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2006-03-29 17:49:30
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6883|USA
I see the term "liberal" thrown around these forums alot and was wondering everyones own definition. Its seems to be pretty open to interpretation....depending on who is saying it.

I gather from these forums.....

If you are against Righty Repubs.....you are liberal. And thats bad.

Is this a correct assumption?

Is liberal justifiably demonized in the USA?


-Mason-
2006-03-29 18:00:35
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
lib•er•al
adj.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

It's not bad, it's just negatively viewed by a lot of the Conservative right-wingers on the site.  Political liberals tend to lean towards the Left wing of political ideology, while the majority of conservatives lean towards the Right wing, so naturally they are opposed to anything that the Left favors.

To illustrate the wing terminology:

<Radical-----Liberal-----Moderate/Centrist-----Conservative-----Reactionary>
2006-03-29 18:05:12
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6883|USA
Thats how I see it Marconious. Thank you for the wonderful explanation. Now I am trying to figure out why the negative conotation. Who/Why demonize such a great sounding (by definition) thing?
2006-03-29 18:17:42
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
Well, let me give you the antonym to Liberal.

con•ser•va•tive
adj.
Favoring traditional views and values; resistant to change.
Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
Opposed to liberal reforms.
Bourgeois/materialistic.

Conservatives tend to not want direct progressive reforms on "tried and true" aspects of a system.  If there must be change, it needs to be slow and gradual.  Conservatives are opposed to liberal reforms as most of the reforms are created for fast change.

Both sides of thought caught on to American political parties, and both parties will do anything to prove that they are more correct, therefore both sides are basically out to demonize each other.  Liberals want compromise to progress the government, Conservatives won't budge as they feel everything was fine as it was and should even go back to what is was before.  Liberals tend to want a stronger, more central government run by the people, and Conservatives tend to want a smaller, more privatized government, offering more control to corporations. 

It also doesn't help that we have been caught in a whirlwind of unjust and questionable actions in the White House, and the line between Patriotism and Nationalism is constantly being erased.  War tends to bring out the worst in people, and political polarization is constantly pushed and attacked here.
2006-03-29 18:22:18
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6883|USA
Well said. So are you a liberal by self definition Marconius?
2006-03-29 18:31:49
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
Yeah, I am.  Here's where I'd be on my little illustration:

<Radical-----Liberal-V----Moderate/Centrist-----Conservative-----Reactionary>

I have a few moderate tendencies, but otherwise I prefer the Left ideology.
2006-03-29 19:14:55
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6883|USA
Well met bro.
2006-03-29 20:11:47
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6858|Westminster, California
Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
2006-03-29 20:15:40
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865

yerded wrote:

Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
you sir, are retarded.  do NOT pro-create........ please.
2006-03-29 21:04:41
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6896|Canberra, AUS

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yerded wrote:

Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
you sir, are retarded.  do NOT pro-create........ please.
Why can't we get more 'conservatives' like this?!
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-03-29 21:53:19
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6872|USA

Marconius wrote:

lib•er•al
adj.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
see also communist
see also socialist
2006-03-29 21:58:46
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6858|Westminster, California

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yerded wrote:

Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
you sir, are retarded.  do NOT pro-create........ please.
Too late, oh and by the way, your name is on the list
2006-03-30 01:16:44
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
For lowing:

so•cial•ism
noun
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

An economic system based on State ownership of capital.

--------------------

I find no problems at all with Socialism.  I have a problem with the conservative right idea of corporations and conglomerates running a privatized country, especially as that road leads towards Authoritarianism and eventually Totalitarianism.

------------

com•mu•nism
noun
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

A form of socialism that abolishes private ownership.  A political theory favoring collectivism in a classless society.

----------------

I'd prefer that economic style of government merged with democratic practices rather than a totalitarian and privatized regime.  Socialism pulls society away from it's drive to maximize profits and pushes them towards focusing on each other.  Capitalism is a step for a country to build up, well, it's capital before the transition towards Socialism or Social Democracy.  Right wingers don't want this to happen, as the avarice generated by businesses attempting to create as much capital as possible causes them to keep going, to put down any attempts to then stop the privatization and force them to drop their monetary capital back into the society.
2006-03-30 05:42:26
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6872|USA

Marconius wrote:

For lowing:

so•cial•ism
noun
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

An economic system based on State ownership of capital.

--------------------

I find no problems at all with Socialism.  I have a problem with the conservative right idea of corporations and conglomerates running a privatized country, especially as that road leads towards Authoritarianism and eventually Totalitarianism.

------------

com•mu•nism
noun
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

A form of socialism that abolishes private ownership.  A political theory favoring collectivism in a classless society.

----------------

I'd prefer that economic style of government merged with democratic practices rather than a totalitarian and privatized regime.  Socialism pulls society away from it's drive to maximize profits and pushes them towards focusing on each other.  Capitalism is a step for a country to build up, well, it's capital before the transition towards Socialism or Social Democracy.  Right wingers don't want this to happen, as the avarice generated by businesses attempting to create as much capital as possible causes them to keep going, to put down any attempts to then stop the privatization and force them to drop their monetary capital back into the society.
Capitalism

An economic system based on a free market, open competition, profit motive and private ownership of the means of production. Capitalism encourages private investment and business, compared to a government-controlled economy. Investors in these private companies (i.e. shareholders) also own the firms and are known as capitalists.



Yes Yes.....I have no doubt you feel this way............unfortunately allot of people that ACTUALLY work hard for their money and their nest eggs have a hard time sharing with those that DON'T.

So tell me again WHAT exactally is it that you LOVE about being an American??.........since we ruled out our govt. and now we just ruled our belief in capitalism.......you know, the freedom basically to go out and make something of yourself and reap the rewards of your labors........But you honestly believe it is the duty of the rich and hard working to coddle the poor........coddle them instead of providing jobs for them such as they do.

Also there are about 10 million illegal immegrants that come here and have jobs in about 15 minutes from the time they pull the tarp off of the smugglers truck....

Our govt. isn't set up so it can take care of it's citizens, our govt. is set up to allow, and provide opportunity for us  to take care of ourselves.......

In America, you have the equal opportunity to succeed or fail. It is all up to you.

But I guess the old bumber sticker I saw rings true huh????......."VOTE DEMOCRAT IT IS EASIER THAN GETTING A JOB"

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-30 06:02:16)

2006-03-30 05:55:22
mofo65
Member
+6|6852|Valrico, FL USA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yerded wrote:

Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
you sir, are retarded.  do NOT pro-create........ please.
LOL, I'ts just funny how standing up for the country and it's people is considered non-patriotic.
2006-03-30 06:08:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6872|USA

mofo65 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yerded wrote:

Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
you sir, are retarded.  do NOT pro-create........ please.
LOL, I'ts just funny how standing up for the country and it's people is considered non-patriotic.
I have read allot of your posts........I think it is funny that you think you are "standing up " and showing patriotism by bashing America with all the negitive she has done and NEVER focusing on ANY of the positives...My God with patriotism like yours and Marconius, who needs terrorism?
2006-03-30 06:46:30
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6865

yerded wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

yerded wrote:

Liberals are the guys who are brushing up on their Arabic so that when Sharia law is thrust upon us they can be the first to bow down and worship at the alter of Osama.
     Devoid of ideas they simply oppose every move by anyone with a Republican leaning.
     These are the guys who don't believe in borders. These are the gun banning secret selling people who think America doesn't deserve it's place in the food chain.
     Liberals are led by morons like Murtha and Al Gore who go around saying Americas Armies are broken, her soldiers torture innocents.
     Liberals are the types poisoning the minds of our students, indoctorinating them to hate America. They deserve no more than a few seconds against a cold brick wall and a couple of ounce of hot lead at about 2400 fps. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Republicans are almost as bad.
you sir, are retarded.  do NOT pro-create........ please.
Too late, oh and by the way, your name is on the list
what have you done for our country since your such a patriot.
2006-03-30 07:18:11
BrentBach
Member
+0|6900|West Lafayette IN
a liberal=dumbass especially if they have Hillary Clinton run for president in the next election
2006-03-30 07:23:41
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6956|California

BrentBach wrote:

a liberal=dumbass especially if they have Hillary Clinton run for president in the next election
Why? That would be the best thing to happen to the republican party.

Although at this point, I am considering voting for Democrats across the board this time around. Republicans are pissing me off. Overspending and not defending our borders. They are making democrats look good! Even when the dems are shooting themselves in the foot left and right.

Time for Erk to make a party of his own.
2006-03-30 07:31:57
BrentBach
Member
+0|6900|West Lafayette IN
Im not saying it would be a bad thing for the republicans if she ran it would be great for them but it would really show how stupid the democrats are if they do it. You think the democrats will defend the borders better all they do when they are in office is shrink are military so there is no way they would defend the borders better. I do agree that we need to do somthing about are borders but the democrats won't do it they like letting more people in the country.
2006-03-30 07:38:39
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6956|California
Not for nothing man, but BUSINESS likes letting people in the country illegally. Cheap work, no payroll taxes, a businessman's dream. The illegals are too stupid to realize they are being used though. Give them a little welfare, and cheap healthcare, and they are happy drones.

This is not a rep vs dem issue. It's an American issue.
2006-03-30 07:41:37
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6992|Atlanta, GA USA

Erkut.hv wrote:

BrentBach wrote:

a liberal=dumbass especially if they have Hillary Clinton run for president in the next election
Why? That would be the best thing to happen to the republican party.

Although at this point, I am considering voting for Democrats across the board this time around. Republicans are pissing me off. Overspending and not defending our borders. They are making democrats look good! Even when the dems are shooting themselves in the foot left and right.

Time for Erk to make a party of his own.
Libertarian FTW!
2006-03-30 07:44:20
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6872|USA

atlvolunteer wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

BrentBach wrote:

a liberal=dumbass especially if they have Hillary Clinton run for president in the next election
Why? That would be the best thing to happen to the republican party.

Although at this point, I am considering voting for Democrats across the board this time around. Republicans are pissing me off. Overspending and not defending our borders. They are making democrats look good! Even when the dems are shooting themselves in the foot left and right.

Time for Erk to make a party of his own.
Libertarian FTW!
Can I get an AMEN??
2006-03-30 07:44:30
BrentBach
Member
+0|6900|West Lafayette IN
I completely agree with you on that and it takes away jobs for the american citizens that is why are unemployment rate is so high even with the job growth the buisness are hiring the illegals because like you said they have no clue how badly they are getting riped off and it is saving the business tons of money on insurance and taxes
2006-03-30 07:50:27
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6956|California

atlvolunteer wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

BrentBach wrote:

a liberal=dumbass especially if they have Hillary Clinton run for president in the next election
Why? That would be the best thing to happen to the republican party.

Although at this point, I am considering voting for Democrats across the board this time around. Republicans are pissing me off. Overspending and not defending our borders. They are making democrats look good! Even when the dems are shooting themselves in the foot left and right.

Time for Erk to make a party of his own.
Libertarian FTW!
I think I might be in line with you. I took the Libertarian test, and way waaaay up in the top part. One dot away form Uber_liber.

I may have found a home, will have to do more research.

 

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