.

I'm not going to make any move without a watertight case first. Then I will call my uncle and ask for his side of it, and if what he says does not match up I will say I've been speaking with a lawyer, and go from there. I'm hoping that if it is the case he has committed fraud I can settle out of court.
Good man. Out of court would be far better for all involved.
Eh?

Family will still hate him anyway. Mark my words.

Court last longer, costs more. More hate generated.

2012-03-22 19:17:57

#23

TSI: Cholera in the time of love; +247|6209|Toronto

AussieReaper wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
TSI wrote:

Good man. Out of court would be far better for all involved.
Eh?

Family will still hate him anyway. Mark my words.
Court last longer, costs more. More hate generated.

This. And besides, it sounds like he wasn't the only one cheated out of his share.

I like pie.

2012-03-22 19:27:12

#24

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5814

I'm just saying, don't expect everything to be with your family afterward. That's all

2012-03-22 21:30:16

#25

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5407|Sydney

The house was owned outright. I'm not expecting my uncle to talk to me again if this comes to a head, but as it stands if he has in fact ripped us off I'm prepared to cut him from my life.

BF2S Forums I need a help with a sentence from a will

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

will wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

TSI wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

TSI wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

TSI wrote:

Board footer