BF2S Forums BF3s Book Club

Jay wrote:

How is that even relevant? Weren't you a history major? Shouldn't an understanding of the founding principles of the American public education system have been part of your curriculum?

Try "Anti-intellectualism in America" for a good primer. 5 stars

You brought up graduate education. I was curious if you had a background in it. You don't.

What history classes did you take?

I also have a fair amount of friends who are teachers.  Maybe my friends are different because they all hold second and third degrees in higher education, but ALL OF THEM are involved in dictating curriculum.  My good friend's little sister is in charge of teaching teachers how to teach.  Hint: It's going away from "here is WHAT you learn" and moving toward "here is HOW you learn".  She's 4 years out of grad school, and 1 year removed from the classroom.

Like I said, maybe my experience is different because my friends aren't lowly teachers who are looking for a paycheck and instead are actively interested in their fields and using their higher degrees for a purpose other than simply getting that money.  And this is in LA Unified/Orange County school districts, which aren't exactly seen as the most progressive districts in the country.

Anyway, I said before the publisher of a porn star's book got in touch with me on reddit since I run her sub with 12,000 subscribers. We are doing a giveaway contest for her book and in return each mod gets a signed advanced reader copy.

It will be my third signed book. The first book is by a New York Times columnist and academic and the second by an internationally recognized public intellectual. The third will be from a hooker.

What signed books do you have?

I added you to LinkedIn. I am into advertising, publishing, and pornography now too apparently.

Made in the USA - The Rise and Retreat of American Manufacturing - Vaclav Smil

Its taken me a while, there is a lot of data and many references in this thing.

Anyone who believes a western economy can survive without the solid underpinning of value addition that manufacturing provides and the imports it offsets, and rely on Ayn Rand and Adam Smith anecdotes instead to build a future should read this book.

It also explains the problems America, and by extension other economies, is going through now, and what is likely to happen over the next 15-30 years based on the current trajectory.

Its not a great work of prose, I doubt it was intended to be.

I would think the context is that the rise was spontaneous, natural, organic, the retreat was a conscious - and foolish - decision.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its not a great work of prose, I doubt it was intended to be.

I would think the context is that the rise was spontaneous, natural, organic, the retreat was a conscious - and foolish - decision.

There are a lot of factors that went into driving manufacturing overseas: the rise of the MBA and scientific management that led to efforts in minimizing labor costs, the advent of the shipping container and thus economies of scale in shipping, and the environmental movement whose mission was to remove every smokestack from the horizon and punish polluters. I wouldn't say that it was a conscious decision to push everything to China, there were a lot of factors that went into the decision.

And globalization has lifted millions of people out of poverty while making people in the developed world comparatively less wealthy. That's ok. Stop being such a nationalist.

uziq wrote:

you'd feel differently about it if you lived in flint, michigan and didn't have giant socialised workfare schemes to remunerate and educate you.

commie

So we should keep the factories open just because people live there? That's stupid and you know it. Their parents and grandparents moved to the city because they heard there was work there. They can do the same and move to where the work is instead of whining incessantly about "they took ur jerbs". The people who live in the Rust Belt did themselves in. The union employees wanted to work as little as possible while making the most money they could (completely rational, but self defeating).

When the US was the only major manufacturer after the war, they could get away with it. After the Japanese entered the market, they couldn't and the companies eventually went bankrupt. Any idiot in the third world can follow a robot around all day and produce a basic commodity car. If you're charging a premium for your labor like the unionized line workers were, you better be adding value to the product with your superior skills, and they neither possessed those those skills not added anything to the product except cost. The only way any manufacturer in the developed world can compete is if they producing non-commodities, and American cars were as shoddy as any commoditized item.

Where the developed world has an edge is in artisan industries that require high skill levels, and thus cost more. This is where a country like Germany shines. I will, and have, happily paid three times as much for a pair of Made in Germany Knipex pliers instead of the shitty Chinese manufactured Stanley stuff. I've bought saws and planes made in Sheffield, because it's quality. I have Made in America Klein screwdrivers because they're amazing. When I bought a pair of Doc Martens a few years ago I even paid the $25 extra for the Made in England version. My kitchen knives were made in Japan from Swedish steel. Better quality.

Most people don't have the luxury or the desire to care about quality though. They'd rather buy the cheapest item possible, which is fine if you're poor, but sad if you're not. But a lot of people do. They're the ones that read reviews on everything before they make a purchase. They're the ones that are willing to spend a little more for a durable item. Those are the people that can be catered to by home industry. Mass production will always devolve to the lowest labor bidder.

Last edited by Jay (2016-05-30 10:51:47)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Only the wealthiest should work as little as possible and make the most. Peons wanting the same thing is unconscionable. Getting outsourced serves them right. Right?

Nope. Never said that. But when you have only a high school education and no skills you shouldn't expect a cushy life. In the eyes of an MBA you're just a commodity and are interchangeable with a few billion other people on this planet. Learn a skill or a trade and actually put effort into it and that goes away. I'm not saying you'll become rich as a chef or an artisan chair maker or whatever, but you also won't just be a disposable cog.

Basically, what I'm saying is that no, or low, skill workers will always be the big loser wherever scientific management principles are applied. Multinationals are all run by MBA's, so they're out there maximizing profits. It's like getting mad at water for being wet.

uziq wrote:

except water being wet is essential and irreducible and the MBA mindset is inherently ideological and malleable and open to revision

It's a bastardization of the scientific method. Everything is reduced to charts and graphs as if it were a hard science. It's rationality without conscience, applied to the real world. When it's been applied by governments we've generated Stalins and Pol Pots.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

it is the end result of capitalism. the commoditization of human labor leads to exploitation of workers. if only the workers weren't alienated from their work and could reap the benefits of their labor.

It's been the result every time marxism has been deployed, not capitalism.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

it is the end result of capitalism. the commoditization of human labor leads to exploitation of workers. if only the workers weren't alienated from their work and could reap the benefits of their labor.

It's been the result every time marxism has been deployed, not capitalism.

full communism has never been tried. the soviet union was state capitalist. ownership of the means of production by the state is the final stage of capitalism.

Ok