How many more school kids have to die?

2022-05-29 04:04:58

#251

Larssen: Member; +99|2115

America just has a culture that condones and cheers excessive, deadly violence. It's apparent in their military spending, veteran worship, the need for politicians to appear as strongmen, the 2nd amendment discussions. That mixed with a distrust of authority..

It's going to take a long time until gun laws are repealed, if ever, and because of the sheer amount of weapons in the country and aformentioned cultural factor chances are it won't help much either.

2022-05-29 04:07:43

#252

uziq: Member; +494|3680

it's patently obvious that all the 2A stuff is just basically a backdoor for fascist-authoritarian, far-right goons to get a free pass. the only groups who are actively militating and organizing under such a principle are white supremacist, nativist, deeply problematic types. literally 90%+ of americans are in support of SOME form of gun regulation, but it's the historic ruling-class who are funding the status quo.

if there's ever to be a civil war, as per that james meek article (linked in the presidential election thread), it's likely going to be enabled by a bunch of gun-toting 'militiamen' who have been using the 2A in a maximally dishonest way. stockpiling all those weapons isn't about resisting 'tyranny'. it's about interrupting the just processes of democracy. the capitol hill riots were just the beginning. a lot of people in america think that their grievances and their personal arsenals give them the right to overturn presidential results they don't like.

2022-05-29 04:33:02

#253

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,814|6333|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:
a lot of people in america think that their grievances and their personal arsenals give them the right to overturn presidential results they don't like.

That is the whole point of the 2A and most of the constitution though.

Its worth reading up on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Am … nstitution

Fuck Israel

2022-05-29 04:35:25

#254

uziq: Member; +494|3680

erm last time i checked, legal, nonfraudulent, congressionally approved elections weren’t ‘tyranny’.

2022-05-29 04:54:54

#255

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,814|6333|eXtreme to the maX

Was it legal and non-fraudulent though?

I'm sure Putin will tell you his election was all above board.

The US constitution is a strange piece of work to be sure.

Fuck Israel

2022-05-29 05:09:50

#256

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6944

Dilbert_X wrote:
Was it legal and non-fraudulent though?

Trump's own lawyers didn't think it was fraud.

The judge told Goldstein he read the petition, and asked him to confirm he isn’t claiming any fraud. Goldstein replied: “Your Honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step. And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith. The DNC is coming with good faith. We’re all just trying to get an election done. We think these were a mistake, but we think they are a fatal mistake, and these ballots ought not be counted.”

The judge replied: “I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?”

“To my knowledge at present, no,” Goldstein replied.

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article … -admission

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2022-05-29 05:11:20

#257

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6944

Dilbert_X wrote:
Was it legal and non-fraudulent though?

I'm sure Putin will tell you his election was all above board.

The US constitution is a strange piece of work to be sure.

guess you're not a reasonable person dilbs

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … aud-claims

“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” argued lawyers for Powell, a former federal prosecutor from Texas who caught Trump’s attention through her involvement in the defense of his former national security adviser Michael Flynn.

2022-05-29 05:13:28

#258

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6944

Dilbert_X wrote:
Also the 2A never allowed people to own guns for hunting or self-defence, only defence of the state.

2A has been ruled for the purposes of self defence in SCOTUS.

Last edited by Cybargs (2022-05-29 05:13:38)

2022-05-29 07:04:01

#259

Larssen: Member; +99|2115

uziq wrote:
if there's ever to be a civil war, as per that james meek article (linked in the presidential election thread), it's likely going to be enabled by a bunch of gun-toting 'militiamen' who have been using the 2A in a maximally dishonest way. stockpiling all those weapons isn't about resisting 'tyranny'. it's about interrupting the just processes of democracy. the capitol hill riots were just the beginning. a lot of people in america think that their grievances and their personal arsenals give them the right to overturn presidential results they don't like.

I read the article, but let's accept that Barbara Walter's book makes some very questionable arguments on how civil wars start. Notably the reductive quantification and putting all her eggs in the Centre for Systemic Peace basket while the same infallible data wizards apparently judged the UK during the outbreak of the troubles a 10/10 democracy (among other issues). Goes to show the assumptions and notions that determine the numerical outcome of some algorithm hocus pocus should be a little more closely considered.

That said I do agree with the premise that civil wars show recurring patterns, but each one has its own unique context and discourse to consider, which hardly lends itself well for quantification.

If her argument explores the notion of just civil wars and just violence as well, to later draw parallels with the United States and leave the reader with the implicit notion that the 'liberal order' (and people of colour are apparently mentioned explicitly in there as well) must be ready to fight the probable white male conservative usurpers.... not sure if that's the right message to put out. Seems a little devoid of self reflection as well. Perhaps Walter's cultural baggage and emotional attachment to her own country's political state of affairs is clouding her judgment just a tiny bit.

Not to state that the capitol riots, the abduction plots we read about and Trump's dismissal of the election results aren't highly alarming. But I don't see the US dive into 1861 volume 2 just yet.

Last edited by Larssen (2022-05-29 07:04:39)

2022-05-29 11:10:59

#260

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3947

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
SuperJail Warden wrote:
you would go to a job site in kevlar?
Weird "catch," read again. To clarify, I wouldn't want to go a job site at all if I felt the need for it.

What job site in America would you be too afraid to go to?

I just don't get this fear that people have in this country. Reminds me of a guy in a bar I heard talking about how much he wants concealed carry to come to NJ. He was unloading a box or something from a truck and a crackhead, or what he thinks was a crackhead, came up to him and started talking. The crackhead eventually left without incident but the guy still felt he would have been safer with a gun. Nevermind the fact that in a state with less gun control, the crackhead or whatever would be armed too.

I understand for some white people the very presence of non-white people is threatening and I don't think Newbie is one of those people FWIW. I just have never been in a situation where I felt I needed a gun or felt to be in some mortal danger. It is a bizarre way of thinking.

2022-05-29 16:25:35

#261

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6999|PNW

We really doing this? I'd rather avoid areas of frequent violent crime, especially during peak activity. Come on, mac, this is common sense stuff. You're getting so tunnel visioned on this as some kind of "opening," and you still haven't commented on the guy who wants to ban body armor but not more guns. At least I thought it was funny.

Stop bullying me.

2022-05-29 19:02:00

#262

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3947

The bullying will continue until morale improves.

Tangent about the police...a local board of education is at odds with the city government regarding placing a marijuana dispensary near a school. It is a federal offense to sell drugs within 1000 feet of a school. That brought back memories of high school. Cops would trick teens into setting up pot deals near schools so that they could stack heavier charges on them.

Cops can be pretty clever when it comes to tricking children into committing federal drug crimes but can't figure out how to get into a room for 78 minutes. I can't imagine the anger of people who got their life derailed because of mendacious cops and then have to see this happen.

2022-05-29 19:22:16

#263

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6999|PNW

On another tangent, we all know that Republicans don't like people being made to feel uncomfortable, which is of course why they staunchly stand against stuff like CRT and wokeness (whatever those might mean from one day to the next).

Meanwhile, the NRA is giving away the gun used in the Robb Elementary shooting. Having read the room I suppose and deciding "FYF."

NRA hosts 'banned guns giveaway' highlighting weapon used by Uvalde shooter
https://news.yahoo.com/nra-hosts-banned … 56572.html

2022-05-29 19:27:02

#264

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6999|PNW

Another sidebar story from Business Insider:

Texas Gov. Abbott gave 2 different speeches about gun control at the same time with 2 different messages. One was in Uvalde, the other was at the NRA convention in Houston.
https://www.businessinsider.com/texas-a … ime-2022-5

- Texas Gov. Greg Abbott gave 2 speeches about gun violence on Friday with different messages.
- In Uvalde, he said legislation is "on the table" to address gun violence following a shooting that killed 21.
- To an NRA audience, Abbott said laws do not stop "madmen" from "carrying out evil."

2022-05-29 20:49:49

#265

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3947

The New York Times had an article about the business that made the artisanal ar-15 the killer used. They apparently are particularly uh political/outspoken in their advertising.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer company. I don't think the shooter followed the Twitter of this company. I think he saw that they have a a rifle with a built with in forward grip and bought that because it was less work than putting in a forward grip themselves.

I will go into this in more detail later.

2022-05-30 02:34:04

#266

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,814|6333|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
On another tangent, we all know that Republicans don't like people being made to feel uncomfortable, which is of course why they staunchly stand against stuff like CRT and wokeness (whatever those might mean from one day to the next).

Maybe we can involve the NRA by triggering them?

What if, mid-rampage, a transgender mass-shooter needed a bathroom break and went into the wrong bathroom?
Would the NRA be willing to fund an armed bathroom gender-inspector to be placed in every school?

Fuck Israel

2022-05-30 02:43:40

#267

uziq: Member; +494|3680

funnily enough, some unseemly parts of the right-wing online media already spread the rumour that this shooter was trans.

2022-05-30 03:49:08

#268

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,814|6333|eXtreme to the maX

Which is funny because the average morbidly obese person is practically trans thanks to their fucked up hormonal balance.

Fuck Israel

2022-05-30 09:12:10

#269

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6999|PNW

Practically…trans? "Who needs a psychiatrist, endocrinologist, a careful regimen of prescription drugs, and the usual lifestyle change. Just get fat."

wat

2022-05-30 14:37:28

#270

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6999|PNW

random find

2022-05-30 14:49:17

#271

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3947

Tyranny has come to Canada. They are going to pass a huge gun control bill requiring mandatory buy backs.

2022-05-30 19:15:00

#272

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6912|United States of America

Dilbert_X wrote:
uziq wrote:
a lot of people in america think that their grievances and their personal arsenals give them the right to overturn presidential results they don't like.
That is the whole point of the 2A and most of the constitution though.

Its worth reading up on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Am … nstitution

The "the purpose is so we can overthrow the government" sort of line is NRA revisionism. There wasn't an effective standing army here in 1791.

2022-05-31 03:17:24

#273

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,814|6333|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:
Tyranny has come to Canada. They are going to pass a huge gun control bill requiring mandatory buy backs.

Pure posturing, Canada basically doesn't have assault rifles so there'll be no buyback.
Stopping sales and transfers of handguns but not having a buyback is gutless.

Fuck Israel

2022-06-01 18:54:31

#274

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3947

4 dead "less than 10 wounded" in another mass shooting at a hospital in Kansas.

We need to arm doctors.

2022-06-01 20:19:24

#275

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6999|PNW

I'm not convinced bullets are enough to stop some nurses.

BF2S Forums How many more school kids have to die?

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

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