but aimed specifically @ Americans. What do yall think?
Poll
Should flag burning be illegal?
| yes | 32% | 32% - 43 | ||||
| no | 31% | 31% - 42 | ||||
| fuck no | 36% | 36% - 49 | ||||
| Total: 134 | ||||||
I'm surprised that, after harping on about all the great freedoms in the US, you even ask this question.
its justa piece of fabric. if they flags were handwoven and not massed produced, maybe. as it stands though, we see the american flag plastered on everything. Most actual american flags are machinemade and pumped out by the thousand.
ofcourse you would, thats why i dont bother with reading your posts any more. You really think you got everything figured out huh?Bubbalo wrote:
I'm surprised that, after harping on about all the great freedoms in the US, you even ask this question.
I'm just confused as to why, if America is free for everyone to say whatever they like, everyone who disagrees with you should move overseas. I'm also confused as to why people shouldn't be allowed to show their dislike by burning a flag.
I'm also confused as to how you responded to my post without reading it.
I'm also confused as to how you responded to my post without reading it.
and I am very confused as to your confusion over the original stated question on whether or not flag burning should be allowed. I am interested in what peoples opinions on this are. The question is simple, it is just a question. Why would you be surprised at me asking a question?
I just though it wouldn't have crossed your mind. Also, the lack of any discussion in you initial post leads me to believe you think it *should* be illegal. What is you stance, btw?
I believe it should not be against the law to burn your nations flag. But I would still end up catching an assault case if I saw somebody doing that, breaking the law myself.
Yeah, that sounds like you. Just be careful of my jaw, it's a bit tender already .
scratches head
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
Actually, I'm going to have to go back on my earlier statement Gunslinger. If America is as free as you say, people should be able to burn the flag *without* being attacked. What do America, Iraq (pre-invasion), and the USSR have in common? Democratically elected parliaments. It's just that in Iraq if you voted the wrong way you might end up dead, and in the USSR there was only one party. A country's freedom depends not only upon its' laws, but also its' ability and willingness to enforce those freedoms. If America cannot defend the freedom of citizens to disagree, it is as bad as anywhere else.
You can't have true freedom until you have the freedom to criticize your own country. Why anyone would want to ban a statement as powerful as that in "the land of the free" is beyond me. I guess to most "patriotic" Americans, the freedom to leave the country supercedes all other freedoms when it comes to criticizing the government.
Last edited by mikkel (2006-05-22 00:33:44)
So.......they aren't really free to do it are they? I have the freedom to do whatever I want, wherever I want. It's just that if I do it in some places, i.e. critising Mugabe in Zimbabwe, I'll likely die. That means that everywhere in the world is as free as America.rdx-fx wrote:
I will wholeheartedly also support Gunslinger's freedom to beat the living crap out of a flag burner.
So you'll fight to the death for another man's freedom to express himself by burning a flag, but you don't mind at all if he'd be attacked for using those rights that you fought so hard for? Isn't that rather counter-productive?rdx-fx wrote:
I will wholeheartedly also support Gunslinger's freedom to beat the living crap out of a flag burner.
Last edited by mikkel (2006-05-22 00:50:18)
Tis only a bit of fabric, even if it does symbolise a country
And so how is the flag-burner freer in America than anywhere else? The fact that Gunslinger is under arrest doesn't change the fact that the other guy got beaten up.rdx-fx wrote:
Using the existing hypothetical example;
You burn an American flag..
Gunslinger beats the crap out of you..
Police arrest Gunslinger for assault..
What's your point?<{SoE}>Agamemnar wrote:
It's a flag... a piece of material. They aren't burning babies.mikkel wrote:
So you'll fight to the death for another man's freedom to express himself by burning a flag, but you don't mind at all if he'd be attacked for using those rights that you fought so hard for? Isn't that rather counter-productive?rdx-fx wrote:
I will wholeheartedly also support Gunslinger's freedom to beat the living crap out of a flag burner.
A flag is a symbol, and symbols are subject to any use in order to promote or further a cause. And the 1st Amendment allows flag burning...I say no.
I am against flag burning. Having said that, if Microsoft had flag, i would be burning it in the streets of Sydney
Last edited by Cold Fussion (2006-05-22 01:23:39)
I'm sorry, beating someone up is allowed under freedom of expression now? So, why jail anyone? They're all just expressing their base desires.
I voted no, but if you burn a flag, or desicrate and/or destroy any symbolic piece, that isn't at all a productive way to show your dislike with someone/something. In destroying this object, all you are doing is purposely offending someone and you deserve what you get. If your next door neighbour installs a new swimming pool and you don't like the idea because of the chlorine or whatever, taking a huge dump in said pool isn't gunna help anything, it will just piss someone off.
Karma away, i haven't had any yet
Karma away, i haven't had any yet
And I ask you how, then, America is any different from any dictatorship in which there is no freedom of expression.rdx-fx wrote:
Succinctly put, that's exactly the core of our disagreement - appropriate consequence for an action. jail for physical assault. A few bruises and injured pride for burning an American flag.