BF2S Forums Transgender people are now allowed into the military

How does our resident english literature graduate feel about the singular they?

I had no idea this was a thing.

Larssen wrote:

How does our resident english literature graduate feel about the singular they?

I had no idea this was a thing.

I find it surprising that a European bureaucrat would be unaware of this stuff.

re: singular 'they,' much as DF said. "He or she" feels clunky. "His and hers" gets away with it to some extent due to its presence in marketing. "Dear sir or madam," almost painfully formal. "Is the man of the house in?" can probably be safely disposed of as a little dated.

English is still sort of developing on these gendered adjectives. People inventing entirely new words for this sort of thing to the annoyance of purists. "They" is rather benign.

Evolving language, blah blah blah.

I feel like the context for a lot of this stuff can be really obvious. Insisting on binary language only because "it's the only way we can be sure," a bit of a strange hill to die on. Silly crutch and much mockable by languages with less dressing than English. "We know what you mean because we're not fucking retarded."

It's been the language of conservative media for much of many adults' living memory, more than enough time for talk show hosts to get their hooks into the minds of people half listening. Like hypnosis tapes that make you irate against lesbian teachers. It's hard to draw a connection for a conservative between conservatives wanting to be left alone and everyone else wanting to be left alone, because they didn't become angry at everyone else by applying reason or argumentation. A lot of these people are walking triggers waiting to be pulled. Go onto a Republican forum and type something good about AOC.

I'm fine with people wanting to be addressed by preferred pronouns (even if I think the pronoun is silly) just so long as they don't get bent out of shape if someone forgets or doesn't get it right the first time. Him/her/etc. are still perfectly good pronouns and it would make me sad to always default to they/them for the sake of "not assuming gender," and then still make some people angry for getting it wrong.

pronouns shift all the time. they’re one of the most substitutable parts of syntax. as long as everyone knows what you’re pointing towards, does it matter?

we don’t call our elders ‘sir’ or refer to young ‘master’s anymore. does it actually fucking matter?

‘their’/‘they’ have always been neutral forms of address. not sure if it’s just your non-native perspective that gives it a tin-ear aspect.

teach you something every day.

Hey in societies like ours, those people often hoodwink themselves.

I'm fine with it, the above was an attempt at understanding my own initial reaction and the conservative backlash (of which I am no part and have no part in)

Isn't Casey a unisex name anyway?

I can see into the future, won't be long before someone gets punched for calling a cisgender person 'they' completely innocently.

How are your kids? Are they doing well?

the other side of all this fuss and conniption over an extreme minority group (i.e. actual transgender people who may or may not be causing discomfort to people) is that all the focus on gender/power has genuinely made society a noticeably better, more gentle and courteous place, imo.

even a generation ago the media and common culture was full of 'lad's mags' with just the worst sorts of boorish, odious opinion. any girl who wanted to even socialize in a male-dominated space, be it an indie rock club or a sporting venue, would have to become a 'bit rough' and play-up the 'tomboy' act. it was just inconceivable that a girl could have 'blokes' interests'. really dumb when you think about it.

more seriously, some parts of male-dominated, patriarchal or 'masculinist' societies are just ugly beyond belief. 25 years ago in the UK the main national tabloids used to have weekly, if not daily, talk about young girls coming of ages. young popstars and minors would have countdowns kept on them 'turning 16' or 18. emma watson had this growing up; as did the olsen twins in the states. national speculation about a young nubile becoming legal. every day there would be topless pictures of 'jinny, 17, from essex' on page 3 of the national tabloids. imagine growing up in that culture as a woman.

sexual harrassment, cat-calling in the street, approaching and intimidating girls who have the nerve to just, erm, be out and about going about their own business, seems much less frequent now in the younger generations. as does groping and unwanted advances, the casual entitlement that young men, probably even of my own generation when i think about it, took for granted in their early teen years.

the gen-z'ers might be 'snowflakes' making an awful fuss over syntax but the society they're creating seems more welcoming to me. even if all the political conscientiousness does seem like an awful strain at times; better they try and make a go of that than give into the usual assigned gender roles where 'boys will be boys' and girls, well, girls mostly have to pick up after their shit behaviour. feminism and gay rights, like minority struggles, tends to soften society for everyone, i think. a lot of shitty behaviour gets called out now.

i don't think the way boys and girls treat one another has much to do with geopolitical struggle or military might, dilbert.

what a bizarre little fascist imaginarium you inhabit. 'we must be tough and boys must be boys so that we can beat russia!'

it's like you're straight out of the crew-cutted 1950s. that worked out real well.

it doesn't seem particularly desirable to be in a race to the bottom with russia and china, where far-right gangs of thugs still torch gay bars and lynch people who even look gay, or where cultural genocide is very much under way. what's worth emulating there?