Kez
Member
+778|5919|London, UK

Jenspm wrote:

Snake wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

God I hate Red Bull, Alonso was only 2 thousandths of a second behind his pole time. I hope he does Vettel in on the first lap tomorrow
I sat there and thought "what happened if both times were exactly the same to the 1000th of a second?"...and realised I don't actually know Anybody know?
they'd probably make a new rule making sure Alonso starts second.
Who, the Ferrari International Assistance? Wouldn't dream of it
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6837|London, England
Oh yeah whatever happened to no team orders, as soon as one tries to like Ferrari they remind you why they're such douches
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6897|Disaster Free Zone
Hopefully they both get black flagged.
Zimmer
Un Moderador
+1,688|6972|Scotland

That was just ridiculously stupid.
Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|6782|England

First time Ive ever changed the channel during a race. Absolutely despicable.

Im glad I turned back over for the podium and after-race thoughts: Stefano is a flat-faced liar and joked about it, EJ was spot-on about everything he said and Massa was not happy...I was waiting for him to give an outburst: but fair play, he didnt.

Alonso was very happy with the result: Im not surprised; hes won on race-fixing before so hes experienced in this area.


If Ferrari dont get disqualified, I will be really really surprised, disappointed and disgusted in the FIA.
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6948|St. Andrews / Oslo

Tbh I'm completely against the no team orders rule, but once it's there, one really should follow it. Hilarious though, they could've at least tried to hide it?

"Alonso is faster. Alonso is faster. Understand? *cough*"

Massa lets Alonso past way too easy

"Good lad, go on now. Sorry."


Honestly, I think both Massa and his race engineer wanted us all to know what happened.
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Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6705|Gogledd Cymru

First F1 I've watched in a while as I was pretty bored, will be the last one I watch aswell, nothing happened after the first corner, apart from you know what.

Todays race has just reaffirmed my opinion on why MotoGP is a lot better, take the Fiat Yamaha team for example, Rossi's and Lorenzo's engineers don't even exchange info on the bike setups etc, they both want to win it so much, which is how it should be. I don't want to tune in to see a race where the riders race against everyone but their team mate.

I don't know how Ferrari can get away with it, especially that prick at the end that Eddie collared, wanker.

E: Jens, Massa kind of did in the press conference, it took some restraint to not blow his top and start swearing about it there lol.

Last edited by Surgeons (2010-07-25 07:25:01)

Kez
Member
+778|5919|London, UK

Kez wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Snake wrote:

I sat there and thought "what happened if both times were exactly the same to the 1000th of a second?"...and realised I don't actually know Anybody know?
they'd probably make a new rule making sure Alonso starts second.
Who, the Ferrari International Assistance? Wouldn't dream of it
fucking hell Ferrari International Assistance returns it's almost as if I was psychic

Jenspm wrote:

Honestly, I think both Massa and his race engineer wanted us all to know what happened.
Well obviously, why would Massa want to be denied a special win and also a way back into the Championship fight? If I was him I'd also make it incredibly obvious (he wasn't even on full throttle ffs it was so blatant)

Last edited by Kez (2010-07-25 07:26:55)

Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6705|Gogledd Cymru

Alonso's explanation of it was so shitty too lol, why did they even try to hide it when it was so blatant.
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6948|St. Andrews / Oslo

Ferrari bosses summoned by the stewards...
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Zimmer
Un Moderador
+1,688|6972|Scotland

Kez wrote:

Well obviously, why would Massa want to be denied a special win and also a way back into the Championship fight? If I was him I'd also make it incredibly obvious (he wasn't even on full throttle ffs it was so blatant)
I support Alonso, but what was done was just ridiculous.

Alonso was clearly faster than Massa all the way through, but if a driver can hold off another car until told by the stewards that he's blocking a faster car, then he should be able to keep his position. Nobody knows how the contracts stand with Alonso and Massa, but my guess is that it goes something like

"If Alonso or Massa have a significant lead in points over the other driver, then the lesser driver who is in front will be considered to let the driver with more points run through."

Or something like that. Stupid, nonetheless.
Kez
Member
+778|5919|London, UK
I don't agree that Alonso was clearly faster than Massa, I was following the timings and for the first stint they were even at times with both of them taking tenths out of each other every so often. Eventually both went onto Prime tyres Massa pulled out a 3 seconds gap within a matter of laps so at that stage of the Grand Prix Massa was quicker. Whether Alonso was in 'fuel saving mode' is debatable because Alonso then started reeling Massa in eventually. From the way I saw it Ferrari believe that Alonso has a better chance of winning the championship and exploited the positions their cars were in to get a more favourable result.

They got an $100,000 fine, result stands but they've also been reported to the World Motorsport Council, who are complete and utter bastards when handing out punishments. McLaren got $100million fine in 2007 and disqualification from the World Championship and also a suspended 2 race ban in 2009. I've heard that Ferrari can expect anything from a race ban or disqualification from the Constructors Championship
Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|6782|England

Kez wrote:

I don't agree that Alonso was clearly faster than Massa, I was following the timings and for the first stint they were even at times with both of them taking tenths out of each other every so often. Eventually both went onto Prime tyres Massa pulled out a 3 seconds gap within a matter of laps so at that stage of the Grand Prix Massa was quicker.

They got an $100,000 fine, result stands but they've also been reported to the World Motorsport Council, who are complete and utter bastards when handing out punishments. McLaren got $100million fine in 2007 and disqualification from the World Championship and also a suspended 2 race ban in 2009. I've heard that Ferrari can expect anything from a race ban or disqualification from the Constructors Championship
Massa was faster than Alonso for the most part, probably except for the few laps (and when Alonso closed that 3.5second lead). To be frank, it doesn't matter if Alonso is "a lot faster than Massa", he should still have to overtake him if he wants the lead: and if he is "that much quicker", it should be no problem.
It did make me wonder in the press conference, because Alonso admitted that Massa was quicker at points throughout the race, whereas at other times, Alonso was faster. Ferrari/Domenicali's arguement that Alonso was faster does not stack up.

A 100K fine is nothing for Ferrari: sell extra car this month and that is recovered easily, nevermind the championship points that they have gained. Seeing as McLaren have been assraped by the WMC, as point out, I expect Ferrari to get a massive penalty and/or fine for this.
I am surprised that the result stands though...

Zimmer wrote:

Nobody knows how the contracts stand with Alonso and Massa, but my guess is that it goes something like

"If Alonso or Massa have a significant lead in points over the other driver, then the lesser driver who is in front will be considered to let the driver with more points run through."
You see, I dont get that. That is effectively a "Team Order" which applies to both drivers. Surely the contract does not override the F1 sporting regulations...

Surely thats like me signing a contact for my job saying "if any of my fellow employees is not performing, I can kill them". Its still murder, but because its in my contract I can be excluded from the law? Um. No.
Or am I missing something?
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6948|St. Andrews / Oslo

Alonso has been clearly faster than Massa all week-end, and indeed here as well. I too was watching the live timings, and to me it seemed that Alonso was stearing the pace, and Massa was pushing to his limit all the way. As soon as Massa got a lead of over 3 seconds, you saw that Alonso reacted and ate up that lead extremely fast.

And if you have two drivers where one is clearly faster than the other, as a team owner I'd obviously prefer the faster to be ahead.

But in any case, it was a fucking silly move and I'm absolutely gutted for Massa
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Kez
Member
+778|5919|London, UK
The punishment does not currently fit the crime. Sure, team orders exist everywhere still - don't forget Red Bull told Webber to "save fuel" in Turkey ultimately leading to that collision with Vettel and McLaren assured Hamilton that Button would not overtake him later on in the very same Grand Prix. Those are a few examples but none have been so obvious and so ridiculous as Massa was matching Alonso in pace throughout the Grand Prix. Don't forget that Alonso also had a go at Massa earlier in the race as they battled for track position so everything was still possible if Alonso put some effort in. But it required a cheap, simple team order and you could tell Massa was instantly fucked off from the way Rob Smedley was communicating to him on the radio (who appeared sympathetic on the radio to him but in front of the cameras was being controlled by the team).

I hope the WMSC throw the book at them, McLaren and Renault have felt their wrath in recent years and I expect no different to Ferrari.

Last edited by Kez (2010-07-25 14:54:56)

Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|6782|England

Oh yeah, Rob Smedly. I felt sorry for him having to give that order to his "Felipe Baby"...he sounded apologetic and distraught when giving it.

I did like how Ted Cravitz in the pit-lane reported that he sat with his arms crossed and none of the Ferrari team on the pit-wall talked after Alonso passed.
That sums it up.
Kez
Member
+778|5919|London, UK
Didn't Alonso start bitching in Valencia last month about how the races were 'manipulated'?
Zimmer
Un Moderador
+1,688|6972|Scotland

I don't think Massa and Alonso should be penalised, as they merely followed team orders (which any driver has to do). I think the fair thing here is to strip Ferrari of their team points in the constructors championship. That way Alonso and Massa still get their well deserved points but Ferrari get a proper fine. Agree?
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6837|London, England
Yeah, it's not really their fault. Alonso can't do much except just go past him and continue racing really when he slows down like that, not that he would have ever not taken any opportunity to lead the race. Massa could have just continued racing and ignored it but really he never was going to. Constructors points would be the best way

It's different to 2002 Austria because Schumacher could have just stuck behind Barrichello if he wanted to as it was done right at the very end just before the line, then again he wasn't in a choice to pass or not pass either... he was told to do so just like Rubens was told to let him ahead.
Kez
Member
+778|5919|London, UK

Zimmer wrote:

I don't think Massa and Alonso should be penalised, as they merely followed team orders (which any driver has to do). I think the fair thing here is to strip Ferrari of their team points in the constructors championship. That way Alonso and Massa still get their well deserved points but Ferrari get a proper fine. Agree?
Yeah I'd agree with that penalty definately. How would everybody feel if the no team orders rule was abolished? Personally, I think that races would be more processional in that team-mates would be ordered to not fight each other or to swap positions depending on the circumstances. Races would be less spontaneous and less exciting. Last weekend's race was pretty poor, and it's the first really bad race since Bahrain in my opinion
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6837|London, England
Catalunya wasn't anything special either, neither was Monaco - just one or two incidents

Everything else has been good though
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6948|St. Andrews / Oslo

It's actually been a pretty good season so far imo
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Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6948|St. Andrews / Oslo

Anthony Davidson: "For anyone wondering how Yam[amoto]'s race ended, he accidentally pulled the fire switch instead of his brake bias causing the engine to turn off!"

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Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6837|London, England

Jenspm wrote:

Anthony Davidson: "For anyone wondering how Yam[amoto]'s race ended, he accidentally pulled the fire switch instead of his brake bias causing the engine to turn off!"

lol, where did you get this quote from

People would have a field day with this, there was already criticism at the merry go round at HRT with Senna/Chandhok losing their seats to this guy
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6948|St. Andrews / Oslo

Mekstizzle wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Anthony Davidson: "For anyone wondering how Yam[amoto]'s race ended, he accidentally pulled the fire switch instead of his brake bias causing the engine to turn off!"

lol, where did you get this quote from

People would have a field day with this, there was already criticism at the merry go round at HRT with Senna/Chandhok losing their seats to this guy
http://twitter.com/antdavidson

I think one of the Virgin drivers said he had his pit limiter on at the start as well, lol
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