Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6729
I ask you, what in the realm of online First-Person-Shooters gaming is more annoying than firing off a few shoots only for some idiot on your team to run in front of them and make you lose points for your ally not paying enough attention? Having someone from your team throw a grenade that you got to close to and kill you unnecessarily and undeservedly.

Friendly Fire severs no purpose other than pissing people off. In games where the objective is to kill enemies why make it that you can kill your own allies, advancing the opposite objective. FF does not, in anyway enhance the gameplay experience but what it does do is make it much more frustrating.

FF also allows grievers a chance to do actual harm to the experience of other people, if there are hostile/juvenile players on the server then they will often attack friends for the sole purpose of upsetting their experience, and with the people they are killing giving them the benefit of the doubt and not wanting to ruin their own score and the score of their team they will not retaliate upon first attack.

What baffles me is that FF has been in games for over 10 years and it has never had any positive impact on the gameplay in those. >10 years of frustration and grief caused by FriendlyFire and developers still put it into games. TF2 however got it dead right. Valve knew how FriendlyFire would utterly ruin the experience of TeamFortress2 and as such they decided to make it impossible to directly damage the other players on one's team and as such the game is vastly less frustrating than it would have been if FriendlyFire had been included.

The only possible reason to include FriendlyFire in a video game is to increase the amount of realism in a game, since in real life ammunition does not discriminate, something that Vietnamese children and British Army soldiers can attest to, however realism should never be a higher priority than making the game fun, the purpose of gaming is to get away from reality into a world that is more exciting and fun- something that making realism to important can often damage. On top of this very many games are highly unrealistic already, if in a game one can run, jump and shoot a gun from his hip and still hit his enemy right in the face or quickly revive a comrade who has been killing by a direct hit from explosive round realism in general and FriendlyFire in particular have little to no place.

So I ask you one final question, is there any good reason to have FriendlyFire in an unrealistic game? Or is TF2 the way of the future in more ways than just its art style and diverse yet balanced gameplay?
SamTheMan:D
Banned
+856|6235|England

i duno lol

it is a good way of annoying germans on your own team, maybe thats why game companies use it lololol
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|7002|FUCK UBISOFT

friendly fire is realistic.

sure you can leave it out in a game like tf2, please do. But in a realistic game, at least leave the option available.
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6729

SamTheMan:D wrote:

i duno lol

it is a good way of annoying germans on your own team, maybe thats why game companies use it lololol

SamTheMan:D wrote:

i duno lol

it is a good way of annoying germans on your own team, maybe thats why game companies use it lololol
exactly my point, FF has no other purpose than to frustrate people.

Miggle wrote:

friendly fire is realistic.

sure you can leave it out in a game like tf2, please do. But in a realistic game, at least leave the option available.
Realism is unimportant compared to how fun the game is and should be secondary at most. Not only that but very few games can claim to be actually "realistic", CS and BF2 are unrealistic, they both have a friendly fire option and when it is on it is potentially ruinous in both games.

Last edited by DoctaStrangelove (2008-04-23 16:37:33)

kptk92
u
+972|6669|tc_london
Ban SamTheMan:D he's got his double post hack on
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|7002|FUCK UBISOFT

or: How I Learned to Stop worrying and Love the Bomb wrote:

Miggle wrote:

friendly fire is realistic.

sure you can leave it out in a game like tf2, please do. But in a realistic game, at least leave the option available.
Realism is unimportant compared to how fun the game is and should be secondary at most. Not only that but very few games can claim to be actually "realistic", CS and BF2 are unrealistic, they both have a friendly fire option and when it is on it is potentially ruinous in both games.
well, CS and BF2 have real guns and much more realistic everything.

In Call of Duty 2 there is a very active realism community, in BF2 there is project reality, those games actually have slight realism in them.

TF2 > BF, CS, CoD.
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
SamTheMan:D
Banned
+856|6235|England

ban miggle known double post hacker
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6729

Miggle wrote:

or: How I Learned to Stop worrying and Love the Bomb wrote:

Miggle wrote:

friendly fire is realistic.

sure you can leave it out in a game like tf2, please do. But in a realistic game, at least leave the option available.
Realism is unimportant compared to how fun the game is and should be secondary at most. Not only that but very few games can claim to be actually "realistic", CS and BF2 are unrealistic, they both have a friendly fire option and when it is on it is potentially ruinous in both games.
well, CS and BF2 have real guns and much more realistic everything.

In Call of Duty 2 there is a very active realism community, in BF2 there is project reality, those games actually have slight realism in them.

TF2 > BF, CS, CoD.
But the BF, CS and CoD games are not realistic like PR or ArmA or something. They are arcade shooters even though they have real scenarios. FF is in them for no good reason since in those games it is already established that realism in the gameplay is unimportant. FriendlyFire servers no purpose in those games since they are not trying to be realistic, and if they are then they're doing a really bad job.
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|7002|FUCK UBISOFT

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Miggle wrote:

or: How I Learned to Stop worrying and Love the Bomb wrote:


Realism is unimportant compared to how fun the game is and should be secondary at most. Not only that but very few games can claim to be actually "realistic", CS and BF2 are unrealistic, they both have a friendly fire option and when it is on it is potentially ruinous in both games.
well, CS and BF2 have real guns and much more realistic everything.

In Call of Duty 2 there is a very active realism community, in BF2 there is project reality, those games actually have slight realism in them.

TF2 > BF, CS, CoD.
But the BF, CS and CoD games are not realistic like PR or ArmA or something. They are arcade shooters even though they have real scenarios. FF is in them for no good reason since in those games it is already established that realism in the gameplay is unimportant. FriendlyFire servers no purpose in those games since they are not trying to be realistic, and if they are then they're doing a really bad job.
you can turn it off.

some people prefer more realism.
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6729

Miggle wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Miggle wrote:


well, CS and BF2 have real guns and much more realistic everything.

In Call of Duty 2 there is a very active realism community, in BF2 there is project reality, those games actually have slight realism in them.

TF2 > BF, CS, CoD.
But the BF, CS and CoD games are not realistic like PR or ArmA or something. They are arcade shooters even though they have real scenarios. FF is in them for no good reason since in those games it is already established that realism in the gameplay is unimportant. FriendlyFire servers no purpose in those games since they are not trying to be realistic, and if they are then they're doing a really bad job.
you can turn it off.

some people prefer more realism.
Then why not play a more realistic game? The point is that in unrealistic games, id est 95% of all FPSes FriendlyFire is no more than annoying and stupid, and no more. If you like getting killed pointlessly by a teammate than go play a realistic game where fun isn't important.

FriendlyFire makes games less fun, plain and simple. There is nothing fun about getting killed because of the negligence of your team or losing points because of the negligence of your team.

FF should be forced to be off in all but the most realistic games as it can be so ruinous to gameplay and serves no purpose in a game where fun is more important than realism.
Fat_Swinub
jaff
+125|6696
Friendly fire is to keep players rampaging like a bull in a china shop and to keep down people spamming something into a choke point without fear that they'll kill a teammate. It's not designed to make the player the victim of idiocy, that's just an annoying side-effect. In Team Fortress 2 where saturating a chokepoint is the name of the game, of course friendly fire is a no-no, that's just how the gameplay works in that particular game.
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|6642|the land of bourbon
well most games punish you for excessive friendly fire casualties, so it makes you aim a little more carefully.  i dont really mind it... as long as someone purposely hurting the team is dealt with.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6584|New Haven, CT
No grenade spamming.

Less spraying and praying.


Two easy reasons.
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|7002|FUCK UBISOFT

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Miggle wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:


But the BF, CS and CoD games are not realistic like PR or ArmA or something. They are arcade shooters even though they have real scenarios. FF is in them for no good reason since in those games it is already established that realism in the gameplay is unimportant. FriendlyFire servers no purpose in those games since they are not trying to be realistic, and if they are then they're doing a really bad job.
you can turn it off.

some people prefer more realism.
Then why not play a more realistic game? The point is that in unrealistic games, id est 95% of all FPSes FriendlyFire is no more than annoying and stupid, and no more. If you like getting killed pointlessly by a teammate than go play a realistic game where fun isn't important.

FriendlyFire makes games less fun, plain and simple. There is nothing fun about getting killed because of the negligence of your team or losing points because of the negligence of your team.

FF should be forced to be off in all but the most realistic games as it can be so ruinous to gameplay and serves no purpose in a game where fun is more important than realism.
some people prefer to have it...

having the option is better, if you don't like it, avoid servers with it.
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
DefCon-17
Maple Syrup Faggot
+362|6416|Vancouver | Canada

nukchebi0 wrote:

No grenade spamming.

Less spraying and praying.


Two easy reasons.
Two easy and painfully obvious reasons.

This thread is pointless.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6729

nukchebi0 wrote:

No grenade spamming.

Less spraying and praying.


Two easy reasons.
Most players still spam even with FF is on, so basically your still dying more often. FF just means that the spam hurts you as well, since most players will just spam anyway and hope for the best, no matter what.

How else do you explain all the times you get killed by your own arty or bombers in BF2? Or stray bullets in CS? Because most players think to fast and don't see that they may be harming a teammate. The "annoying side-effect" swinub mentioned is much harder felt by the victim than the attacker, so you are punishing the ones who are in the wrong place at the wrong time more than those who spam shit out.

And even then this still doesn't address the point that FF causes major grieving.

Last edited by DoctaStrangelove (2008-04-23 19:28:42)

nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6584|New Haven, CT

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

No grenade spamming.

Less spraying and praying.


Two easy reasons.
Most players still spam even with FF is on, so basically your still dying more often. FF just means that the spam hurts you as well, since most players will just spam anyway and hope for the best, no matter what.
Not on the servers I play on.

How else do you explain all the times you get killed by your own arty or bombers in BF2? Or stray bullets in CS? Because most players think to fast and don't see that they may be harming a teammate. The "annoying side-effect" swinub mentioned is much harder felt by the victim than the attacker, so you are punishing the ones who are in the wrong place at the wrong time more than those who spam shit out.
That what negatives scores and kicking (for them) are for.

And even then this still doesn't address the point that FF causes major grieving.
As does mindless grenade spamming and spraying and praying.

You remember the unparalleled whining about claymores and grenades with Karkand FF off? I never, ever played on FF off servers except when I needed to keep my precious tk:time ratio below one, because it was so much more enjoyable.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6967|67.222.138.85
I think it just depends on the game. I think BF2 and CS are balls without FF on, while TF2 and CoD4 are terrible with them on.
Volatile
Member
+252|6965|Sextupling in Empire

I personally won't play on BF2/ 2142 servers that have FF off. I just promotes cheap explosives/fire spamming. If you recklessly spam shit you get booted.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7032|PNW

You can turn FF off in most games. Funny that there's still a lot of serves that choose to retain it. A worse kind of FF is the one that kills you for accidentally shooting a teammate (especially the type that doesn't even hurt the other guy).

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-04-24 01:24:23)

Spidery_Yoda
Member
+399|6530
In my time playing BF2 i've thought this many many times.

Server rules always stated: No Teamkilling. Of course, 90% of the time the only reason Teamkills happen is by accident, much to the frustration of both the person tking and the person being tk'd. Why not turn FF off then you stupid servers.

I agree completely. Friendly fire has no place in online fps's.
aimless
Member
+166|6385|Texas
I hate playing in pubs with FF on. I go in to bomb what looks like a lonely tank only to end up killing 5 spec ops players trying to c4 it.
Lieutenant_Jensen
Your cops are corrupt.
+200|6651|fåking denmark
I like the realism FF gives, but bloody hell, it would be nice if your teammates used some brain.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6729

Lieutenant_Jensen wrote:

I like the realism FF gives, but bloody hell, it would be nice if your teammates used some brain.
Why is realism more important than fun gameplay? Games are not meant to be realistic they are meant to be fun. If you want realism than get a game where you die in one hit no matter what and your gun can't hit anything beyond ten feet after the second shot. Realism has no place in FPS and so neither does team-murdering

aimless wrote:

I hate playing in pubs with FF on. I go in to bomb what looks like a lonely tank only to end up killing 5 spec ops players trying to c4 it.
Yes, you need to be so careful not to kill allies in games with FriendlyFire that you leave yourself vulnerable. And if you aren't that careful, like 90% of all the other people who play FPSes online than you are punishing your teammates more than yourself for your carelessness which isn't fair.
-TL-
Srs lurker
+25|6753|Oklahoma City

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Why is realism more important than fun gameplay? Games are not meant to be realistic they are meant to be fun.
I find realism to be fun.  (Not to an extreme, obviously, but to an extent that includes FF)

I do agree, though, that it would be better to have more unrealistic games that were fun, like TF2, and more that sought their fun through realism, rather the messes of both (and thus barely either) that we have now.

Last edited by -TL- (2008-04-24 13:52:42)

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