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2006-02-23 23:24:43
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6895|Canberra, AUS

<EJ>Wolf wrote:

Just about every /major/ religion preaches peace and forgiveness. That is the way the books are all written. However, there's this little issue about interpretation. What one person reads as "Love thy neighbor" (or take the appropriate wording from the appropriate text) someone else reads it with an addition "Love thy neighbor...so long as he is like you."

The problem isn't the religions, the problem is the people. Islam is a very understanding religion, Christianity is a very understanding religion. Muslims and Christians tend not to be very understanding, however. The vast majority of each populace is ignorant. Not stupid mind you, but uneducated. They believe what they're told because they aren't being told anything else. This goes for those in the middle east, and those here in America.

And while everyone speaks about the atrocities committed by muslims, the atrocities committed by americans, what about the atrocities committed by catholic priests? One of the most anti-gay religions in the world....and their very own priests are molesting alter boys. Here's the sad reality, it's religion now, but if it wasn't religion, it'd be something else. There will always be some evil, some conflict. Because as a whole, people cannot accept those different from themselves.

The cartoonist should have considered the reaction his works might cause, but in the same respect, they were his work and he had every right to create and distribute them as he saw fit (and as permitted by the country in which he distributed them).
Thankyou, for one of the most intelligent posts I've seen on this forum.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-02-25 05:29:28
El pistolero
Member
+0|6869
I wonder if the cartoonist did that on purpose to provoke or he did that as they always did at the newspaper
1 thing for sure: What were he thinking doesnt he know better than insult the islams fanatics, and it came just in time, when all the wars going on, and so on. It seems it was Arranged...........
Of course islam fanatics and islam believers in general are acting WRONG too. U must be able to question religions and  thats a human right and if we dont , ur letting urself  other maggots talk for U
Look at other religions ,specially christianity, It been critisised and maked fun of a LOT , .

But it still survives, because the real believers know, U cant change ppls opinion by the sword
U change it by ur act and words............ remember that.......
2006-02-25 06:10:47
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|6951|Uhh... erm...
To Spark and Wolf, kudos to you two for actually posting something intelligent here.

To all the rest of the idiots and/or racists who are posting bullshit and mistranslating the Quran and yelling "Kill Muslims!", to heck with you.
2006-02-25 06:27:32
voodoodolphins
Member
+92|6923
Okay just to clarify, there are 12 cartoonists and not only one.  And if you think the cartoons are grotesque you don't know anything about the culture in my country, and how normal it is to make fun of serious issues, this is nothing.

Voodoodolphins
2006-02-25 06:32:31
Possum61
Member
+9|6968|Philly PA USA

zhushma wrote:

i believe what the russians and americans should do is gather all their arsenal and destroy all of the middle east, exept israel.  Lob all of our nukes, everything at them, destroying all peaceful and nonpeaceful arabs, and kill all of them in america too, except the doctors. Kill all the kids(future terorists, so show no sympathy) and burn their bodies for all to see.
AMEN !!!!   
2006-02-25 07:36:11
Greenie_Beazinie
Aussie Outlaw
+8|7033
Yeah you're real cool Possum
2006-02-25 07:49:01
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6900

El pistolero wrote:

I wonder if the cartoonist did that on purpose to provoke or he did that as they always did at the newspaper
1 thing for sure: What were he thinking doesnt he know better than insult the islams fanatics, and it came just in time, when all the wars going on, and so on. It seems it was Arranged...........
Of course islam fanatics and islam believers in general are acting WRONG too. U must be able to question religions and  thats a human right and if we dont , ur letting urself  other maggots talk for U
Look at other religions ,specially christianity, It been critisised and maked fun of a LOT , .

But it still survives, because the real believers know, U cant change ppls opinion by the sword
U change it by ur act and words............ remember that.......
First off these pictures have been out way before this became a problem . First thier was a contest to draw pictures of the Prophet Muhamad . It was held in Germany . Not one person entered the contest . So the contest was moved to denmark and 12 artists joined in . The cartoons were published and that was that . Something like 7 months later the cartoons were re-published by an Austrailian paper and then again in Britian . It was the radical Islam idiots , Iranian spies in Iraq and muslim extreamists who took the cartoons and shoved it in the faces of the public trying to start riots and and cause as much comotion as possible to bring unstability to the middle east . Why ? Because one half of Islam wants to stay "on track " meaning live like the friggin taliban and the other half wants to put religion in the back seat and enjoy life like the rest of the world . IE: United Arab Imirates . Granted the contest was kind of dumb but most people just ignored it like any other offense . But the second publishing was used as a tool by extreamists and causing riots and buring down embasies . It's a shame . People of the same faith are killing each other over how to live , or rather serve God .

Here is an example of what I'm talking about - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4735240.stm

Last edited by jonnykill (2006-02-25 08:59:54)

2006-02-25 14:04:47
El pistolero
Member
+0|6869
[radical Islam idiots , Iranian spies in Iraq and muslim extreamists who took the cartoons and shoved it in the faces of the public trying to start riots and and cause as much comotion as possible to bring unstability to the middle east . Why ? Because one half of Islam wants to stay "on track " meaning live like the friggin taliban and the other half wants to put religion in the back seat and enjoy life like the rest of the world . IE: United Arab Imirates . Granted the contest was kind of dumb but most people just ignored it like any other offense . But the second publishing was used as a tool by extreamists and causing riots and buring down embasies . It's a shame . People of the same faith are killing each other over how to live , or rather serve God .

]
I know What u mean, a lot of islams ppl wants peace, It is the governments that are the treaths, Or
high posted persons who direct the masses to their own benefit. Thats why when theres a war , the masses should inquisite their leaders , To really fint out whats going on... U know the first person on the battlefield
is the poor uneducated private soldier, who goes to war ,for their governments mistakes and rich ppls greed
U never gonna see a politicians son as private at the front, and if u do , tell me
2006-02-25 14:06:30
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|7050|Denver colorado

zhushma wrote:

i believe what the russians and americans should do is gather all their arsenal and destroy all of the middle east, exept israel.  Lob all of our nukes, everything at them, destroying all peaceful and nonpeaceful arabs, and kill all of them in america too, except the doctors. Kill all the kids(future terorists, so show no sympathy) and burn their bodies for all to see.
YAY. russia is really cool like.
2006-02-25 14:15:49
Rathji
Member
+1|6903
15000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk
2006-02-25 14:22:45
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6879|BC, Canada

<EJ>Wolf wrote:

Just about every /major/ religion preaches peace and forgiveness. That is the way the books are all written. However, there's this little issue about interpretation. What one person reads as "Love thy neighbor" (or take the appropriate wording from the appropriate text) someone else reads it with an addition "Love thy neighbor...so long as he is like you."

The problem isn't the religions, the problem is the people. Islam is a very understanding religion, Christianity is a very understanding religion. Muslims and Christians tend not to be very understanding, however. The vast majority of each populace is ignorant. Not stupid mind you, but uneducated. They believe what they're told because they aren't being told anything else. This goes for those in the middle east, and those here in America.

And while everyone speaks about the atrocities committed by muslims, the atrocities committed by americans, what about the atrocities committed by catholic priests? One of the most anti-gay religions in the world....and their very own priests are molesting alter boys. Here's the sad reality, it's religion now, but if it wasn't religion, it'd be something else. There will always be some evil, some conflict. Because as a whole, people cannot accept those different from themselves.

The cartoonist should have considered the reaction his works might cause, but in the same respect, they were his work and he had every right to create and distribute them as he saw fit (and as permitted by the country in which he distributed them).
very good much better than another "lets just kill everyone quote"

Last edited by Nicholas Langdon (2006-02-25 15:14:22)

2006-02-25 15:03:23
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6900

El pistolero wrote:

[radical Islam idiots , Iranian spies in Iraq and muslim extreamists who took the cartoons and shoved it in the faces of the public trying to start riots and and cause as much comotion as possible to bring unstability to the middle east . Why ? Because one half of Islam wants to stay "on track " meaning live like the friggin taliban and the other half wants to put religion in the back seat and enjoy life like the rest of the world . IE: United Arab Imirates . Granted the contest was kind of dumb but most people just ignored it like any other offense . But the second publishing was used as a tool by extreamists and causing riots and buring down embasies . It's a shame . People of the same faith are killing each other over how to live , or rather serve God .

]
I know What u mean, a lot of islams ppl wants peace, It is the governments that are the treaths, Or
high posted persons who direct the masses to their own benefit. Thats why when theres a war , the masses should inquisite their leaders , To really fint out whats going on... U know the first person on the battlefield
is the poor uneducated private soldier, who goes to war ,for their governments mistakes and rich ppls greed
U never gonna see a politicians son as private at the front, and if u do , tell me
Ever see that Samuri movie with Tom Cruise The Last Samuri . You can just add the Taliban and it's basically the same story today . The samuri wanted to live as they did and see no change - just go on with life and keep traditions the same . But the world was changing IE : industry , world trade , inventions . Ultimately the Samuri became obsolete and were wiped out .

  Same is about to happen to radical Islam hopefully. Not everyone practicing Islam wants to wrap their wife up in a burka in 134 degree weather . Some break the rules and drink alcohol . Some don't even want to pray 5 times a day and so on . And this is where the meat of the problem lies .Radical Islam dosen't want technology , dosen't want influence or changes to law .  Radical Islam is willing to fight to the death like the samuri did to protect thier culture . Thing is is that now instead of fighting with a sword they are using geurilla tactics and terror bombings as a weapon - and it's effective and nearly impossible to stop . I feel sorry for the Iraqis . All they want to do is move foward and live peacfully without a dictator running the show . I keep hearing it again and again they loved what we did for them ( remember how happy they were when we tore down Saddams Statue ?). But half of the Iraqis say we have to leave now because the terrorism is getting worse . But the other have says if we leave the country now in a state of emergency then all our efforts will have failed and be in vail . Tough position to be in on both sides of the fence .
2006-02-27 03:41:23
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|6951|Uhh... erm...
Currently, the US army in Iraq is in a paradox. If they stay, insurgent attacks will continue in Iraq, and they get flamed by everyone. If they leave, USA gets flamed by everyone for not cleaning up their mess. But they got themselves into this mess, no one else is going to bother helping them get out.
2006-02-27 03:59:59
General_CoLin_Tassi
Member
+-2|6920|England, UK
Lets put a bounty on all those Islamist who burn our western flags, attack our countries embassy's and chant death to the west. Some of the middle east is in the middle ages. Beheading, stoning etc etc.
2006-02-27 04:33:08
El pistolero7
Member
+0|6854
[]
Yes i have seen it.  Yep they dont want changes and thats a shame, they keep their ppl down,
But i believe Únited States have gotten themselves in their own mess.
I believe this is beginning of ww3.
Unfortunatly.
2006-03-01 17:12:04
monkeyboy
Member
+8|6885
Great post Jonnykill.

Personally, I think the media are using Islam as a scapegoat for a lot of the worlds problems.

I don't believe the vast majority of the insurgents in iraq are "muslim extremists". Some of the leaders probably are, and many of those wouldn't be of Iraqi origin.... they'd have travelled there afterwards to provoke the situation. I think the vast majority of Iraqi suicide bombers are just going to be regular men, who've lost the will to live after their families have been killed in the war. Its got fuck all to do with religion.... they're fighting because they hate the countries that started an illegal war and murdered their loved ones. They've lost the will to live, and they want to lash out. It's only logical that they're combining the two.

Everyone seems to forget the "war on terror" and the war in iraq were not supposed to have anything to do with each other. It seems to me a lot the talk of muslim extremists in iraq is just a conveniant smokescreen, to divert people's attention away from thinking about Blair and Bush's international crimes. All the anti-west extremists have just adopted the religious thing because they feel it gives them a louder voice.

These muslim extremists are a paradox in themselves. They either don't understand Islam, or they don't have any faith in the first place.  Islam is the same as christianity. It's all about forgiveness. If you do something wrong to a Muslim.. he'll turn the other cheek, and inside, he'll be thinking "well, either Allah will forgive this, or this guy is gonna burn for eternity, so either way, theres no action needed from me".

If a muslim murders somebody, he's pretty much guaranteeing himself a place in hell. Thats what all the scripture and holy books say. I can't really believe any true Muslim is going to take heed of what Abu hamza has to say about a thousand virgins, when all their scripture very clearly says if you murder, you're going to hell.

The Koran already says everyone who doesn't believe in Allah is already going to hell, so a true devout Muslim would know that all us westerners are already doomed to an eternity of hell, and nothing they can do to hurt us is ever going to compare to that. Why would they risk their place in heaven to hurt somebody who's already doomed? It does not make sence. Why would I be standing in a court room... talking about chewbacca? It does not MAKE SENCE!! Ladies and gentlemen of the "supposed jury" I ask you this..... "why would a wookie want to live on a planet of ewocks?" IT DOES NOT MAKE SENCE!!! If any of this makes sence, then surely sucide bombing doesn't make sence? WHy am I talking about chewbacca anyway? IT DOES NOT MAKE SENCE!!!!!

Last edited by monkeyboy (2006-03-01 17:13:58)

2006-03-01 17:25:17
El pistolero7
Member
+0|6854
[monkeyboy]

Very interesting post Monkeyboy,
It doesnt make sence , why should a good muslim believer kill, when  he knows
the qoran tells another thing..
A lots of smokescreens are beeing presented ,unfortunatly..
The bible says, that in the end of days, lost of false prophets will appear
And their identification is a human number  "666"...
2006-03-01 18:13:16
sfg-Ice__
Member
+4|6873
You know what we need to do...(this is just a jest)....take all our lazy people send em over there to, hopefully they will breed with the people there and in 20 years the only thing they will compain about is having to work..LOL

I've been trying to stay out of this because I'm split in my mind.  On one hand I know a few muslims and they are really nice people.  Very respectful and gracious. 

On the other hand, like many have said, the koran does say kill all non-believers..how can you buddy up to someone who worships something that says he should kill you. 

My point is I think its about damn time a new prophet comes out and writes a new book for islam.  That whole problem....the Koran will always be interpreted by someone in a negative manner or extremist manner.  It needs to be changed or altered to remove that possibility.
2006-03-02 04:33:34
El pistolero7
Member
+0|6854
=sfg-Ice

U got a point there, there are good muslim ppl,, modest,and caring, i believe they are just confused as christians are, and other ateists and buddishts among others
The koran tells to kill all non believers who attacks the religion and Allahs words ..if they dont listen
But it doesnt tell to kill ppl with other believs just like that , they respect it, at least most of them.
The qoran tells to be patient with other religions and persons, to talk to the ppl , gently, invinting them in
or some sort . But I see most muslims uninterpreted it wrong  the qoaran, just like christians do  with the bible.. Something Awful happens and the first they say is ,"Where is god in all of this?"
When the first question they should askthemselves is "why did this happened?"
2006-03-02 04:37:34
Beefy
Member
+0|6862
If every one become buddhist world will be an better place
2006-03-02 06:19:15
xanthpi
Banned
+11|6940

El pistolero7 wrote:

=sfg-Ice

U got a point there, there are good muslim ppl,, modest,and caring, i believe they are just confused as christians are, and other ateists and buddishts among others
The koran tells to kill all non believers who attacks the religion and Allahs words ..if they dont listen
But it doesnt tell to kill ppl with other believs just like that , they respect it, at least most of them.
The qoran tells to be patient with other religions and persons, to talk to the ppl , gently, invinting them in
or some sort . But I see most muslims uninterpreted it wrong  the qoaran, just like christians do  with the bible.. Something Awful happens and the first they say is ,"Where is god in all of this?"
When the first question they should askthemselves is "why did this happened?"
Let me make something clear.

A 'Muslim' who appears to be a nice person is either putting on an act in order to present Islam in a positive light or they are not Muslim at all. Since in Islamic law a Muslim MUST hate all unbelievers, there is no such thing as a nice Muslim, from a non-Muslim point of view.

Let me make something else clear. In Islam it is illegal to interpret the religion by anything but the highest ranking Imams. So get it out of your head that Islamic violence is due to incorrect interpretation. The Qur'an specifically orders Muslims to enslave, rape or kill all unbelievers. It is not possible to interpret those orders in any other way than the real one.
2006-03-02 06:30:21
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6936

xanthpi wrote:

El pistolero7 wrote:

=sfg-Ice

U got a point there, there are good muslim ppl,, modest,and caring, i believe they are just confused as christians are, and other ateists and buddishts among others
The koran tells to kill all non believers who attacks the religion and Allahs words ..if they dont listen
But it doesnt tell to kill ppl with other believs just like that , they respect it, at least most of them.
The qoran tells to be patient with other religions and persons, to talk to the ppl , gently, invinting them in
or some sort . But I see most muslims uninterpreted it wrong  the qoaran, just like christians do  with the bible.. Something Awful happens and the first they say is ,"Where is god in all of this?"
When the first question they should askthemselves is "why did this happened?"
Let me make something clear.

A 'Muslim' who appears to be a nice person is either putting on an act in order to present Islam in a positive light or they are not Muslim at all. Since in Islamic law a Muslim MUST hate all unbelievers, there is no such thing as a nice Muslim, from a non-Muslim point of view.

Let me make something else clear. In Islam it is illegal to interpret the religion by anything but the highest ranking Imams. So get it out of your head that Islamic violence is due to incorrect interpretation. The Qur'an specifically orders Muslims to enslave, rape or kill all unbelievers. It is not possible to interpret those orders in any other way than the real one.
thats the old koran right? i heard there are major changes to the new one, most muslims i know are just ur average joe, cant tell the difference in their behavior between others.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2006-03-02 08:32:18
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6955|California

Rathji wrote:

15000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk
LMMFAO!!!!11!111~!!!!!!!^@!!

That was one of the funniest things I have read in a while.
2006-03-02 09:41:44
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6956|Salt Lake City

Tetrino wrote:

To Spark and Wolf, kudos to you two for actually posting something intelligent here.

To all the rest of the idiots and/or racists who are posting bullshit and mistranslating the Quran and yelling "Kill Muslims!", to heck with you.
Is my guess that you are Muslim correct?  Your sig is flying the Malaysian flag, and the primary religion of Malaysia is Islam.  While there are other religions in the country, Muslims make up the majority (~60-65%).

From Wikipedia

Malaysia is a multi-religious society, but Islam is the official religion of the country. The four main religions are Islam (60.4% of the population according to government census figures in 2000), Buddhism (19.2%), Hinduism (6.3%), and Christianity (9.1%, mostly in East Malaysia, i.e. Borneo). Until the 20th century, most practiced traditional beliefs, which arguably still linger on to a greater degree than Malaysian officialdom is prepared to acknowledge.

Although the Malaysian constitution theoretically guarantees religious freedom, in practice the situation is not so simple (See Status of religious freedom in Malaysia). Non-Muslims often experience restrictions in activities such as construction of religious buildings. Meanwhile Muslims are obliged to follow the decisions of sharia courts. Whether Muslims may freely leave Islam is not yet legally clear. In some situations, the Malaysian courts have denied one's right to freedom of religion even when one has renounced Islam (such as the Yeshua Jalilludin versus the Minister of Home Affairs case in the 1980's). Generally one who wishes to leave Islam makes a legal declaration, but this is still not recognised by the Malaysian civil courts. One is said to have to obtain a declaration of apostasy with a Syariah Court, but the court will not generally grant one.

Malaysians tend to personally respect one another's religious beliefs, with inter-religious problems arising mainly from the political sphere.

 

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