FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6628|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:


The amount of contradictions from Genesis alone is scary.

eg:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/contra_list.html
The amount of contradictions in our daily lives is scary. BFD.
What the hell does that mean?
It means life is full of contradictions and one has to sort them out as part of life.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6370|what

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:


The amount of contradictions in our daily lives is scary. BFD.
What the hell does that mean?
It means life is full of contradictions and one has to sort them out as part of life.
Name one.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
13rin
Member
+977|6696

AussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


What the hell does that mean?
It means life is full of contradictions and one has to sort them out as part of life.
Name one.
I guess one could be when it is ok to lie.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6370|what

DBBrinson1 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

FEOS wrote:


It means life is full of contradictions and one has to sort them out as part of life.
Name one.
I guess one could be when it is ok to lie.
That isn't a contradiction.

A contradiction is something like "If God is omnipotent could He create a rock so heavy that even he himself could not lift it?"

No matter how you answer, God becomes a non-omnipotent entity.

If he can create such a rock, he cannot lift it. And his power is limited.

If he cannot create it, he is again limited in power.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6323|eXtreme to the maX
Why would God choose to inflict horrible and incurable diseases at random, on believers and non-believers alike?
If its a test of faith why inflict them on the non-believers?
If its a punishment why inflict them on the believers?
Fuck Israel
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6216|...
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

and that from a guy who lived in 300 BCE
inane little opines
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6687

Dilbert_X wrote:

Why would God choose to inflict horrible and incurable diseases at random, on believers and non-believers alike?
If its a test of faith why inflict them on the non-believers?
If its a punishment why inflict them on the believers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
13rin
Member
+977|6696
I got in trouble back in the day when my Mom asked me what I was giving up for Lent.... I said church.  She didn't laugh.

When my Brother asked if God was everywhere and my Mom said, "Yes."  My Brother responded with, "So he's in the toilet?  Does that mean I poop on God."  Again, she didn't laugh.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6347|North Tonawanda, NY

AussieReaper wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Name one.
I guess one could be when it is ok to lie.
That isn't a contradiction.

A contradiction is something like "If God is omnipotent could He create a rock so heavy that even he himself could not lift it?"

No matter how you answer, God becomes a non-omnipotent entity.

If he can create such a rock, he cannot lift it. And his power is limited.

If he cannot create it, he is again limited in power.
...unless he creates such a stone, then lifts it anyway.  Let me know if that makes sense to you because it certainly does not make sense to me...but I have heard that response before. 
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6628|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Name one.
I guess one could be when it is ok to lie.
That isn't a contradiction.

A contradiction is something like "If God is omnipotent could He create a rock so heavy that even he himself could not lift it?"

No matter how you answer, God becomes a non-omnipotent entity.

If he can create such a rock, he cannot lift it. And his power is limited.

If he cannot create it, he is again limited in power.
Why do you assume a contradiction in life has to involve God?

Here's one: You can reject religion and live by principles found in a religious text.

Or: A good person can be driven to do something that appears evil for good purpose (killing, stealing, etc). This is clearly a contradiction (contrary to your argument above) in that the inherently negative act performed for a positive reason is no longer inherently negative. Unless you're going to argue that killing and stealing aren't universally, humanly bad acts?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5803

Those aren't contradictions at all. A contradiction would be saying ''a = 1, a = 2" A cannot be 1 and 2 at the same time. The statement contradicts itself. Life isn't "full of contradictions". I got out of bed this morning, I didn't ''get out of bed and not get out of bed''. I ate breakfast, I didn't "eat breakfast and not eat breakfast".

Aside from not being a contradiction the "You can reject religion and live by principles found in a religious text." doesn't make really make sense. To be perfectly honest it's a really stupid statement if you think about. The statement supposes that religious and  nonreligious philosophical views, as well as laws are competently incompatible with one and another. For example I reject Christianity, the customs, rules, notions etc. but still abide by something like "do not kill" since not killing someone would be part of honoring the most basic principle of the social contract. ie. I reject Christianity, but I embrace the notion of the social contract, the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes, and the laws of the U.S.

As for the whole "doing evil to do good" thing, if you want to debate moral absolutism vs moral relativity vs moral nihilism then fine by me but you can't use a an argument for moral relativity in a debate regarding metaphysics. 

So since those last two statements don't make any sense and don't prove your point tell me how is our lives full of contradictions?

Also don't cut up my post and type out a response line by line and branch the discussion twenty different ways like you usually do. I'll just ignore it.

Last edited by Macbeth (2011-03-01 19:36:28)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6992|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

Here's one: You can reject religion and live by principles found in a religious text.
find me a principle only found in your religious text of choice - hell, try fingding something in it that wasn't around before it was written.

Last edited by Shahter (2011-03-01 23:05:04)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

SenorToenails wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

I guess one could be when it is ok to lie.
That isn't a contradiction.

A contradiction is something like "If God is omnipotent could He create a rock so heavy that even he himself could not lift it?"

No matter how you answer, God becomes a non-omnipotent entity.

If he can create such a rock, he cannot lift it. And his power is limited.

If he cannot create it, he is again limited in power.
...unless he creates such a stone, then lifts it anyway.  Let me know if that makes sense to you because it certainly does not make sense to me...but I have heard that response before. 
It appears you are forming sort of an irresistible force paradox. The popular response for unaswered questions is "God works in mysterious ways".
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6992|Moscow, Russia

Kmar wrote:

It appears you are forming sort of an irresistible force paradox. The popular response for unaswered questions is "God works in mysterious ways".
you can justify anything using that "popular response". holocaust, plague, earthquakes - anything and everything is done by the loving god. halle-fucking-luia.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

It appears you are forming sort of an irresistible force paradox. The popular response for unaswered questions is "God works in mysterious ways".
you can justify anything using that "popular response". holocaust, plague, earthquakes - anything and everything is done by the loving god. halle-fucking-luia.
Right, I think 90% of this forum gets that.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6992|Moscow, Russia

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

It appears you are forming sort of an irresistible force paradox. The popular response for unaswered questions is "God works in mysterious ways".
you can justify anything using that "popular response". holocaust, plague, earthquakes - anything and everything is done by the loving god. halle-fucking-luia.
Right, I think 90% of this forum gets that.
then what did you mention that "popular response"-thing for? i think 90% of this forum knows what response one usually gets from religious loonies when they are cornered by logic and reason.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

you can justify anything using that "popular response". holocaust, plague, earthquakes - anything and everything is done by the loving god. halle-fucking-luia.
Right, I think 90% of this forum gets that.
then what did you mention that "popular response"-thing for? i think 90% of this forum knows what response one usually gets from religious loonies when they are cornered by logic and reason.
This entire series of described irrationality is probably nothing any of us haven't heard before. You mistake what I have heard people say as an endorsement. I wasn't responding to you. .. it was simply, "and oh yea there is also this..". You're misguided assumption is like a wet fart in the middle of our conversation.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6992|Moscow, Russia

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Right, I think 90% of this forum gets that.
then what did you mention that "popular response"-thing for? i think 90% of this forum knows what response one usually gets from religious loonies when they are cornered by logic and reason.
This entire series of rationality is probably nothing any of us haven't heard before. You mistake what I have heard people say as an endorsement. I wasn't responding to you. .. it was simply, "and oh yea there is also this..". You're misguided assumption is like a wet fart in the middle of our conversation.
ah, so this was a "conversation"? you swing a dead horse back and forth, each posting another "and they say that <incert a piece of religious nonsence here>" and... what exacly do you hope to get to with this? understanding? reconciliation? eternal life in heaven maybe? help me out here, sir awesome conversationalist.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

then what did you mention that "popular response"-thing for? i think 90% of this forum knows what response one usually gets from religious loonies when they are cornered by logic and reason.
This entire series of rationality is probably nothing any of us haven't heard before. You mistake what I have heard people say as an endorsement. I wasn't responding to you. .. it was simply, "and oh yea there is also this..". You're misguided assumption is like a wet fart in the middle of our conversation.
ah, so this was a "conversation"? you swing a dead horse back and forth, each posting another "and they say that <incert a piece of religious nonsence here>" and... what exacly do you hope to get to with this? understanding? reconciliation? eternal life in heaven maybe? help me out here, sir awesome conversationalist.
You were wrong and it's obvious that you're grasping at straws. So you decide to cope with it by mocking the discussion and throwing in some random bull shit rhetoric. Maybe you should be asking yourself those questions. .. and maybe, if you have no interest here beyond sharing your wrong assumptions, you should go find somewhere else to post.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6992|Moscow, Russia

Kmar wrote:

You were wrong
where exactly was i wrong? "mistook what you heard other people said as endorsement"? i did no such thing, i'm pretty sure you are not as dumb. i see no reason to mention "god knows better"... ehm... "agrgument" at all, because, apart from it being nonsencial to begin with, it adds absolutely nothing to this thing you called "conversation" - that was my point.

Last edited by Shahter (2011-03-02 00:39:16)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

There was a story here where a drunk driver hit and killed a mother and seriously hurt a little girl.
The victim, who is now 6 years old, broke both of her arms and legs and suffered a hole in her skull as well as a brain injury. She has already endured 15 surgeries and will need even more to repair her skull fracture once she's fully grown. The victim attends rehab at least 3 days a week, and recently had a skin graft on her head.
The girl's Dad has been arrested more than once for Drunk Driving since the accident. Ridiculous. The girl is being raised by her grandmother now.
The father of a young Tampa girl who nearly lost her life in a drunk driving accident has been arrest for a second DUI, this time in Texas. Summer Moll was nearly killed in a head-on accident with a drunk driver that took the life of her mother. Apparently that wasn’t enough of a lesson for her estranged father who was arrested in Tampa for DUI and now has been arrested in Texas for a DWI.
http://www.fightyourtampadui.com/2010/0 … ested-dui/
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

You were wrong
where exactly was i wrong? "mistook what you heard other people said as endorsement"? i did no such thing, i'm pretty sure you are not as dumb. i see no reason to mention "god knows better"... ehm... "agrgument" at all, because, apart from it being nonsencial to begin with, it adds absolutely nothing to this thing you called "conversation" - that was my point.
Because you felt compelled to retort with "then what did you mention that "popular response"-thing for?" I was simply adding the immenent response when said religious conundrums occur. Your response to what you think is an obvious point that adds nothing to the conversation is to dive into a with a more obvious point? .. talk about nonsensical.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6992|Moscow, Russia

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

You were wrong
where exactly was i wrong? "mistook what you heard other people said as endorsement"? i did no such thing, i'm pretty sure you are not as dumb. i see no reason to mention "god knows better"... ehm... "agrgument" at all, because, apart from it being nonsencial to begin with, it adds absolutely nothing to this thing you called "conversation" - that was my point.
Because you felt compelled to retort with "then what did you mention that "popular response"-thing for?" I was simply adding the immenent response when said religious conundrums occur. Your response to what you think is an obvious point that adds nothing to the conversation is to dive into a with a more obvious point? .. talk about nonsensical.
i "felt compelled"? re-read it again. it was as sarcastinc as i could make it. you didn't get it? - sorry, next time i'll be sure to add tags for you.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6818|132 and Bush

Shahter wrote:

you can justify anything using that "popular response". holocaust, plague, earthquakes - anything and everything is done by the loving god. halle-fucking-luia.
I sincerely hope that was not sarcastic. It's absolutely correct. .. but whatever, perhaps the tone was not conveyed.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6628|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

Those aren't contradictions at all. A contradiction would be saying ''a = 1, a = 2" A cannot be 1 and 2 at the same time. The statement contradicts itself. Life isn't "full of contradictions". I got out of bed this morning, I didn't ''get out of bed and not get out of bed''. I ate breakfast, I didn't "eat breakfast and not eat breakfast".

Aside from not being a contradiction the "You can reject religion and live by principles found in a religious text." doesn't make really make sense. To be perfectly honest it's a really stupid statement if you think about. The statement supposes that religious and  nonreligious philosophical views, as well as laws are competently incompatible with one and another. For example I reject Christianity, the customs, rules, notions etc. but still abide by something like "do not kill" since not killing someone would be part of honoring the most basic principle of the social contract. ie. I reject Christianity, but I embrace the notion of the social contract, the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes, and the laws of the U.S.

As for the whole "doing evil to do good" thing, if you want to debate moral absolutism vs moral relativity vs moral nihilism then fine by me but you can't use a an argument for moral relativity in a debate regarding metaphysics. 

So since those last two statements don't make any sense and don't prove your point tell me how is our lives full of contradictions?

Also don't cut up my post and type out a response line by line and branch the discussion twenty different ways like you usually do. I'll just ignore it.
You are defining contradiction differently than I do.

By the definition of contradiction (see www.dictionary.com), the situations I laid out were examples of contradictions in daily life. And the example that AR gave was a contradiction, as well. Just not so much a "daily life" one...

Sorry if facts aren't convenient for you. But they are what they are. Deal with it.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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