There's a reason why countries that have legalized assisted suicide all patients have to go through a lot of psych evaluation and actually suffer a serious illness instead of treatable psych illness'.Jay wrote:
I never said suicide is rational. Some people are just miserable. If someone is in such a shitty place that they want to end it, preventing them from doing so is a form of torture.
I want you to have a loved one consider, or attempt, suicide so you can tell them, "yep, go ahead, its your choice". It'll take all of 1 second for you to do a 180 on your words here.Jay wrote:
I never said suicide is rational. Some people are just miserable. If someone is in such a shitty place that they want to end it, preventing them from doing so is a form of torture.
And how many times have you and your cousins had to use them on invading redcoats, a tyrannical govt or rampaging hordes of zombies? I bet its none.MajorSpittle wrote:
Everyone in my family has guns. Parents, cousins, grandparents, great grandparents, uncles, aunts, brother, sister..... literally everyone I am related to. On my block I know that EVERY SINGLE HOUSE has guns in them.
That's not really the problem, its the other person having a gun which is the problem, you or me having a gun doesn't actually make us or our children bulletproof.If you don't want a gun don't get one.
Because quoting gun crime rates make you angry? Angry that you're ignorant?There are laws against murder. Look a murder and crime rate, who cares about if it was committed by gun, knife, bat, car, plane, hands, or toaster. People quoting gun crime rates are idiots that shouldn't vote.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2016-01-07 01:07:16)
I'm not saying people should be pushed towards suicide or that attempts shouldn't be made to change their mind. Suicide is tragic and fucks up a lot of people. I'm simply arguing two points: 1) who has more rights in the end, the person attempting suicide or the grief stricken family? If you're advocating for gun control because of suicide you're saying that the potential emotional pain experienced by the family is more important than that of the individual who is suffering. I disagree. 2) if someone does end up on that path and they do want to end it, a gun is normally the least painful way to go. Hanging oneself or jumping from a building take time and possible pain. Preventing them from using a gun (as if that were actually possible) ensures that their last moments on earth will possibly be more painful than necessary.pirana6 wrote:
I want you to have a loved one consider, or attempt, suicide so you can tell them, "yep, go ahead, its your choice". It'll take all of 1 second for you to do a 180 on your words here.Jay wrote:
I never said suicide is rational. Some people are just miserable. If someone is in such a shitty place that they want to end it, preventing them from doing so is a form of torture.
If youre considering suicide as a choice, you're not right upstairs and need help to be not that way. That's non negotiable. "Meh, go ahead just don't bother anybody else" is the worst way of looking at it.
So why do you think that guns make people kill and why hasn't it worked on me or my family yet? How can I protect myself from the guns making me kill and are certain guns more likely to make me commit suicide and perhaps another kind make me shoot someone during an argument.Dilbert_X wrote:
And how many times have you and your cousins had to use them on invading redcoats, a tyrannical govt or rampaging hordes of zombies? I bet its none.MajorSpittle wrote:
Everyone in my family has guns. Parents, cousins, grandparents, great grandparents, uncles, aunts, brother, sister..... literally everyone I am related to. On my block I know that EVERY SINGLE HOUSE has guns in them.That's not really the problem, its the other person having a gun which is the problem, you or me having a gun doesn't actually make us or our children bulletproof.If you don't want a gun don't get one.Because quoting gun crime rates make you angry? Angry that you're ignorant?There are laws against murder. Look a murder and crime rate, who cares about if it was committed by gun, knife, bat, car, plane, hands, or toaster. People quoting gun crime rates are idiots that shouldn't vote.
Excluding the use of guns America has nearly double the murder rate of comparable countries.
Including the use of guns America has nearly five times the murder rate of comparable countries. Are Americans just that angry and prone to murder? Would it be this high if guns were taken out of the equation?
Last edited by MajorSpittle (2016-01-07 07:52:20)
MajorSpittle wrote:
So why do you think that guns make people kill and why hasn't it worked on me or my family yet? How can I protect myself from the guns making me kill and are certain guns more likely to make me commit suicide and perhaps another kind make me shoot someone during an argument.Dilbert_X wrote:
And how many times have you and your cousins had to use them on invading redcoats, a tyrannical govt or rampaging hordes of zombies? I bet its none.MajorSpittle wrote:
Everyone in my family has guns. Parents, cousins, grandparents, great grandparents, uncles, aunts, brother, sister..... literally everyone I am related to. On my block I know that EVERY SINGLE HOUSE has guns in them.That's not really the problem, its the other person having a gun which is the problem, you or me having a gun doesn't actually make us or our children bulletproof.If you don't want a gun don't get one.Because quoting gun crime rates make you angry? Angry that you're ignorant?There are laws against murder. Look a murder and crime rate, who cares about if it was committed by gun, knife, bat, car, plane, hands, or toaster. People quoting gun crime rates are idiots that shouldn't vote.
Excluding the use of guns America has nearly double the murder rate of comparable countries.
Including the use of guns America has nearly five times the murder rate of comparable countries. Are Americans just that angry and prone to murder? Would it be this high if guns were taken out of the equation?
Do you have any graphs for that? If you do please share because I need educated by you about guns.
I never realized the danger I am in and put others in.
Facts: http://americangunfacts.com/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … violent-c/The meme said "there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the U.K.," compared to "466 violent crimes per 100,000" in the United States. Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison. We rate the claim False.
Who is advocating for gun control "because of suicide"? You're arguing against a position you've made up yourself.Jay wrote:
I'm not saying people should be pushed towards suicide or that attempts shouldn't be made to change their mind. Suicide is tragic and fucks up a lot of people. I'm simply arguing two points: 1) who has more rights in the end, the person attempting suicide or the grief stricken family? If you're advocating for gun control because of suicide you're saying that the potential emotional pain experienced by the family is more important than that of the individual who is suffering. I disagree. 2) if someone does end up on that path and they do want to end it, a gun is normally the least painful way to go. Hanging oneself or jumping from a building take time and possible pain. Preventing them from using a gun (as if that were actually possible) ensures that their last moments on earth will possibly be more painful than necessary.pirana6 wrote:
I want you to have a loved one consider, or attempt, suicide so you can tell them, "yep, go ahead, its your choice". It'll take all of 1 second for you to do a 180 on your words here.Jay wrote:
I never said suicide is rational. Some people are just miserable. If someone is in such a shitty place that they want to end it, preventing them from doing so is a form of torture.
If youre considering suicide as a choice, you're not right upstairs and need help to be not that way. That's non negotiable. "Meh, go ahead just don't bother anybody else" is the worst way of looking at it.
My callous "don't bother anyone else" is a consequence of living in one of the most densely populated on the planet. A little asshole selfishness can fuck up a lot of people's day here.
You do understand what statistics are, right? If you have a gun in your home, there is a higher probability that you will be involved in an assault, unintentional shooting accident or suicide than stopping an intruder or carrying out a legally justifiable homicide. Higher probability means that it is more likely to happen. More likely to happen means that it doesn't happen to everyone all the time. That's why guns haven't killed your family (yet).MajorSpittle wrote:
So why do you think that guns make people kill and why hasn't it worked on me or my family yet? How can I protect myself from the guns making me kill and are certain guns more likely to make me commit suicide and perhaps another kind make me shoot someone during an argument.Dilbert_X wrote:
And how many times have you and your cousins had to use them on invading redcoats, a tyrannical govt or rampaging hordes of zombies? I bet its none.MajorSpittle wrote:
Everyone in my family has guns. Parents, cousins, grandparents, great grandparents, uncles, aunts, brother, sister..... literally everyone I am related to. On my block I know that EVERY SINGLE HOUSE has guns in them.That's not really the problem, its the other person having a gun which is the problem, you or me having a gun doesn't actually make us or our children bulletproof.If you don't want a gun don't get one.Because quoting gun crime rates make you angry? Angry that you're ignorant?There are laws against murder. Look a murder and crime rate, who cares about if it was committed by gun, knife, bat, car, plane, hands, or toaster. People quoting gun crime rates are idiots that shouldn't vote.
Excluding the use of guns America has nearly double the murder rate of comparable countries.
Including the use of guns America has nearly five times the murder rate of comparable countries. Are Americans just that angry and prone to murder? Would it be this high if guns were taken out of the equation?
Do you have any graphs for that? If you do please share because I need educated by you about guns.
I never realized the danger I am in and put others in.
Facts: http://americangunfacts.com/
It goes back to my point that suicides should not be included in gun deaths stats when discussing gun control issues.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Who is advocating for gun control "because of suicide"? You're arguing against a position you've made up yourself.Jay wrote:
I'm not saying people should be pushed towards suicide or that attempts shouldn't be made to change their mind. Suicide is tragic and fucks up a lot of people. I'm simply arguing two points: 1) who has more rights in the end, the person attempting suicide or the grief stricken family? If you're advocating for gun control because of suicide you're saying that the potential emotional pain experienced by the family is more important than that of the individual who is suffering. I disagree. 2) if someone does end up on that path and they do want to end it, a gun is normally the least painful way to go. Hanging oneself or jumping from a building take time and possible pain. Preventing them from using a gun (as if that were actually possible) ensures that their last moments on earth will possibly be more painful than necessary.pirana6 wrote:
I want you to have a loved one consider, or attempt, suicide so you can tell them, "yep, go ahead, its your choice". It'll take all of 1 second for you to do a 180 on your words here.
If youre considering suicide as a choice, you're not right upstairs and need help to be not that way. That's non negotiable. "Meh, go ahead just don't bother anybody else" is the worst way of looking at it.
My callous "don't bother anyone else" is a consequence of living in one of the most densely populated on the planet. A little asshole selfishness can fuck up a lot of people's day here.
How do you know what the least painful way to go is? WTF kind of analysis is that?
This is one of the stupidest posts I've read on this forum.
First fact not in fact a fact...MajorSpittle wrote:
But there's clear evidence that mental health plays a factor in gun violence, including suicide. That's clearly evident by the higher rate of gun use in suicide (despite your little analysis, taking opiates is the least painful way die, other than maybe complete and almost spontaneous pulverization).Jay wrote:
It goes back to my point that suicides should not be included in gun deaths stats when discussing gun control issues.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Who is advocating for gun control "because of suicide"? You're arguing against a position you've made up yourself.Jay wrote:
I'm not saying people should be pushed towards suicide or that attempts shouldn't be made to change their mind. Suicide is tragic and fucks up a lot of people. I'm simply arguing two points: 1) who has more rights in the end, the person attempting suicide or the grief stricken family? If you're advocating for gun control because of suicide you're saying that the potential emotional pain experienced by the family is more important than that of the individual who is suffering. I disagree. 2) if someone does end up on that path and they do want to end it, a gun is normally the least painful way to go. Hanging oneself or jumping from a building take time and possible pain. Preventing them from using a gun (as if that were actually possible) ensures that their last moments on earth will possibly be more painful than necessary.
My callous "don't bother anyone else" is a consequence of living in one of the most densely populated on the planet. A little asshole selfishness can fuck up a lot of people's day here.
How do you know what the least painful way to go is? WTF kind of analysis is that?
This is one of the stupidest posts I've read on this forum.
I've been there with the gun in my hand before. I just couldn't stand the thought of hurting my friends and family by going out like that. That's what changed my mind. I'll tell you that the next day I felt like the Raymond in Fight Club. My rice crispies tasted amazing.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
And i'm not sure if you've ever thought about this, but your very cold hearted view on suicide is probably the most inhumane thing I've read from you.
Jay wrote:
I have more respect for the bums I see every day out in the freezing cold with a cardboard sign than I do for any person who has committed suicide (aside from those who were experiencing constant physical pain). At least they don't give up no matter how many times they've been kicked in the teeth by life. It takes courage to keep going.
So it's preferable to be shot and murdered then punched in the face? That's basically what you're saying.MajorSpittle wrote:
UK still has more violent crime when using same method.
yeah he's going to have to substantiate that ''more violent crime" statistic. violent crime includes common assault and affray, i.e. shouting in a way that intimidates someone. it's not all stabbings and s.18 grievous bodily harm. I'd rather live in a country that doesn't have a mass shooting everyday, thanks. I have never felt threatened for my life or worried much about someone pulling a weapon on me in my day-to-day life in England. it's not like bar brawls or street disagreements can escalate over here.DrunkFace wrote:
So it's preferable to be shot and murdered then punched in the face? That's basically what you're saying.MajorSpittle wrote:
UK still has more violent crime when using same method.
Its annoying when people are selfish assholes isn't it Jay? Does tend to mess up your day doesn't it?Jay wrote:
My callous "don't bother anyone else" is a consequence of living in one of the most densely populated on the planet. A little asshole selfishness can fuck up a lot of people's day here.
Probability.MajorSpittle wrote:
So why do you think that guns make people kill and why hasn't it worked on me or my family yet? How can I protect myself from the guns making me kill and are certain guns more likely to make me commit suicide and perhaps another kind make me shoot someone during an argument.
Here you go.Do you have any graphs for that? If you do please share because I need educated by you about guns.
If I'd had a gun at the time I wouldn't be here now - THINK HOW AWFUL THAT WOULD BEJay wrote:
I've been there with the gun in my hand before. I just couldn't stand the thought of hurting my friends and family by going out like that. That's what changed my mind. I'll tell you that the next day I felt like the Raymond in Fight Club. My rice crispies tasted amazing.
It does take courage, some people take more knocks than they can take. Mental pain or illness is usually the trigger, not physical.I have more respect for the bums I see every day out in the freezing cold with a cardboard sign than I do for any person who has committed suicide (aside from those who were experiencing constant physical pain). At least they don't give up no matter how many times they've been kicked in the teeth by life. It takes courage to keep going.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2016-01-08 04:38:46)
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mis … s-n503601?A gun-store owner and his son were killed in a shootout with two customers after an argument over a $25 firearm repair fee, police told NBC station WDSU.
The patrons were also taken to hospital with serious injuries following Saturday's incident at the store near Picayune, Mississippi, which is 130 miles south of Jackson.
The customers, who are also a father and son, had visited the store to collect a firearm that had been dropped off for repair. They became irate after being told it was not ready and there would be a $25 service charge, the Pearl River County Sheriff's Office told WDSU.
The argument descended into a shootout, resulting in the owner and his son dying from "multiple gunshot wounds" and the customers being transferred to intensive care, Sun Herald newspaper reported.
There certainly are a lot of paranoid people with guns.Good Samaritan killed in NC trying to help motorist stuck in snowstorm
A Good Samaritan was shot and killed in North Carolina when he tried to help a motorist stranded as a massive snowstorm pummeled the East Coast, it was reported Saturday.
Marvin Jacob Lee’s car spun out on an icy, snow-covered road in Bandys around 5:20 p.m. Friday, Catawba County Sheriff Roy Reid told the Charlotte Observer.
Reid identified the victim as Jefferson Heavner, 26, of Newton, N.C.
Heavner was in a passing truck and stopped when he saw Lee, of Claremont, N.C., needed help.
The situation took a dramatic turn when Lee allegedly became belligerent toward Heavner and several neighbors who came out of nearby homes.
“They thought he was drunk and said, ‘let’s just call the law and let them deal with it,’” Reid said.
At that point, Lee allegedly took out a gun and opened fire, the Observer reported.
Heavner was felled by a bullet and then shot “numerous times” as Lee stood over him, Reid told the paper.
Lee returned to his car after the shooting and refused to surrender to deputies. They called in a SWAT team with an armored vehicle.
“They saw he was passed out,” Reid told the paper.
Reid said the SWAT team yanked Lee out of the car and placed him in custody.
He was being held at the Catawba County Jail on a murder charge.
