BF2S Forums Saggers!!

nlsme1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

nlsme1 wrote:

Okay, you repair or retro aircraft. That means that you physically alter the aircraft in some way, shape, or form. How many aircraft do you sign of on daily? The last time I performed work for this company, it was to attend a meeting with 15 people that signed a contract for 10,000 items. A tiny clip to hold a wire. 3 per plane. Could i tell you where it went? No. I COULD tell you how much it cost though.

I sign off several a day, and what that means is I troubleshoot and repair aircraft then I sign for the aircraft and my work, deeming it airworthy. So please stop with the my dick is bigger than your dick rhetoric, especially after your remarks about how I am just a mechanic and the industry rest on yours shoulders bit. You know nothing about aircraft or their function or what it takes to make them airworthy, above the bidding for contract aspect which has nothing to do with it. you are in sales

Basically what I was saying. You were the one shouting your "experience". I DON'T have any expertise in aerospace engineering other than a personal fascination. I am NOT in sales! I fulfill a need for a company.  I have met execs from many aerospace companies, I have put my signature on contracts that cover thousands of aircraft, Including what was to be a lucrative contract for an aircraft you could only dream of working on(liter rally as of 2007) Said company DOES HAVE AN EMPLOYEE THAT HAS BEEN KNOWN TO WEAR HIS GOLD TEETHE ALONG WITH BAGGY JEANS AND AN OVER SIZED JERZEY CAP TO THE SIDE GOLD CHAIN BIG DIAMOND THE WORKS, AND HE ACTUALLY EXCELS AT IT!!!!!!!!!!

contracts=sales sorry.

and I promise your gansta wannabe co-worker does not dress like as fool in fornt of his customers. ya know why, because it is foolish looking and everyone knows it.

nlsme1 wrote:

@ OP
The hospital where my wife works, there are twin brothers. They compete with tattoos. Each make 200k+. I have done work for a guy who runs his own medical supply company, who is in a uniform for his own business 5 days a weak then is a typical sagger Sat and Sun.

Are you afraid of these people? If so, wouldn't you want them in some sort of distinctive clothing to be easier to detect? That way it is easier to avoid them? Would you rather all criminals wear suits? No more biker attire, no goth, no hippie, no athletic. I have seen criminals,drug addicts/sellers, thieves, violent criminals dressed in all sorts of clothing. Even suits.

Criminals can and do wear suits. I am playing the odds here and you know the odds are in my favor.

and no I am not afraid of them, I am making an observation about the moral fiber of our society, its declination and where we are headed with it.

sagging is a symptom of a greater problem and that problem is a complete break down of self governance and its end result

Last edited by lowing (2009-06-29 12:39:06)

lowing wrote:

nlsme1 wrote:

@ OP
The hospital where my wife works, there are twin brothers. They compete with tattoos. Each make 200k+. I have done work for a guy who runs his own medical supply company, who is in a uniform for his own business 5 days a weak then is a typical sagger Sat and Sun.

Are you afraid of these people? If so, wouldn't you want them in some sort of distinctive clothing to be easier to detect? That way it is easier to avoid them? Would you rather all criminals wear suits? No more biker attire, no goth, no hippie, no athletic. I have seen criminals,drug addicts/sellers, thieves, violent criminals dressed in all sorts of clothing. Even suits.

Criminals can and do wear suits. I am playing the odds here and you know the odds are in my favor.

and no I am not afraid of them, I am making an observation about the moral fiber of our society, its declination and where we are headed with it.

sagging is a symptom of a greater problem and that problem is a complete break down of self governance and its end result

I will give you this. I will ad that a broad brush with one color does not make good artwork.

Your op should have addressed this more directly. The problem is hardly the fault of those criticized in the op. They are our youth. A product of us. All faults in them are from us. The problems in them go far beyond how some of them wear their pants.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

As I have said, it's not limited to the entertainment industry. Just those that want to be "cool". It's a youth fashion.

Creative industries with a large proportion of young people in (unless they have a specific dress code) will have some staff who dress like this.

What's immoral about wearing loose fitting trousers anyway?

Berster c'mon man, you know exactly what i am talking about, to play oblivious to this image and its effects is below you. It is more than just a fashion, it has become a lifestyle, a cultural identity and a negative one.

I am far from oblivious to it. I am aware that in SOME instances it is as you describe it. But you're not seeing the wider picture, which is that not everyone who chooses to embrace this fashion is some kind of gangsta wannabe covered in bling who can't hold down a normal job. Obviously some of those dressed like this will fit that description. My point is that a heck of a lot of people who choose to dress this way actually lead perfectly productive lives.

Once again you are stereotyping. That is my point.

If you want to have a go at thuggy idiots who hang around on street corners dressed this way and contribute nothing to society, be my guest, but complain about them. Don't just demonise people who happen to dress in a similar fashion.

This promotes a negative non-productive image in our society and we will just have to disagree on just how many are actually worthless and how many seem to want to dress like a gangsta on thier "off time". You seem to think most, and will hang my hat on wayyyyyyy less than that.

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Berster c'mon man, you know exactly what i am talking about, to play oblivious to this image and its effects is below you. It is more than just a fashion, it has become a lifestyle, a cultural identity and a negative one.

I am far from oblivious to it. I am aware that in SOME instances it is as you describe it. But you're not seeing the wider picture, which is that not everyone who chooses to embrace this fashion is some kind of gangsta wannabe covered in bling who can't hold down a normal job. Obviously some of those dressed like this will fit that description. My point is that a heck of a lot of people who choose to dress this way actually lead perfectly productive lives.

Once again you are stereotyping. That is my point.

If you want to have a go at thuggy idiots who hang around on street corners dressed this way and contribute nothing to society, be my guest, but complain about them. Don't just demonise people who happen to dress in a similar fashion.

This promotes a negative non-productive image in our society and we will just have to disagree on just how many are actually worthless and how many seem to want to dress like a gangsta on thier "off time". You seem to think most, and will hang my hat on wayyyyyyy less than that.

So you think they sag because they want to be unemployed gangstas?

It is a trend lowing, a trend popular with youth ... and most of them will lay of this trend when they enter adult life, some will perhaps continue and some may be described as you do ... that's the point lowing, if you beyond the stereotype you will find saggers to be more than a burden to your hard earned salery ...

This is a phenomenon that have been known for a couple of decades now I believe with a spike in the trend the last couple of years, just like any other fashion statement sagging is in that category ... a trend or fashion amongst the youth ...

My 15 year old son sags and he's not exactly in the category you label as a destructive lifestyle, neither is any of his friends that also sags ... just like most boys in that age ... his "crew" are all getting the best grades, he works his paper route 5 days a week and works at the local grocery every other Saturday (following the non sagging dress code of course), and he aspires to be a lawyer and to be frank I'm more afraid he'll become a lawyer than the fact that he sags

I never did sag myself but grew up with lots of people that did, all of them except one have good jobs and are married with kids today ...

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I am far from oblivious to it. I am aware that in SOME instances it is as you describe it. But you're not seeing the wider picture, which is that not everyone who chooses to embrace this fashion is some kind of gangsta wannabe covered in bling who can't hold down a normal job. Obviously some of those dressed like this will fit that description. My point is that a heck of a lot of people who choose to dress this way actually lead perfectly productive lives.

Once again you are stereotyping. That is my point.

If you want to have a go at thuggy idiots who hang around on street corners dressed this way and contribute nothing to society, be my guest, but complain about them. Don't just demonise people who happen to dress in a similar fashion.

This promotes a negative non-productive image in our society and we will just have to disagree on just how many are actually worthless and how many seem to want to dress like a gangsta on thier "off time". You seem to think most, and will hang my hat on wayyyyyyy less than that.

Not the way I see it. One of my friends is, by night, a Hip-Hop DJ - by day, he is a civil servant working in the Palace of Westminster. Obviously he wears a suit by day, but when he's not at work, he typically doesn't. He wears saggy trousers.

What about skateboarders and suchlike? The same low hanging trousers and high boxers as these gangsta wannabes, but very different cultural identity.

I'd say at least 30-40% of schoolkids used to follow such fashions, they're not all out of work now (well, now is kind of a bad time for that example, but you get my point).

I think a lot of it comes down to personal exposure. I know a lot of people who dress like that and hold down decent jobs. I don't imagine you do, hence we have different views on the numbers. But it's not really about the numbers, it's about condemning a group out of hand based not on what they do, but how they dress. Surely you realise that's not a productive way to go about looking at things. It just leads to stereotyping, which is exactly what you're doing and is rarely a sensible way to look at anything. Even if your point has some basis in fact, which this clearly does, this is not a good way of pursuing it.

Like I said, I freely admit, my judging these people is my problem not theirs, and I do not support legislation against this behavior. I would rather us as parents spend more time with our kids and teach them a little respect. For, wearing your clothes where your ass crack, underwear, or dick hanging out is not acceptable dress, and should not be considered so

If I am stereotyping, then those that dress and ACT like this, plays directly into it. Some blame for my opinion about their attitude and dress goes directly toward the very behavior they emulate.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Not the way I see it. One of my friends is, by night, a Hip-Hop DJ - by day, he is a civil servant working in the Palace of Westminster. Obviously he wears a suit by day, but when he's not at work, he typically doesn't. He wears saggy trousers.

What about skateboarders and suchlike? The same low hanging trousers and high boxers as these gangsta wannabes, but very different cultural identity.

I'd say at least 30-40% of schoolkids used to follow such fashions, they're not all out of work now (well, now is kind of a bad time for that example, but you get my point).

I think a lot of it comes down to personal exposure. I know a lot of people who dress like that and hold down decent jobs. I don't imagine you do, hence we have different views on the numbers. But it's not really about the numbers, it's about condemning a group out of hand based not on what they do, but how they dress. Surely you realise that's not a productive way to go about looking at things. It just leads to stereotyping, which is exactly what you're doing and is rarely a sensible way to look at anything. Even if your point has some basis in fact, which this clearly does, this is not a good way of pursuing it.

Like I said, I freely admit, my judging these people is my problem not theirs, and I do not support legislation against this behavior. I would rather us as parents spend more time with our kids and teach them a little respect. For, wearing your clothes where your ass crack, underwear, or dick hanging out is not acceptable dress, and should not be considered so

If I am stereotyping, then those that dress and ACT like this, plays directly into it. Some blame for my opinion about their attitude and dress goes directly toward the very behavior they emulate.

Or maybe it is your ignorance (and by that I mean, you probably haven't hung around with as many "saggers" socially as I have) of this MASSIVE youth trend which is giving you a slanted view on how they act. Skateboarders for example, what behaviour are they emulating that is so awful? Lots of kids like skateboarding and are "saggers", but don't fit in with this culture of violence and crime that you associate with "saggers".

If your problem is simply that you don't like the way it looks and you find it disrespectful, then fine. But don't try to burden what is a huge group of people from a wide variety of backgrounds with some sort of criminal/worthless stigma.

Yer right I haven't, but I am also not blind. I go to the malls,I take my kids to the skate parks, ( by the way, my kids skate just fine with their dicks tucked into their pants) etc..... and I find their behavior to match their dress (generally). Disrespectful, foolish, and gangsta acting.

The other thing is, there is a reason legislation is being passed to curtail this shit, it is exactly because it is over the top and communities feel forced to step in and take over as parent, telling these people what they can wear and what they can't. Ya know like parents are supposed to do. Yeah thats right, the local govts. are forced to become parents because the parents refuse to do their jobs as parents. This is the problem  and the basis for the thread. Our moral declination as a society.

Now like I said I do not support legislation on this issue, but it is time parents started parenting again.

Last edited by lowing (2009-06-29 17:51:29)

lowing wrote:

Now like I said I do not support legislation on this issue, but it is time parents started parenting again.

On this issue I totally agree with you, I read out of  the many of your posts that this decline in parenting is what worries you the most but I do think you exaggerate in some of the posts you make, but that's maybe to get the point across more clearly ...

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Like I said, I freely admit, my judging these people is my problem not theirs, and I do not support legislation against this behavior. I would rather us as parents spend more time with our kids and teach them a little respect. For, wearing your clothes where your ass crack, underwear, or dick hanging out is not acceptable dress, and should not be considered so

If I am stereotyping, then those that dress and ACT like this, plays directly into it. Some blame for my opinion about their attitude and dress goes directly toward the very behavior they emulate.

Or maybe it is your ignorance (and by that I mean, you probably haven't hung around with as many "saggers" socially as I have) of this MASSIVE youth trend which is giving you a slanted view on how they act. Skateboarders for example, what behaviour are they emulating that is so awful? Lots of kids like skateboarding and are "saggers", but don't fit in with this culture of violence and crime that you associate with "saggers".

If your problem is simply that you don't like the way it looks and you find it disrespectful, then fine. But don't try to burden what is a huge group of people from a wide variety of backgrounds with some sort of criminal/worthless stigma.

Yer right I haven't, but I am also not blind. I go to the malls,I take my kids to the skate parks, ( by the way, my kids skate just fine with their dicks tucked into their pants) etc..... and I find their behavior to match their dress (generally). Disrespectful, foolish, and gangsta acting.

The other thing is, there is a reason legislation is being passed to curtail this shit, it is exactly because it is over the top and communities feel forced to step in and take over as parent, telling these people what they can wear and what they can't. Ya know like parents are supposed to do. Yeah thats right, the local govts. are forced to become parents because the parents refuse to do their jobs as parents. This is the problem  and the basis for the thread. Our moral declination as a society.

Now like I said I do not support legislation on this issue, but it is time parents started parenting again.

Not blind no, but you nothing about these people other than what you see at face value. I think I've shown that a large enough proportion of young people have at one point been saggers for it to be fairly obvious that there is any real economic factor. So lets ignore that point and focus on the moral decline of society.

Basically, you're just saying you have a problem with Hip Hop. Which is what this trend os associated with. Not prison. Not gangstas. Not acting like fools. All those associations are, at best, secondary. Hip Hop is the largest youth culture in the world (further demonstrating my point that they cannot be a drain on the economy because there are so many it would be absurd).

Personally, I like Hip Hop. I have no time for muppets like 50 Cent, Puff Daddy, the Game or any of those other pricks who use their (crap) music simply to boast about having lots of money and shooting people. That's not what Hip Hop is about. Although with some of the biggest most popular Hip Hop artists today being such pricks I can see where a lot of peoples hatred of it comes from.

It's all about understanding. I understand that there are elements of Hip Hop culture that are self destructive and anti-social - they weren't there to begin with, but a lot of mainstream Hip Hop has been going that way for a long time. Blaming that on a style of dress is silly and if you understood this issue better you might get that. If anything it is the capitalist aspirations of poverty stricken youth which drive this trend, which is driven by the record companies promoting more of that sort of crap, which leads to wider exposure and eclipses the sort of music that Hip Hop was all about when the movement began. Are the people who've moved Hip Hop in this direction pricks? Yes. Are all people into Hip Hop foolish idiots with no sense of respect? No.

You need to think a bit more about these things. Something pisses you off and you blame everything even vaguely associated. You need to stop castigating big diverse groups and focus more on smaller, less diverse groups and/or individuals - what I'm basically saying is you generalise too much and you need to learn more about what pisses you off and find out who is to blame, not just everyone you immediately associate with it based on your gut instinct.

AussieReaper wrote:

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Now like I said I do not support legislation on this issue, but it is time parents started parenting again.

On this issue I totally agree with you, I read out of  the many of your posts that this decline in parenting is what worries you the most but I do think you exaggerate in some of the posts you make, but that's maybe to get the point across more clearly ...

Lowing wants to give saggers a good belt?

I've seen saggers wearing belts...



...in order to make sure their pants stay about 10 inches below the waist.

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Now like I said I do not support legislation on this issue, but it is time parents started parenting again.

On this issue I totally agree with you, I read out of  the many of your posts that this decline in parenting is what worries you the most but I do think you exaggerate in some of the posts you make, but that's maybe to get the point across more clearly ...

To make a point, yes.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Or maybe it is your ignorance (and by that I mean, you probably haven't hung around with as many "saggers" socially as I have) of this MASSIVE youth trend which is giving you a slanted view on how they act. Skateboarders for example, what behaviour are they emulating that is so awful? Lots of kids like skateboarding and are "saggers", but don't fit in with this culture of violence and crime that you associate with "saggers".

If your problem is simply that you don't like the way it looks and you find it disrespectful, then fine. But don't try to burden what is a huge group of people from a wide variety of backgrounds with some sort of criminal/worthless stigma.

Yer right I haven't, but I am also not blind. I go to the malls,I take my kids to the skate parks, ( by the way, my kids skate just fine with their dicks tucked into their pants) etc..... and I find their behavior to match their dress (generally). Disrespectful, foolish, and gangsta acting.

The other thing is, there is a reason legislation is being passed to curtail this shit, it is exactly because it is over the top and communities feel forced to step in and take over as parent, telling these people what they can wear and what they can't. Ya know like parents are supposed to do. Yeah thats right, the local govts. are forced to become parents because the parents refuse to do their jobs as parents. This is the problem  and the basis for the thread. Our moral declination as a society.

Now like I said I do not support legislation on this issue, but it is time parents started parenting again.

Not blind no, but you nothing about these people other than what you see at face value. I think I've shown that a large enough proportion of young people have at one point been saggers for it to be fairly obvious that there is any real economic factor. So lets ignore that point and focus on the moral decline of society.

Basically, you're just saying you have a problem with Hip Hop. Which is what this trend os associated with. Not prison. Not gangstas. Not acting like fools. All those associations are, at best, secondary. Hip Hop is the largest youth culture in the world (further demonstrating my point that they cannot be a drain on the economy because there are so many it would be absurd).

Personally, I like Hip Hop. I have no time for muppets like 50 Cent, Puff Daddy, the Game or any of those other pricks who use their (crap) music simply to boast about having lots of money and shooting people. That's not what Hip Hop is about. Although with some of the biggest most popular Hip Hop artists today being such pricks I can see where a lot of peoples hatred of it comes from.

It's all about understanding. I understand that there are elements of Hip Hop culture that are self destructive and anti-social - they weren't there to begin with, but a lot of mainstream Hip Hop has been going that way for a long time. Blaming that on a style of dress is silly and if you understood this issue better you might get that. If anything it is the capitalist aspirations of poverty stricken youth which drive this trend, which is driven by the record companies promoting more of that sort of crap, which leads to wider exposure and eclipses the sort of music that Hip Hop was all about when the movement began. Are the people who've moved Hip Hop in this direction pricks? Yes. Are all people into Hip Hop foolish idiots with no sense of respect? No.

You need to think a bit more about these things. Something pisses you off and you blame everything even vaguely associated. You need to stop castigating big diverse groups and focus more on smaller, less diverse groups and/or individuals - what I'm basically saying is you generalise too much and you need to learn more about what pisses you off and find out who is to blame, not just everyone you immediately associate with it based on your gut instinct.

I understand what you are saying but you read too deeply into this. Do I hate Hip Hop Killa Cop? Oh yes! The music about celebrating gang banging is shit. period.

The sagging thing started in prision, and was first worn by ex-cons to give themselves street cred. Ya know, because if you have not popped a cap in someones ass and went to prison you were not accepted. Now, people want their street cred, so they wear this rediculous look. They think people look at them and either respect them or fear them. Nothing could be furthest from the truth. the truth is people loath them as idiots fools and losers. and why? Because they dress the part. It is no stretch to know that you are judged by your appearance and your behavior. These saggers do not look or act respectful. Bopping around holding their dicks, with their pants around their ankles and their underwear around their necks and talking ghetto is idiotic behavior. They are idiots. This is not a generalisation. It is a fact.

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Hip Hop artists THAT WERE IN FUCKIN PRISON, is what made this look so popular.

Care to name some of them?

yer kiddin' right?