BF2S Forums Here's something YOU can do for our Military

whittsend wrote:

Torin wrote:

A decision to join the military is a decision to support the president's military decisions, which is what I don't agree with.....

You are incorrect on this one.  A decision to join the military is a decision to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, and to obey the orders of the officers appointed above you.  It is not a political decision, it is a personal one.

I was in the army for 12 years, and during that time I was deployed to Somalia, Haiti, and Iraq.  Each one of those conflics was one that I thought the US would have been better off staying out of.  Nevertheless, I went, and I did my job to the best of my ability.  Why?  Because that is what I swore to do.

The Military does not exist to make policy, or to validate policy; it is a tool used in the execution of policy.  As the old line goes, "We are here to preserve democracy, not to practice it."  By serving in the military during a time of conflict, you are not validating your President's policies, you are expressing your love of country.  I did not render my service for the President or his agenda, I did it for the soldier beside me, and so that the people I loved at home wouldn't have to.

And that's where we differ in how we view the military.

It's not a matter of being right or wrong. This is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact.

It doesn't have to be a personal decision. Many people join the military I'd imagine for a lot of different reasons, and you and I happen to have different reasons for why we would join the military.

Last edited by Torin (2006-05-10 13:26:06)

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

the S in LDRSHIP

Selfless service.  If you can't do it, don't join.  At least he recognizes that he can't do it.

Torin wrote:

It doesn't have to be a personal decision. Many people join the military I'd imagine for a lot of different reasons, and you and I happen to have different reasons for why we would join the military.

Where you're missing out is that it is always a personal decision. Anyone in the US can go sit under a bridge and rot rather than join the military. All these personal decisions are what prevent our government from reinstituting the draft. Anyone not wanting to serve with the military should be thankful for that.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Torin wrote:

It doesn't have to be a personal decision. Many people join the military I'd imagine for a lot of different reasons, and you and I happen to have different reasons for why we would join the military.

Where you're missing out is that it is always a personal decision. Anyone in the US can go sit under a bridge and rot rather than join the military. All these personal decisions are what prevent our government from reinstituting the draft. Anyone not wanting to serve with the military should be thankful for that.

I was debating the personal vs. political decision statement. For me, a decision to not join the military would be a political decision, as opposed to a personal one. In the more general sence, yes, a political decision is still a personal decision, but that wasn't what I was debating.

But, where I can debate it being a personal decision is this: It is a selfless profession, so while you personally made the decision, it is not about you, it's about your country.

Anyways, it's all semantics at this point.

@yerded: Don't think me a peace/love type, not necessarily implying that you are.. but, I think there is proper and inproper use of the military. The current use of the military in Iraq I completely disagree with, and as such, would never voluntarily join/contribute to the effort.

And as yerded says, those opposed to the draft and military should be the first to make life easier for the troops. I completely agree.

I honestly think that short of an actual world war 3, there will never be a draft. I think there would be an uprising like never seen before if they re-instituted the draft.

I'm no pacifist, I just disagree with abusing the people willing to serve in the military, and disagree with the whole decision to go to Iraq. Had the military instead concentrated on finding Bin Ladin, I'd support it. I supported going to Afghanistan, and still do. But, since it seems like going to Afghanistan was merely a reason to transition to the Iraq invasion, and they seemingly gave up completely on finding Bin Ladin, being in Iraq seems even more shady. Anyways, not trying to turn this into another Iraq debate, but these are the reasons I think the way I do about the military and joining it.

Bubbalo wrote:

And who'll be sending care packages to the other side?

U.S. Army soldiers, but the packages are only gonna be 5.56 mm in size

Torin wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Torin wrote:

It doesn't have to be a personal decision. Many people join the military I'd imagine for a lot of different reasons, and you and I happen to have different reasons for why we would join the military.

Where you're missing out is that it is always a personal decision. Anyone in the US can go sit under a bridge and rot rather than join the military. All these personal decisions are what prevent our government from reinstituting the draft. Anyone not wanting to serve with the military should be thankful for that.

I was debating the personal vs. political decision statement. For me, a decision to not join the military would be a political decision, as opposed to a personal one. In the more general sence, yes, a political decision is still a personal decision, but that wasn't what I was debating.

But, where I can debate it being a personal decision is this: It is a selfless profession, so while you personally made the decision, it is not about you, it's about your country.

Anyways, it's all semantics at this point.

@yerded: Don't think me a peace/love type, not necessarily implying that you are.. but, I think there is proper and inproper use of the military. The current use of the military in Iraq I completely disagree with, and as such, would never voluntarily join/contribute to the effort.

And as yerded says, those opposed to the draft and military should be the first to make life easier for the troops. I completely agree.

I honestly think that short of an actual world war 3, there will never be a draft. I think there would be an uprising like never seen before if they re-instituted the draft.

I'm no pacifist, I just disagree with abusing the people willing to serve in the military, and disagree with the whole decision to go to Iraq. Had the military instead concentrated on finding Bin Ladin, I'd support it. I supported going to Afghanistan, and still do. But, since it seems like going to Afghanistan was merely a reason to transition to the Iraq invasion, and they seemingly gave up completely on finding Bin Ladin, being in Iraq seems even more shady. Anyways, not trying to turn this into another Iraq debate, but these are the reasons I think the way I do about the military and joining it.

I would submit that enforcing a no fly zone in north and south Iraq is occupation.  Why is it that so many were okay with American's occupation of Iraq during Clintons time? Do they not realize that during those 8 years there was almost weekly bombing attacks on Iraqis using our Jets. Do they not realize that Clinton policy was effectively to prolong the conflict, leaving it for somebody else to deal with. Every week it was the same; " U.S. and Coalition jets attacked Iraqi radar sites "
    This cost billions of dollars, dozens of U.S services lives and was no real policy at all.  After 9-11 the time had come to conclude the mission and end the occupation.  We didn't just decide to go to Iraq, we were already there and occupying 2/3rds of the country.  The decision was to wrap it up.

Never think our men are dying in a worthless war. There is WAAAAAYYYYYYYY more at stake here than oil. Our boys need you to believe in the mission. You can't support the troops but not supoort the mission. They don't exist exclusive of each other. Also, politicians should NEVER be trusted with an opinion about the war; politicians are soulless whores who can NEVER be trusted with things as sacred as soldiers lives.  To believe national embarassments like Ted Kennedy when it comes to things like the war is a failure and disservice to the nation.

     BACK ON TOPIC; there are many threads to debate the war and war policy.
     Can the bf2s community unite, organize as a clan and donate to a charity that supports our troops?
     Put me down for the first $50.00.

"I honestly think that short of an actual world war 3, there will never be a draft. I think there would be an uprising like never seen before if they re-instituted the draft."

According to the potus this is world war three and Democrat senators have proposed reinstituting the draft, it could happen and it probably wouldn't be the "evil" republicans that did it.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Torin wrote:

But, where I can debate it being a personal decision is this: It is a selfless profession, so while you personally made the decision, it is not about you, it's about your country.

Actually, it would have everything to do with you. When you choose to join the military, you're giving up alot of your civilian rights and freedoms for your country, for as long as you're in service. There are few things more 'personal' than that.

So, how much of a pledge can we put you down for?

I suggest we talk chuy into managing a account. The proceeds could be donated in bf2s.com's name. Perhaps he could get a tax break?
Mods?
http://www.abraingutters.com/bf2sadoptabattalion.html

Let me guess, care packages with false bottoms and dvd porn?
That was #1 on my list of things to send.
Lets get it done people

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

U.S. Army soldiers, but the packages are only gonna be 5.56 mm in size

So........invasion forces get food, natives get killed?  It's like colonialism only without the profiteering.  Oh, wait.........

And what about the actualy natives?  And besides, they're a whole lot more native than westerners.

Yes, because they have good reason to trust America.  Totally.