imortal wrote:
Okay, I think you are a liberal person, but I feel like you are someone who wants to actually make the world better, but (from my point of view) just have a skewed way of thinking about it. Believe it, when I am talking about a liberal, that is high praise, not an insult.
First, we KNOW why they are doing what they are doing. It isn't a mystery, unless you listen to the mainstream media. There are several groups of "they." In Iraq, there are actually very few iraqis actually fighting. By now, nearly all of the "insurgants" are from out of country; Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. Since before the US invaded Iraq, Iran has had people in place trying to build a force to take over Iran. And I will assume you have heard the President of Iran speaking.
Why would we need to stay and finish? In my opinion, a matter of responsibility. We tore their country apart, and took apart a goverment that has been in place for over 20 years. Unless we WANT the place to be lawless and prime for another dictator to take control, we owe it to the civilian population to at least make sure they have a stable goverment. If we don't, we simply create a situation there that would benifit those who view violence as a way to make a point.
And what would happen if we "stopped attacking" The radicals that really don't like us... well they REALLY don't like us. The radical view of Islam they have is that Islam should rule the world, and we stand in the way. If we back off, even at all, in their culture, they will have won a victory, showing them they are on the true path to complete their goals. In Islam, the only time you cease to kill your enemy is when you are weaker. Then you are allowed to declare a peace JUST long enough to gain your strength to continue fighting. They will not stop. Or, to put it in a quote, "If you pay the Danegeld, you are never free of the Dane."
I do not think of them as insane. It is the people that use the religion of Islam and twist it for their purposes... those are the people that I think are evil. But it isn't just Islam. There are Christains here in the US who feel the US deserves to die because they allow gays in the military. There are Religious freaks all over. The problem is that the culture of Islam is geared to allow them to prosper.
As to how I think we can end it... The probelm will not end until the more moderate muslims take back their culture. We have to get them to police their own faith. To do that, we have to show them a better way. I goal to strive for. By attacking them, directly or indirectly, we just firm opinions against us. However, we need to suppress the violence long enough for those moderates to come to power and solidify their position.
Hi!
I'll go right ahead and make one thing clear, and as you point out - there are different groups of they..
Personally I'd like to see every and all suicide-bomber lined up and shot, together with his family (who then can't avenge him) And his cousins, and their cousins. And a few friends, and some more people who might dislike the idea of me shooting ahmed suicide-bomber.
You have to agree this isn't the optimal solution (but you have to deal with everyone if your going to deal with one - says so in their culture)
I'll take your "Iran has tried building up a force to conquer Iran" is to mean "conquer Iraq..."
Yes - there is little love lost between Iran and Iraq, they have been at eachothers throats since the muslims broke out of the Arabian peninsula. And your 100% right about the "insurgents" which they arn't - they are mercenaries most of them, they move from country to country looking for work. (read: mamlûks)
I'll also say that I don't give much for what the President of Iran is saying - I'll explain in my next remark.
It's our responsibility... Well - What can I say? No, it's not - we helped them get rid of a dictator, here you go, here's your free country - rebuild it. That's all we need say. But we persist, we want to stay and we want to help, and if they don't want our help - well, they don't exactly have a choice now do they?
As far as the country being lawless, I'll stop you right there - it wouldn't be since they still have Sharía (the holy law) to govern them. And another dictator probably wouldn't ascend because the people now knew what to look for.
"They can only stop fighting when they are weak...Peacetreaty until..." - I'm dying to see where this comes from in the Quran.
Danegeld? never heard of that one - but it piqued my curiosity, what is it?
And as far as your closing points: Halleluja! (or Allahu Akbar?) I agree - Islam is a great religion (in the sense that any religion is OK) and people will twist it to suit their needs. This can't be blamed on religion, but on humanity.
I'll just close with saying: help them choose the right way, but not look like we're trying to impose our way is impossible. There cannot be peace and a solution while western forces are in the middle east - any religious leader would be mistrusted and most likely assasinated because he "sided with the white peole"
Last edited by Friluftshund (2006-03-12 03:39:02)