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2006-03-10 12:55:00
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6914|San Francisco
It takes 8 minutes for light and heat to reach us, but understand that the Sun alone is not responsible for Earth's warmth.  The atmosphere of the Earth allows the greenhouse effect to occur with the Sun's energy, thus keeping the planet warm. 

What I was trying to say is that the heat from the Sun is constant and not variable enough for any significant difference to our atmosphere.  A significant change would span across hundreds of years, not in the course of 60 years...the sharp jump in that graph I posted is from the increased greenhouse gases from global industrialization.  The thicker the atmosphere, the more energy gets trapped, and thusly our planet warms up as the heat cannot dissipate back into space as easily.
2006-03-10 13:11:50
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6997
But you can't say that with certainty.  England had an industrial revolution as well but your wording makes it sound as if the US's revolution is the sole factor in equation.

You would have to think that some flares would miss us in our rotation as well. 

Research pole shift.  There's a site out there that documents earthquake activity and how much more frequent Earth is having them.  This could be because more and more seismological centers are popping up.  The same can be said for temperature data gathering.  All data to this point is inconclusive because we weren't measuring data 100 years ago.  And if the Earth is millions of years old then 100 years of data counldn't be used as a "this is what's happening". 

Also, what if there were more and more earthquakes under the ocean  that go undetected and are actually releasing molten rock and heating up the ocean.  Wouldn't our temperatures rise along with it?
2006-03-10 16:11:34
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6914|San Francisco
I said Global industrialization.  Look at the graph!  It starts in the year 1880, so there is more than 100 years of data there.  Here's that graph explained in detail. 

The Earth is definitely undergoing long-term climate change, but scientists can analyze climate trends by studying ice cores and tree rings.  There is an accelerating temperature change now as opposed to the climate cycles in the pre-industrialization eras.  And I know about pole shift...the Earth is beginning to wobble back in its rotation which indeed increases seismic activity and climate shifts, yet the climate acceleration today is not present in any of the data from the past.

As for flares, there's a lot more to it than just heat.  Flares are massive magnetic events that send shockwaves through the Sun's heliosphere and affect all the planets on different levels, no matter which side of the Sun we are facing.

The undersea thermal idea is interesting, but I'd need to see more data on it to form a proper opinion.
2006-03-10 19:36:53
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6895|Canberra, AUS
If it weren't for the atmosphere and greenhouse effect, Earth's average temperature would be -20C.

I thought I posted a helluva lot of climate data somewhere, I'll go look for it...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-03-10 20:04:54
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6895|Canberra, AUS
Ok. Here it is

A general overview of global warming

Global temperatures over the last 150 years

Global temperatures over the last 2000 years

C02 levels over the past 400 000 years Notice the fluctuations, relating to ice ages.

Proof that there IS a correlation between C02 and temperature

I said in another topic that a 5C increase in temps would be enough to trigger a mass extiction, according to some EXPERTS. Well...

The ice IS melting...

I'm talking about ALL GREENHOUSE GASES here

About that 5 degree comment:

A 5 degree increase in temps would release a lot of methane hydrate (from solid to gas form). Methane hydrate is a greenhouse gas. The result of this release would be an ADDITIONAL 5 degree increase. This would kill off most of life on earth, and is associated with the Permian extinction, which killed off 95% of life on earth.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-03-10 22:15:57
BVC
Member
+325|6915
Yes, all this crap going into the atmosphere, going all the way to the south pole and ripping up a huge ozone hole that gives places like NZ, Aus, South Africa, Chile etc higher skin cancer rates...and I read that the same pollution thats doing this is actually blocking UV from the worst polluted spots!  gw USA, gw EU, gw China, gw India, gw Mexico, thanks for giving us cancer!

Last edited by Pubic (2006-03-10 22:16:23)

2006-03-11 04:25:45
jord
Member
+2,382|6898|The North, beyond the wall.
I think its good its cold here in england let it get warmer and 1 in 3 people get cancer so if i get it not much i can do but injoy the sunshine.
2006-03-11 15:51:26
ShowMeTheMonkey
Member
+125|6922
Ok sorry guys. I didn't mean to start a flame war, It wasn't even a snub at the US at all. I was just wondering what you guys thought of global polloution.

Personally I think that we are all as bad as each other but there is a lot of things we can do to help.

Please DO NOT take this data word for word it is unreliable as no one in the world knows the exact percentage.

US stop hating Europe and Europe stop hating US pleeeeeeeease............
2006-03-11 20:50:09
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6895|Canberra, AUS

Zefar wrote:

Well I'm just gonna post 2 links.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html#Pollution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static … /china.stm

And I do belive USA should try to lower their waste imo....
Uhhhh... Aren't these the SAME links Marconius posted just before?

I like it warm too.

However, I don't like it

A. Cold. There appears to be a correlation between temperatures and ice age triggers.

B. Dead. No explanation required.

C. White. I'm getting annoyed with having to put on sunscreen every day.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-03-11 21:00:55
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6895|Canberra, AUS

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

But you can't say that with certainty.  England had an industrial revolution as well but your wording makes it sound as if the US's revolution is the sole factor in equation.

You would have to think that some flares would miss us in our rotation as well. 

Research pole shift.  There's a site out there that documents earthquake activity and how much more frequent Earth is having them.  This could be because more and more seismological centers are popping up.  The same can be said for temperature data gathering.  All data to this point is inconclusive because we weren't measuring data 100 years ago.  And if the Earth is millions of years old then 100 years of data counldn't be used as a "this is what's happening". 

Also, what if there were more and more earthquakes under the ocean  that go undetected and are actually releasing molten rock and heating up the ocean.  Wouldn't our temperatures rise along with it?
Not molten rock. Greenhouse gas, trapped as methane reserves deep underground.

The Industrial Revolution was the work of America and Western Europe. End.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-03-11 21:08:18
Mr.Pieeater
Member
+116|6844|Cherry Pie
China is not an industrialized nation.  If China were at the same stage as the US, then the figures would be different.  In the US we don't live in huts that don't have electricity.  We have houses, with computers, that access forums, where people post stuff.  Besides, you don't think the Chinese would be completely raping the environment if they were at the same level as the US?  I doubt they would even have regulation.  China doesn't even regulate it coal mine industry.  I saw on the History Channel that 16 Chinese coal miners die a day, or something like that.  You think they would give a crap about the environment?  I think not.

Last edited by Mr.Pieeater (2006-03-11 21:09:07)

 

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