as a member of the proletariat, you should take an interest in marxist economics.Jay wrote:
OkSuperJail Warden wrote:
full communism has never been tried. the soviet union was state capitalist. ownership of the means of production by the state is the final stage of capitalism.Jay wrote:
It's been the result every time marxism has been deployed, not capitalism.
Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2016-05-30 13:32:48)
lol no you aren't. unless you own the company you work for or an independently working tradesman you are just a prole.Jay wrote:
Don't you follow my facebook? I'm solidly boogie
I speak Spanish and go to Broadway shows a few times a yearuziq wrote:
everyone in America considers themselves middle-class except for a tiny sliver of old blue-collar stock.
most are working class and the middle-class is vanishing.
the definition of class in america almost entirely dismisses social and cultural class distinctions, too.
try and imagine jay at the theatre or speaking a foreign language. good god.
The effects go well beyond a few people being unemployed.Jay wrote:
So we should keep the factories open just because people live there? That's stupid and you know it. Their parents and grandparents moved to the city because they heard there was work there. They can do the same and move to where the work is instead of whining incessantly about "they took ur jerbs". The people who live in the Rust Belt did themselves in. The union employees wanted to work as little as possible while making the most money they could (completely rational, but self defeating).uziq wrote:
you'd feel differently about it if you lived in flint, michigan and didn't have giant socialised workfare schemes to remunerate and educate you.
commie
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2016-05-30 15:03:17)
jay's bourgeoisie bosses let him keep an above average amount of his labor value compared to the other proletariat. clearly the system works. he is truly free from the class struggle.uziq wrote:
textbook false consciousness.
I don't see how a VAT is helpful. It's a regressive tax whose burden falls most heavily on the poor. Most states have a sales tax, in New York it is 8.875% on every purchase, with higher excise taxes on vice items. Sales taxes in general are terrible because they discourage commerce and suck productive money out of the economy with every transaction.Dilbert_X wrote:
The effects go well beyond a few people being unemployed.Jay wrote:
So we should keep the factories open just because people live there? That's stupid and you know it. Their parents and grandparents moved to the city because they heard there was work there. They can do the same and move to where the work is instead of whining incessantly about "they took ur jerbs". The people who live in the Rust Belt did themselves in. The union employees wanted to work as little as possible while making the most money they could (completely rational, but self defeating).uziq wrote:
you'd feel differently about it if you lived in flint, michigan and didn't have giant socialised workfare schemes to remunerate and educate you.
commie
Negative balance of trade and debt to foreign countries. And I agree, in many cases unions have cut their own throats, but still, govts which follow free market theory beyond their own interests have encouraged it with high corporate taxes and low personal and consumption taxes. America is about the only country in the world without a VAT.
Federal debt - the govt spending 40% more than it receives in taxes.
These are bad things, whatever the inane theories you subscribe to say.
By 2030 America will not be able to borrow any more, Federal spending will have to be cut savagely - either the military or social spending will have to be cut to zero, imports will also be unaffordable.
Then its going to hurt like you can't imagine.
I don't care that you bury your head in the sand, you're going to be amongst the hardest hit.
Read the book if you want, or don't, I don't care.
You guys are idiots lolSuperJail Warden wrote:
jay's bourgeoisie bosses let him keep an above average amount of his labor value compared to the other proletariat. clearly the system works. he is truly free from the class struggle.uziq wrote:
textbook false consciousness.
If it means corporation tax can be cut its a good thing, if food and childrens clothes are zero rated it affect the poor not at all.Jay wrote:
I don't see how a VAT is helpful. It's a regressive tax whose burden falls most heavily on the poor. Most states have a sales tax, in New York it is 8.875% on every purchase, with higher excise taxes on vice items. Sales taxes in general are terrible because they discourage commerce and suck productive money out of the economy with every transaction.
The military is a workfare program, its a shame it has no useful or productive output. The likelihood of it being cut is about nil though.As for the rest, it's what I've been saying since Day One here. When I said we needed to cut our military spending and work towards balancing our budget you called me a workfarist who was trying to keep poor people down.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2016-05-31 02:32:04)
Last edited by uziq (2016-06-01 02:01:34)
I'll make a recommendation that dovetails nicely with this - Voltaire's Bastards by John Ralston Saul. It's a critique of scientific management and the consequences of reason without conscience as applied within the American economy and government. It was written in the early 90's and is slightly dated, but still worth a read.Dilbert_X wrote:
If it means corporation tax can be cut its a good thing, if food and childrens clothes are zero rated it affect the poor not at all.Jay wrote:
I don't see how a VAT is helpful. It's a regressive tax whose burden falls most heavily on the poor. Most states have a sales tax, in New York it is 8.875% on every purchase, with higher excise taxes on vice items. Sales taxes in general are terrible because they discourage commerce and suck productive money out of the economy with every transaction.
Transferring tax from corporations to personal discretionary spending boosts inwards investment, crimps imports and boosts jobs.
If nothing else US companies need to be on a level playing field with the rest of the world. A similar corporation tax would mean there would be no need for them to offshore their profits. 30% of something is better than 40% of nothing.
All tax "sucks money out of the economy". It doesn't really matter where it is, Peoples spending power stays about the same.The military is a workfare program, its a shame it has no useful or productive output. The likelihood of it being cut is about nil though.As for the rest, it's what I've been saying since Day One here. When I said we needed to cut our military spending and work towards balancing our budget you called me a workfarist who was trying to keep poor people down.
Thanks, I'll check it out.Jay wrote:
TI'll make a recommendation that dovetails nicely with this - Voltaire's Bastards by John Ralston Saul. It's a critique of scientific management and the consequences of reason without conscience as applied within the American economy and government. It was written in the early 90's and is slightly dated, but still worth a read.
