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Topic closed

Poll

What should we do?

Nothing, leave it as it is.33%33% - 33
Go in, dismantle all the goverments, burn it down.7%7% - 7
Deport everyone to Madagascar.3%3% - 3
Fuck 'em, kill every last one of them. Nukem.42%42% - 42
Bake them cookies and hope they leave us alone.13%13% - 13
Total: 98
2006-02-08 09:36:48
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6922|San Francisco
Once again, I'm just going to post this:

The people who signed the PNAC report and the statement regarding what the PNAC is all about.

The People's New American Century (PNAC) Report

I know no one is probably going to read it, but if you do, 9/11 being an inside job only becomes more and more plausible.  This is a report that the people within the Bush Administration wrote during the Bush Sr. administration detailing out what they want to do with the world once they have a president in power.  Obviously, Clinton being elected dashed everything they wanted to do, so they moved on and pushed it all into GWB's agenda.  And yes, a lot of things out of the report have been enacted, mainly dealing with Civil Liberties and the Middle East, and a chilling passage straight from it:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."
~Page 51 of the PNAC report

That and a slough of facts that came out of ground zero that were just really odd...but I guess this isn't the place to talk about them since I'll just get shot down as yet another conspiracy theorist...
2006-02-08 10:50:05
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6986|MA, USA

Marconius wrote:

Once again, I'm just going to post this:

The people who signed the PNAC report and the statement regarding what the PNAC is all about.

The People's New American Century (PNAC) Report

I know no one is probably going to read it, but if you do, 9/11 being an inside job only becomes more and more plausible.  This is a report that the people within the Bush Administration wrote during the Bush Sr. administration detailing out what they want to do with the world once they have a president in power.  Obviously, Clinton being elected dashed everything they wanted to do, so they moved on and pushed it all into GWB's agenda.  And yes, a lot of things out of the report have been enacted, mainly dealing with Civil Liberties and the Middle East, and a chilling passage straight from it:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."
~Page 51 of the PNAC report

That and a slough of facts that came out of ground zero that were just really odd...but I guess this isn't the place to talk about them since I'll just get shot down as yet another conspiracy theorist...
That is pretty tenuous evidence for an accusation of treason.
2006-02-08 11:25:27
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6922|San Francisco
Possibly...but I'd rather stand up and ask questions and get them answered rather than sitting back and letting the government "take care" of everything at the moment.  Not enough people are doing it as 9/11 is a touchy subject...
bin Laden was trained by the CIA to take on the Soviets, plus his whole family has ties to the Bush administration.  I dunno, it's just my viewpoint.  I may be wrong and it might not have much to do with the Bush administration, but I have to say, something still feels really wrong about the events surrounding 9/11 and that it was more than a terrorist attack.

Citizen's Watch on the 9/11 commission report, which has been heavily censored for some reason
2006-02-08 12:01:34
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6986|MA, USA

Marconius wrote:

Possibly...but I'd rather stand up and ask questions and get them answered rather than sitting back and letting the government "take care" of everything at the moment.
Well, we agree on that much.  Still, I think the questions should have a more solid grounding in reality. 

If I'm going to indulge a suspicion, it's more likely to be the accusation that Bush's predilection with Iraq (He made it very clear that Iraq was going to be the center of his Middle East policy long before 9/11, and before he was even elected) is based on his personal feelings (he was pissed off by the fact that Saddam tried to knock off his dad).  This is not only more likely, but very worrying as well; if it is true he more or less sacrificed thousands of soldiers lives and hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money in a personal vendetta.  Unfortunately, there is no more solid evidence for this, than there is for your suspicions.
2006-02-08 12:13:31
Torin
Member
+52|6920
Like I said, it all started with a personal vendetta.

With all the lies and misinformation this administration has fed to the public, and all the real information they have held back, it's anybody's guess what really caused 9/11, led to the invasion of Iraq, etc. It's anybody's guess why the invasion of Afghanistan to capture Bin Ladin ended so abrutly and allowed such a smooth transition into Iraq, and why the hunt for Bin Ladin has all but been given up on. It's anybody's guess what is going on behind the scenes, and what the administration really has had planned all along, even for the undetermined future. It's anybody's guess how much, if any of the past 2 presidential elections have occured with voting fraud, or whether all the scandals surround the republican party in the past year are any real sign of deeper misgivings that are slowly making their way to the surface.... or maybe it's just coincidence.

The problem with conspiracy theories is they are just that because that cannot be proven or disproven. So much information is withheld and created out of thin air, that it is impossible for anyone to reason out the truth. I'd imagine that even to the people who know the real truth, reality has become so twisted that no one is exactly sure what is really real, or what is artificially real anymore.

I just can't wait for this administration to be over, because it is such a headache. I want a government that is 100 times more transparent. I don't believe in all this "we have to spy on our people and be secretive to protect them" bullshit, and I certainly don't believe the president or anyone has the right to break the laws, especially concerning my freedom, just because they feel the need to, for any reason. If there is a legitimate need to run wire taps, why not do it legit? If there was a legitimate reason to invade Iraq and start a war, why not do it legit?

And this is just the crap that we actually know about. Imagine all the stuff that we don't. It is very chilling to live in the here and now, knowing full well that the government is covering up god knows what, doing whatever it wants, and we will probably never know anything about it. I understand the need for a certain amount of discretion, but this is bordering on insanity.

Last edited by Torin (2006-02-08 12:15:44)

2006-02-08 13:58:39
Ziggy_79x
Member
+4|6913

Marconius wrote:

Once again, I'm just going to post this:

The people who signed the PNAC report and the statement regarding what the PNAC is all about.

The People's New American Century (PNAC) Report

I know no one is probably going to read it, but if you do, 9/11 being an inside job only becomes more and more plausible.  This is a report that the people within the Bush Administration wrote during the Bush Sr. administration detailing out what they want to do with the world once they have a president in power.  Obviously, Clinton being elected dashed everything they wanted to do, so they moved on and pushed it all into GWB's agenda.  And yes, a lot of things out of the report have been enacted, mainly dealing with Civil Liberties and the Middle East, and a chilling passage straight from it:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."
~Page 51 of the PNAC report

That and a slough of facts that came out of ground zero that were just really odd...but I guess this isn't the place to talk about them since I'll just get shot down as yet another conspiracy theorist...
Man, that's some deep shit. I didn't read it all but from what I did read it sounds like the Illuminati's plan for the 21st century on the way to their ultimate goal of one world government.

I also believe that 9/11 was probably either planned by our government, or more realistically ALLOWED TO HAPPEN to gain support for such action that has been taken since then. Like I said DEEP SHIT. So deep that most law abiding, god fearing Americans can't and don't want to wrap their minds around it.

Edit: You aren't alone in being a conspiracy theorist Marco

Last edited by Ziggy_79x (2006-02-08 14:03:30)

2006-02-08 14:18:30
Torin
Member
+52|6920
I've consider 9/11 as being planned by our government to be a possibility, but as there is no basis to argue for it or against it, I've merely decided not to particular in such a discussion. I think it is a mighty strong coincidence that 9/11 happened and transitioned into the invasion of Iraq, and arguable completely unrealated (and prior to 9/11) and unfounded move to make on behalf of the US.

Regardless to say, 9/11 considering the events that followed, is mighty damn fishy, and I would not put it past this Administration or PNAC to engineer or at least have a part in it happening. However, since no reasonable proof can be provided to support such a theory, it will most likely forever be left to conspiracy.

Stuff like this is what really pisses me off about this administration, that you can't draw a conclusion about a lot of stuff one way or another, because the administration, their goals and what they are actually doing is so hidden to the public's eyes.
2006-02-08 14:21:33
Orion5413
Member
+4|6915|Irving Tx
Cougar how do you like that mosq on Esters....Marconius  you are the reason why calif ppl cant leave the state your the kind of person who gives creedence to the term fruits and nuts.
2006-02-08 14:21:35
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6999|Atlanta, GA USA

Torin wrote:

I don't believe in all this "we have to spy on our people and be secretive to protect them" bullshit, and I certainly don't believe the president or anyone has the right to break the laws, especially concerning my freedom, just because they feel the need to, for any reason. If there is a legitimate need to run wire taps, why not do it legit? If there was a legitimate reason to invade Iraq and start a war, why not do it legit?

And this is just the crap that we actually know about. Imagine all the stuff that we don't. It is very chilling to live in the here and now, knowing full well that the government is covering up god knows what, doing whatever it wants, and we will probably never know anything about it. I understand the need for a certain amount of discretion, but this is bordering on insanity.
I'll agree with you on this one.  Unfortunately, I think shit like this goes on in every administration.
2006-02-08 14:31:28
Torin
Member
+52|6920
Hence the need for a more transparent goverment, keeping in mind certain needs that are logical for keeping certain information out of an enemy's hands.

There is a fine line between keeping absolutely everything a secret, and keeping only what an enemy could use against us a secret. What harm would it have caused if the administration came out about the NSA's wiretapping program when it was initiated? If it was a legitimate thing for the President to order, what harm would there be in letting the public know what was going on? At least that way we wouldn't feel like they are secretly spying on us with no real cause other than they wanted to.

Blah, I hate Bush.
2006-02-08 15:04:17
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6922|San Francisco
I full on agree for a more transparent government.  Too many people assume in this day in age, which causes more conflict than "protection" when a gov't keeps secrets.  This leads to conspiracy theories all the way up to tension between countries themselves.

And Orion...could you please contribute something more than just a badly worded personal attack without even considering the information I provided?
2006-02-08 15:21:58
Torin
Member
+52|6920
I think he resorts to personal attacks BECAUSE he has nothing to contribute.

I can't imagine being uninformed and ignorant, seeing a good, purposed discussion going on and having neither the understanding or the background knowledge to be able to say something worthwhile. Must be hard, Orion.

Edit: Yes, how ironic of me.

Last edited by Torin (2006-02-08 15:22:24)

2006-02-09 06:52:49
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6992|Dallas

Orion5413 wrote:

Cougar how do you like that mosq on Esters....Marconius  you are the reason why calif ppl cant leave the state your the kind of person who gives creedence to the term fruits and nuts.
Say wha?

As much of a prick as Marconius has come off in my view in the past two days, he still has a right to his opinion, just as I have a right to my opinion in the orginal post.  That also goes for all the rest of you fuckers who are saying "Cuoger is a raceist barstard!!!2111", it's my opinion and if you don't like it then lick my taint.

Now, as for me contributing to the thread.....

This whole 9-11 conspiracy theory, while I won't try to disprove it rather simply disagree, seems a little to far fetched and complicated for a "secret group of folks in the white house" to pull off.  I mean, they can't even catch Bin Laden, much less orchestrate the highjacking of 3 planes with foriegn nationals and ram them into buildings packed with Americans, and I'm sure the last thing they would want to blow up would be the Pentagon.  Now, do I beleive they may have "just let it happen", yeah, thats definitly a possibility and I don't rule it out at all.  There are several "benifits" for us going to war.  Oil, legacy, Haliburton, military arms manufacturers, contract labors, etc etc etc.  Alot of people profited from this war and a few of those people are in goverment, so I don't rule out the whole "they let it happen" theory.
2006-02-09 08:08:26
Berserk_Vampire
Banned
+7|6916
Lets cover the United States in a massive ocean of flames burning every one alive it will be a celebration.
2006-02-09 09:36:30
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6986|MA, USA
I think the best way to have a more transparent government, is to have a lot less of it.  Without the massive budgets and the unlimited authority, it would be a lot easier to keep an eye on.

Berserk_Vampire wrote:

Lets cover the United States in a massive ocean of flames burning every one alive it will be a celebration.
Let's cover  Berserk_Vampire (the racist) in honey and throw him into the bear pit at the zoo.  It will be a celebration.
2006-02-09 09:45:42
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6999|Atlanta, GA USA
I wish someone would ban Berserk_Vampire from this section of the forum.  I don't think he has made a legitimate post in a week (if ever).
2006-02-09 13:01:07
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6986|MA, USA
S4vior6:  Don't know if you are reading this thread, but thought I would post here, as the other one got shut down:

s4vior6 wrote:

@whittsend : They can get as offended as they wish.  They have no right to harm anyone or anything.

I totally agree, If there's need to place blame, I'd put it in both parties.

For the publishers, in their part, if they knew what was going to happen, they at least should have cancelled the article (or W/e) the same way they cancelled a Jesus-Ressurection satire a couple of years ago.

For the muslims, come on, do you really need to kill someone, anyone or any danish person because of a cartoon? you want to kill a danish citizen because he's from the same country as the publisher of the magazine. You always say, we generalize muslims as terrorists, you're doing the same.
My reply is re: the publishers.

A few people, here and elsewhere, have suggested that the publishers shouldn't have posted the cartoons in question.  I agree that it wasn't prudent to post those cartoons, but I don't think they should have been restricted in any way.  Also, some of the Muslims have demanded the EU pass a law banning depictions of the prophet.  I hope they do not do this.  Why?  Because free speech you can't use, isn't free. 

The Clash: Know Your Rights wrote:

Know your rights
Number 3:
You have the right to free speech
as long as
you're not dumb enough to actually try it.
That song, is actually a form of satire, just like the cartoons.  Let's not bring it to life by giving the violent protesters what they want.
2006-02-09 13:45:06
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6895

HellHead wrote:

So if you raise the living standard in a country, the people will automatically lose their interest in their believes in religion a lot, so the leaders can´t use it any more as a power of control
So true.  Look at all the countries that have a significant amount of Muslims with relatively high per capita income.  You will rarely see internal extremist activities.  Look at Bahrain, Brunei, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (sorta), UAE, Singapore.


Love this comment regarding Brunei:
"Sultan Bolkiah began taking cautious steps toward democratic reform in Sept. 2004, when he reinstated parliament for the first time since Brunei gained independence in 1984. He was widely praised in May 2005 when he fired four members of his cabinet, including the education minister, whose plan to expand religious education angered many parents."  Many well-off Muslims don't want religion pushed in there face.


Edit:  Oops. Sorry for repeating what has been said.  Didn't see Cyborg-Ninja's comments on the above.  My bad.  Consider it a reaffirmation.

Last edited by Ilocano (2006-02-09 14:10:17)

2006-02-09 18:01:05
xX[Elangbam]Xx
Member
+107|6925
ummmm they're sick of us americans. here's what happens on a daily basis:
school shootings
rape
incest
homicides
high teen suicides
political lies and schemes
missionary work to take over other people
condemning other people
making political scapegoats
going to war for no good reason
thinking that we are the best and better than others

now read that and shut the fuck up, and if you don't still, take the dick out of you mouth and ass and think about it again
2006-02-09 18:46:28
mother
Member
+0|6880
I'm fed up with listening to Allah this and Allah that and how the infidel will beg for forgiveness come the Jihad or similar rhetoric.  Can't these people just calm down a little?  If the nightly dose of TV news is to be believed these people seem to have 3 emotions:

1.  Extreme anger - re. Danish cartoon
2.  Extreme sorrow - re. Take your pick of sobbing old women
3.  Extreme Joy - re. Well, not much evidence of that recently, but hey, think Kuwaity liberation

I'm also fed up with hearing that Islam is a benign religon; pfff, there's no such thing.  The main goal of this and all other religons is to achieve world domination through assimilation.  When they are part of a minority it's all peace and love but as soon as they get significant political power your being stoned for blaspheming.

Anyway, these people are entitled to live their lives as they wish and we shouldn't try to stop them as this seems to be the crux of today's problem.  So here's my advice on how to tune them out:

1.  Buy a Toyota Prius or a similar hybrid car.  Can't afford that, take the bus or another form of public transport once or twice a week.

2. Write to whoever is your political representative (MP, congressman or whatever) and tell them you want to see your country rely less on oil.

Hopefully if enough people do this the middle east will become just another desert with some colourful inhabitants who don't think much of us in the west.

Last edited by mother (2006-02-09 18:47:55)

2006-02-22 16:46:55
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7065

whittsend wrote:

Marconius wrote:

I'll preface this by saying that I have very strong inclinations that 9/11 was an inside job, and had several years of planning behind it masterminded by the PNAC group (Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc.).  It's also really hard to speculate since we were fed false information by the Bush administration so far.
Um, are you suggesting that the Bush Administration organized the 9/11 attacks?

Let me state something before I continue.  I think that Bush is a shitty President.  Possibly the shittiest in my lifetime (which stretches back to LBJ).  I also have grave reservations about US action in Iraq.

Nevertheless, If I am not misinterpreting what you typed (and I certainly hope I did), that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.  That is Michael Moore wet dream fantasyland.  Where would you possibly get such nonsense?

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

...and saudi... well i dont know much about it... but my teacher used to teach there and said it was nice
I bet your teacher wasn't a woman.
The shittiest U.S. President was the one who didn't have he balls to respond to 9 seperate attacks on his country the jerk off, hillary's husband, whats his name .
2006-02-23 00:12:11
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6902|Canberra, AUS

Cougar wrote:

Marconius wrote:

No one gives a damn if you or the rest of the world are getting sick of hearing news stories from the Middle East.  The point is they live here on this planet too, and have every right to be here.  So many countries have tried to take advantage of that area it's left them in a completely ravaged and wasted state.
What we DON'T need to proliferate around is ignorance and intolerance...all that induces culture clashing from both sides of this conflict.

10.  Osama only seems to pop up any time the Bush administration is in trouble.  Looking back on how many ties the Bush family has with the bin Laden family, I don't have a hard time at all to believe that they are in cahoots.

9.  Syria didn't do what?  Explain more, and realize that every country happens to harbor terrorists/funds terrorist cells in some way or another.  The heightened awareness and over-proportioning of Islamic terrorists just comes from all the spinning the mass media has put on everything leading up to and revolving around our Iraq Invasion.  In this "War on Terrorism," we've somehow neglected to go after other terrorist cells in other countries, i.e., Aum Shinrikyo in Japan, the IRA in Ireland, etc...

8.  By your account, once again it's media spin.  Nothing to do with the Middle East at all other than journalists blowing everything out of proportion. 

7.  What the fuck else are they going to do?!  Actually TRY to take on the world's Largest military force with their soviet weapons and overall lack of training (compared to our forces)?  You've underestimated them...if you think that they are afraid of the US Forces and will just come out surrendering, you're wrong.  They have an agenda of their own, and will have to do anything other than surrendering to get it done.  It's a fear factor.  Random people getting kidnapped makes it seem like no foreigners are safe when entering Iraq, and it also means that the Insurgents are still very serious about their cause.

6.  Right...yell "BOMB" in any American mall and watch all the Americans just give up and go "Well shit...looks like I'm dead!"  Shit happens, and even moreso in an area ravaged by fighting and random bombings.  People like to live, asshole, and are usually inclined to save themselves if a threat arises, no matter what the consequences are of them trying to save themselves/their family.

5.  Once again, the countries have been so economically strained from corrupt dictatorships and outside governments trying to control all of their resources, a vast majority of the population in the Middle East is stuck in poverty.  You obviously don't understand the strife that they have gone through, and are enduring now because we decided to occupy their country.

4.  One way of them fighting back.  It's too bad they've had to resort to it, and it always results in more innocent people dead, but this ties right back into #7.

3.  The Middle East is governed by a collection of Theocracies.  It's what happens when religion interweaves itself with government and politics.  You also have collections of radical Imams who are teaching young, disenfranchised youths the ideas of their ideal situation, resulting in the suicide bombings and figuring out ways to attack the US invaders without getting completely wiped out and to hopefully cause their retreat.

2.  Iran's government definitely does not reflect the views and opinions of the majority of the rest of Iran.  It's now up to the younger and growing citizens of Iran to cause dissent against the views and wishes of their government in the hopes that nothing will escalate in the hatred against the US.

1.  This line of thinking is only going to get more and more people killed with no resolve.

It's not the US's decision as to who gets to live here in the world.  We aren't the World Police.  We aren't a Hegemony, for fucks sake.  We are a large country that's confused, trying to deal with problems at home while the elected governing administration decides to meddle with world affairs hell-bent on getting their own agenda up and running.  It's now up to the rest of the world to urge diplomacy and tolerance, but I see it's too late to tide you over towards tolerance. 
You'd rather just go over there and slaughter every last one of them to get your point made that "we are better in every way!"
10. Typical Anti-Bush non-sense...

9. The Syrian goverment was accused of having a hand in the assissination of Rafik Hariri, which they of course denied.  Hariri was instrumental in pushing the Syrian goverment out of Lebanon and many other anti-Syrian roles.  Also, it seems your tangent went off the course of my original point.  I was giving reasons why anyone would "doubt what Syria says".

8. More or less.  My topic was 80% anti Middle East 20% anti Media.

7.  What else are they going to do?  Ohh poor poor terrorists, they can't stand up to our military.  My heart goes out to them.  Well for starters, STOP KILLING PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO REBUILD YOUR COUNTRY!!  Second, stop killing journalists, instead, tell them a nice story or their point of view and have the journalist work thier typical media bullshit sympothy story.  Cutting thier head off just pisses EVERYONE off and makes thier situation that much worse.  People aren't going to stop coming there because people are being beheaded, the money is substantial for doing work there and if they don't do it, someone else will.  Hell, there was a 16 or something year old that flew there on his own, he didn't seem to scared and I'm sure he's seen the news or at least heard about all this shit.

6.  Blow up or get trampled to death.  I choose insta-death.  Also people in American malls usually aren't packed in shoulder to shoulder for a 4 mile stretch like cattle.

5.  Well, they can move can't they?  Iran is right there and I hear they have a wonderful new goverment.

4.  Ok, you say this ties into #7.  So by your train of thought, since they cannot stand up to our military they need to kill upwards of 30 innocent Iraqis in a crowded market to kill the 1 GI standing guard on the corner?  You condone this?  What are you, Stalins little brother or something?  Besides the fact that killing 30 Iraqis to kill 1 or 2 GI's is ridiculas and stupid.

3.  Kudos to the Middle Eastern people for not doing a god-damned thing about it.

2. Agreed, yet holding your breath for this to happen will likely result in a premature death.

1. No.

What would you do if the guy down the street took a bulldozer and ran it into your house and then stuck around long enough to light you mailbox on fire while your wife, kids and neighbors stood there and watched?  You would probably go kick his ass.  Then after you do that, he starts throwing rocks through his neighbors windows and blaming it on you until eventually the whole block hates your guts.

Same concept.
Can both of you present your sources? I agree with Marc, by the way.

Just one thing. Islam is HARSH. Nations that follow shariah law (the law of the Koran) follow these laws

"If thy eye offends thee, take it out"

Meaning: In Saudi Arabia, if you are caught watching porn, there goes one eye.

Similar for every other part of the body (hands, feet etc.)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-02-23 00:38:18
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6900|Colorado
When the world realizes that we dont need religion or politics is when this issue will be solved.

I could argue for both sides for I pride myself on being able to see the situation thru everyones eyes , all I see is that neither of you two or the rest of you for that matter has the answers to make things right.

We need leaders,but they dont make them anymore.

On a side note, never argue religion or politics... it gets you nowhere fast. end topic.
2006-02-23 03:27:17
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7069|Cologne, Germany

atlvolunteer wrote:

I wish someone would ban Berserk_Vampire from this section of the forum.  I don't think he has made a legitimate post in a week (if ever).
looks like that has happened in the meantime...
2006-02-23 07:11:53
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6986|MA, USA

xX[Elangbam]Xx wrote:

ummmm they're sick of us americans. here's what happens on a daily basis:
school shootings
rape
incest
homicides
high teen suicides
political lies and schemes
missionary work to take over other people
condemning other people
making political scapegoats
going to war for no good reason
thinking that we are the best and better than others

now read that and shut the fuck up, and if you don't still, take the dick out of you mouth and ass and think about it again
Who are you addressing, and what are you trying to say?

Problems that we have in the US are no excuse for actions of people outside the US unless those problems affect them directly (such as the one you mentioned about warfare).  Some of the 'problems' you listed are your opinion and therefore meaningless.

Horseman 77 wrote:

The shittiest U.S. President was the one who didn't have he balls to respond to 9 seperate attacks on his country the jerk off, hillary's husband, whats his name .
I am no Clinton fan either...but with Clinton you got what was advertised.  No surprises there.  Bush was bait and switch.  He is not for small government, as he claimed, but is instead a big government social conservative.  His actions, in practice, restrict liberties and grow government power, authority and size.  It is the worst of all possible things.  Truly the worst president I can remember.

Last edited by whittsend (2006-02-23 07:12:35)

Topic closed

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