We did our part. USSR wouldn't last much longer without our supplies, not to mention we forced Germany to fight in two fronts.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
the thing is, he shouldn't have to.Shocking wrote:
Wasn't Roosevelt trying to find an excuse to jump into WW2?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
It was necessary because he had to sell the war to the American public. He'd get in trouble with Congress and the American people if he simply decided to barge in. The Americans looked to WW2 as the Europeans now do to Iraq/Afghanistan: "not our problem".
inane little opines
yeah, yeah, and then you sent everybody you "helped" a bill for your services.War Man wrote:
We did our part. USSR wouldn't last much longer without our supplies, not to mention we forced Germany to fight in two fronts.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
he shouldn't have to.Shocking wrote:
he had to sell the war to the American public.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
In a democracy ignoring the democratic process poses a problem if you want to get anywhere.
inane little opines
So he should just dictate his whims to the public? Obama should be allowed to declare war on his own?Shahter wrote:
he shouldn't have to.Shocking wrote:
he had to sell the war to the American public.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Republic, shocking, republic
Not Russia, but hey. WW1 gave us nothing while we gave a shit ton, how'd you feel?Shahter wrote:
yeah, yeah, and then you sent everybody you "helped" a bill for your services.War Man wrote:
We did our part. USSR wouldn't last much longer without our supplies, not to mention we forced Germany to fight in two fronts.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
fuck democracy. there are times when decisions have to be made disregarding how full the stomachs are. i bet roosevelt didn't have to sell anything to his public when "enlightened west" invested hugely into nazies. but when the abomination they created got loose - suddenly, they remembered "democratic process". pffft.Shocking wrote:
In a democracy ignoring the democratic process poses a problem if you want to get anywhere.
Last edited by Shahter (2011-06-24 16:27:50)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
"not russia"? oh, i forgot, you've no education whatsoever. well, i don't care either way.War Man wrote:
Not Russia
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Nation wasn't NAZI when USA helped Germany recover while France and Britain were being dicks to Germany.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
USSR and Russia are the same land and people, therefore I can say Russia instead of Soviet Union.Shahter wrote:
"not russia"? oh, i forgot, you've no education whatsoever. well, i don't care either way.War Man wrote:
Not Russia
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
Every form of government has its problems. In ours, the country is controlled by the masses.Shahter wrote:
fuck democracy. there are times when decisions have to be made disregarding how full the stomachs are. i bet roosevelt didn't have to sell anything to his public when "enlightened west" invested hugely into nazies. but when the abomination they created got loose - suddenly, they remembered "democratic process". pffft.Shocking wrote:
In a democracy ignoring the democratic process poses a problem if you want to get anywhere.
inane little opines
When USSR first started, it was the same land and people. They then conquered Eastern Europe
Last edited by War Man (2011-06-24 16:35:33)
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
it doesn't matter how many time you say this mantra - it won't change the fact that your "masses" have fuck all to do with controlling so called "western democracies". but that's beside the point of the later part of this discussion. you already posted everything that actually matters:Shocking wrote:
Every form of government has its problems. In ours, the country is controlled by the masses.
Shocking wrote:
But really now participating in the war is the best thing you could've possibly done. Economically and politically.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
No Japan attacking pearl was.Shocking wrote:
uh what shahter? okay.
Wasn't Roosevelt trying to find an excuse to jump into WW2? Germany declaring war was perfect.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Germany's declaration of war just gave him more reason to get involved in the European theater is my guess. Hitler really didn't give much of a toss about the Japanese.
inane little opines
Actually, the masses have lots to do with how the 'western democracies' are controlled.Shahter wrote:
it doesn't matter how many time you say this mantra - it won't change the fact that your "masses" have fuck all to do with controlling so called "western democracies". but that's beside the point of the later part of this discussion. you already posted everything that actually matters:Shocking wrote:
Every form of government has its problems. In ours, the country is controlled by the masses.Shocking wrote:
But really now participating in the war is the best thing you could've possibly done. Economically and politically.
I did, but you're trying to twist it by demonizing them for it. The reality of the situation was that Roosevelt wanted to get involved but he couldn't. As long as the Germans didn't directly provoke the US there was no way he could've done anything about WW2. There's an example of the masses controlling the 'western democracies', the people didn't want that war and there's nothing that one man could've done about it.
Other than that, as far as I'm concerned the lend lease was a fair deal. The only reason the US came out on top is because they were lucky to be at the other side of the planet. Good on them.
inane little opines
I still believe Germany can turn it around in the final quarter
their pacifist demeanor is just a smokescreen
inane little opines
they've been lying low all these years to spring an ambushShocking wrote:
their pacifist demeanor is just a smokescreen
i'll let you live your life in this fairytale - who am i to crush your dreams with my "evil commie and silly marxist" rhetoric. but let me put it into perspective for you:Shocking wrote:
Actually, the masses have lots to do with how the 'western democracies' are controlled.Shahter wrote:
it doesn't matter how many time you say this mantra - it won't change the fact that your "masses" have fuck all to do with controlling so called "western democracies". but that's beside the point of the later part of this discussion. you already posted everything that actually matters:Shocking wrote:
Every form of government has its problems. In ours, the country is controlled by the masses.Shocking wrote:
But really now participating in the war is the best thing you could've possibly done. Economically and politically.
I did, but you're trying to twist it by demonizing them for it. The reality of the situation was that Roosevelt wanted to get involved but he couldn't. As long as the Germans didn't directly provoke the US there was no way he could've done anything about WW2. There's an example of the masses controlling the 'western democracies', the people didn't want that war and there's nothing that one man could've done about it.
remember how easily they sold the first gulf war to their public? you know, "a horrible dictator attacked a peaceful nation, jedi have to interfere". you know how many people - civilians - were killed by nazies on occupied soviet territories while roosevelt was trying to get through the "democratic process"? i'll let you google that, see if you can hold your supper in when you find out.
if you don't account all the lives that's been lost - i guess. a fair deal. still, soviets told them to stick most of their "fair deal" right where the sun doesn't shine and i can't say i blame them.Other than that, as far as I'm concerned the lend lease was a fair deal. The only reason the US came out on top is because they were lucky to be at the other side of the planet. Good on them.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
I'd call it silly rhetoric yeah, but thanks.
US's change of stance in foreign policy after WW2 has A LOT to do with that. Their active involvement in the cold war etc. The public was much more willing to get involved in a conflict overseas than it was back then.
Lots of Russians were dying, they didn't care. People individually may be social but when they start forming groups selfishness = the norm.
US's change of stance in foreign policy after WW2 has A LOT to do with that. Their active involvement in the cold war etc. The public was much more willing to get involved in a conflict overseas than it was back then.
Lots of Russians were dying, they didn't care. People individually may be social but when they start forming groups selfishness = the norm.
Last edited by Shocking (2011-06-24 17:16:45)
inane little opines
War profiteering is a dirty business and everyone's guilty of it.Shahter wrote:
if you don't account all the lives that's been lost - i guess. a fair deal. still, soviets told them to stick most of their "fair deal" right where the sun doesn't shine and i can't say i blame them.Other than that, as far as I'm concerned the lend lease was a fair deal. The only reason the US came out on top is because they were lucky to be at the other side of the planet. Good on them.
inane little opines
What Shahter doesn't understand is the strength of the pacifist/isolationist movement in the US during the interwar years. Roosevelt was doing everything he could to help the European powers short of committing forces, which he couldn't do because of said movement. In fact, that movement was pushing to hold Roosevelt accountable for the aid we were providing, which led to Lend Lease (as opposed to just "giving it away"). It was a tightrope Roosevelt was walking (irony, I know), and until Japan attacked, he was perilously close to Congress revolting against him because of it. He worked much of it "backchannel" through the War Department so that Congress and the public wouldn't notice.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular