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2011-07-09 00:16:30
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5701|Ventura, California
I was talking about gameplay features to include in BF3, or any game really, that would increase the will to cooperate and fight for the objective.

On that thought, do any of you think games need anything changed to help promote teamwork? And if yes, what would that be?

I was thinking of a new stat tracking system. It would only track your wins, losses, objective attacks, objective defenses, objective captures, and objectives destroyed, and so on and so forth depending on gameplay modes, which brings me to another point. The modes themselves! What if there was a removal of all kill/death based games and just having games like domination, king of the hill, capture the flag, conquest, rush, search and destroy, and any other teamplay oriented gameplay mode.

Also, removing killstreaks from games, or implementing default ones that everybody gets (like COD4 and COD5) but that help teamwork and not the player himself.

Also, the ranking system, which unlocks your new weapons, gadgets, perks, etc. would be based on your wins and teamwork points rather than kills for XP. For example, killing somebody doesn't give you any points, or maybe just 1 point, and capturing an objective gives you 20 points, whereas winning a game gives you 100. Lets say the ranks could be something like. lvl 1 = 100 points, lvl 2 = 250, lvl 3 = 500, etc.

I think this would make gaming more fun. I always find teamwork more satisfying than going on a solo killstreak.

Last edited by -Sh1fty- (2011-07-09 00:17:44)

And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2011-07-09 00:53:00
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|6970|FUCK UBISOFT

And why don't we just replace the armies with UN peacekeepers.
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
2011-07-09 01:00:44
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6380|what

Because the blue helmets are too easy to aim at.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2011-07-09 03:26:08
Aries_37
arrivederci frog
+368|6803|London
It's an FPS. If there's any stat I must care about, it will be kdr. Kills/score per minute is also useful because I like to be able to differentiate snipers from actual good players in BF games.
2011-07-09 03:37:58
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6999|PNW

Removing KDR from any sort of FPS stat tracker is ludicrous. Instead, devalue its weight when it comes to scoring team-based game modes in the game itself.
2011-07-09 09:21:12
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6912|United States of America
I find KDR (and in the case of BF2, SPM as well) to be the best indicator(s) of a player who I haven't played with a lot. Generally, the incentive to win in BF2 is that the enemy is usually around the control points as well, so you know where to go to kill them. Also, a lot of people are idiots. The Battlefield series has always been rather poorly focused on teamwork since its inception, as evidenced by the willingness of players to TK over who gets to fly a jet or use armor. If your teammates weren't so focused on trying to undermine each other, perhaps the team would actually be effective in combat.

Hell, the thing that required the most teamwork in Battlefield games was indirect-fire artillery (which I loved), but they took that out before BF2 because, as previously stated, people are idiots. I really liked commanding as well (when I played this game actually), but the prevailing norm for commanders is to sit in base and watch out for people blowing up your stuff so you're essentially out of action. Instead of providing some additional firepower for the team, you're calling out enemies that aren't a threat to anyone out of sheer boredom.
2011-07-09 11:37:06
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6728|so randum
i wouldn't say no to taking deaths off from the in-game scoresheet. keep it tracked via api or w/e, but it might make people think less about their deaths.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2011-07-09 12:07:50
Blade4509
Wrench turnin' fool
+202|5736|America
I agree with Teds, anyone can be an amazing medic, for example, and not kill a single person as long as he trys to keep the whole team alive, a low K/Dis fine.
"Raise the flag high! Let the degenerates know who comes to claim their lives this day!"
2011-07-09 12:08:35
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7007|Great Brown North
how about no
2011-07-09 12:09:53
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6965|Oxferd Ohire
remove lap times in racing games
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
2011-07-09 12:15:22
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6696
I agree with -Sh1fty-, if your deaths are tracked, then it makes people want to less do things that would increase the chances of dying. Look at BC2, it tracks your deaths and too many people are so afraid of dying and ruining their precious stat that they sit back sniping and not doing anything to advance their objectives. The opposite of this is TF2, which doesn't track how many times you've died. And in that almost everyone is willing to push for objectives, and people see dying as part of the game. People are more than happy to play medic, even though they'll probably die allot more than they are killed.
2011-07-09 12:15:59
Roc18
`
+655|6018|PROLLLY PROLLLY PROLLLY
Team W/L means even less than K/D in my opinion. It's so easy to be on a shitty team where you're the best player in the server capturing objectives, getting alot of kills, supporting teammates but you still lose.

And vice versa, its easy to be on a stacked team where you barely need to do anything and you still win.

Last edited by Roc18 (2011-07-09 12:16:34)

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2011-07-09 12:31:39
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6912|United States of America

Roc18 wrote:

Team W/L means even less than K/D in my opinion. It's so easy to be on a shitty team where you're the best player in the server capturing objectives, getting alot of kills, supporting teammates but you still lose.

And vice versa, its easy to be on a stacked team where you barely need to do anything and you still win.
This, too.
People who aren't good players already camp and use other tactics to try and kill you (though strangely, many people have no qualms about jihad-jeeping and killing themselves). My main motivation for not dying is that I have to mosey over to where the fighting is again. I find campers are pretty close to a 1.0 K/D since they may ambush someone, but then stay in the same spot until they get killed and repeat the process.

Now TF2 is a game that definitely requires more teamwork to have a successful round (with the exception of arena) than games like Battlefield. You're pretty much completely reliant on your teammates to protect you if you're a medic in there, for example. Coordinated pushes are super effective when the whole team works together, but one man can have a much bigger effect in BF2. The one situation I can think of that requires some actual teamwork in BF2 is getting a foothold on a full server playing Iron Gator as MECSF.
2011-07-09 13:14:17
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6999|PNW

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

I agree with -Sh1fty-, if your deaths are tracked, then it makes people want to less do things that would increase the chances of dying. Look at BC2, it tracks your deaths and too many people are so afraid of dying and ruining their precious stat that they sit back sniping and not doing anything to advance their objectives. The opposite of this is TF2, which doesn't track how many times you've died. And in that almost everyone is willing to push for objectives, and people see dying as part of the game. People are more than happy to play medic, even though they'll probably die allot more than they are killed.
But TF2 is capture the flag. Battlefield is, well, Battlefield. There are plenty of ways to be effective in Battlefield without being forced to hut-hut-hut your way to objectives all the time. If a large enough portion of your team is already taking care of that, you're free to harass other points of interest. TBH, I prefer it that way. For example, running off on your own to snipe enemy pilots was annoying for the other team, but invaluable for your own if you succeeded in delaying their air power for any length of time.
2011-07-09 13:18:01
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6728|so randum

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

I agree with -Sh1fty-, if your deaths are tracked, then it makes people want to less do things that would increase the chances of dying. Look at BC2, it tracks your deaths and too many people are so afraid of dying and ruining their precious stat that they sit back sniping and not doing anything to advance their objectives. The opposite of this is TF2, which doesn't track how many times you've died. And in that almost everyone is willing to push for objectives, and people see dying as part of the game. People are more than happy to play medic, even though they'll probably die allot more than they are killed.
But TF2 is capture the flag. Battlefield is, well, Battlefield. There are plenty of ways to be effective in Battlefield without being forced to hut-hut-hut your way to objectives all the time. If a large enough portion of your team is already taking care of that, you're free to harass other points of interest. TBH, I prefer it that way. For example, running off on your own to snipe enemy pilots was annoying for the other team, but invaluable for your own if you succeeded in delaying their air power for any length of time.
one game mode in TF2 is CTF, not the entire game. and i'd much rather another medic/AT on my team in any situation, than someone with an m95 on a hill who might keep a jet down or might just be totally useless.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2011-07-09 13:35:58
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6999|PNW

So you get cart maps as well, but if anything those are even more focused on killing people so you can advance or prevent advancement. How about just ignoring death stats if you think those are unimportant?
2011-07-09 13:38:48
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6696

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

I agree with -Sh1fty-, if your deaths are tracked, then it makes people want to less do things that would increase the chances of dying. Look at BC2, it tracks your deaths and too many people are so afraid of dying and ruining their precious stat that they sit back sniping and not doing anything to advance their objectives. The opposite of this is TF2, which doesn't track how many times you've died. And in that almost everyone is willing to push for objectives, and people see dying as part of the game. People are more than happy to play medic, even though they'll probably die allot more than they are killed.
But TF2 is capture the flag. Battlefield is, well, Battlefield. There are plenty of ways to be effective in Battlefield without being forced to hut-hut-hut your way to objectives all the time. If a large enough portion of your team is already taking care of that, you're free to harass other points of interest. TBH, I prefer it that way. For example, running off on your own to snipe enemy pilots was annoying for the other team, but invaluable for your own if you succeeded in delaying their air power for any length of time.
Well that's a flaw in Battlefield's game mode. Tickets give players an excuse to be useless, because they can always just fall back on the "costing less tickets" argument. And "harass other points of interest" why do you need to be far away from the objective to do that? If there's an enemy on a machine gun then a grenade or rocket launcher is going to be more effective at killing him than a sniper rifle, and the grenade/rocket launcher isn't even going to be the guy's primary gun.

And even then, in Battlefield the class with the sniper gun usually has C4 as well, which is extremely useful if the player is up with his team and near the enemy, but completely useless if he is far removed, padding his K/D by trying not to get killed.
2011-07-09 13:52:34
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6999|PNW

What? Aim the sniper rifle at the guy on the MG and fire. How is that more complicated than throwing/shooting a grenade or shooting a rocket?

I don't see how that's a flaw in Battlefield's game mode that people are allowed to approach the game from different angles. It even punishes a team full of snipers just as much as TF2 does. If it irks you, why not play games with just one class like Quake 3?
2011-07-09 13:54:31
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6728|so randum
what dsl was getting at was snipers/recons have their place running around with a squad, and they can be useful there. but by showing deaths it makes them want to sit in trees/windows/on a hill and generally kill a game.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2011-07-09 13:59:17
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6999|PNW

Ah. People concerned about death stats will probably hide out no matter what class they are. I've seen support guys take even less risks than snipers. I really don't think it's a huge problem at all. But even if no stats were recorded whatsoever (for anything), there are still going to be people on a team game who aren't being useful.
2011-07-09 14:12:32
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6696
If someone wants to be useless, they will. But removing a death tracker will give them less of a reason to be useless. In a team focused game, you need to make players want to play for the team, not play for themselves.

And snipers are the largest problem because sniper guns are more effective the farther they are from enemies. You are not only allowing but rewarding players for taking a very passive, low risk and anti-social play-style. You can camp from far away with other weapons, but it is no where near as effective than the sniper kit. Sniper weapons also have numerous other design problems, but that's not the point of this thread.
2011-07-09 17:24:05
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5701|Ventura, California
Since recon isn't completely a sniper class, I would like to see more DMR rifles like M14s. I'd like weapons to be unique to each faction, but with a select few available to every class and faction.

How about this guys. Remove kill/death from the TAB score screen but track them overall in a menu like the BFHQ on BF2 and BF2142.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2011-07-09 17:25:07
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6937|England. Stoke

-Sh1fty- wrote:

more M14s.
2011-07-09 17:52:34
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5701|Ventura, California
Well, they don't have to be M14s. Can you think of some other DMRs Coke? Cause I want DMR rifles that are between assault rifles and sniper rifles for the recon class. Can you come up with something better or are you going to be an arse? Lets try to avoid the hostilities here and be constructive mkay?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2011-07-09 17:59:16
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|5264|Massachusetts, USA
So the SVU and T88 apparently can't be used as DMRs in BC2 according to shifty.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.

 

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