BF2S Forums My hat off to the Italians

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Kung Jew wrote:

Is there any other religion that believes that converting to another religion is punishable by death?  I don't think that the religion of Islam condemns outsiders from joining their religious beliefs do they?  Is the convert-out-of-our-beliefs-and-die a standard for all Islamic groups or just Afghanistan's?

Kind of a one-way door, Cerebus style of managing your religious population don't you think?  Almost sounds like the mafia.  I'd hate to think that the entire religious community of Islam felt that once you've become Islamic, you cannot have the free will to change.  It becomes less of a belief in a higher power, and more of a scare tactic at that point, does it not?

KJ

Yes! It's called modern liberalism....in the past it was called Socialism.

Last edited by Spark (2006-03-29 21:22:47)

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Spark wrote:

You know what a religion is, don't you?

And could you please give me an instance of what you're talking about?

Or was this, as I think, a blurted attack on a political philosophy that you don't like?

Yes, Sparky, I DO know what religion is, thank you for asking. The question is, do you?

Merriam Webster wrote:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Pay close attention to the fourth definition because it is in that vein that I made my 'blurted' attack. A political philosophy consists of a doctrine of beliefs that tend to be held onto with considerable ardor and faith. The modern liberal movement has a deep set of core beliefs that they hold onto with tremendous passion, witness the absolute hatred of Bush. This hatred is not based upon anything rational...it is based upon a emotional reaction being fanned by modern demagogues who are playing the young, gullible and uneducated like virtuoso's. This hatred that they whip up is much like the hatred espoused by the mullah's in muslim countries. Try telling your friends that you like Bush and see how they treat you. If you can't see the parallel, than very little I can tell you will do any good.

Now, on the surface, Liberalism/Socialism is a wonderful utopian ideal. However, when put into practice, it becomes a horror. The problem is administering it. Vladimir Lenin I am sure had the noblest intent ushering in the rule of the proleteriat but Stalin had to kill 20 million in order to convince the country to completely convert. Mao Tse Tung killed even more establishing his 'utopia'. I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Berlin wall, but the Socialists would shoot you if you tried to cross it (i.e. convert to the west). It wasn't always that way, my family fled East Germany in 1954, but the constant flow of defections did not sit well with the Socialist ideology, hence, the Berlin wall.  Again, lay on your friends that you have seen the light and find Bush to be admirable and fine leader and evaluate their treatment of you. It is a very thin line separating us from this type of behaviour.

Wikipedia wrote:

Despite the important differences from other left-wing ideologies, the Communism of the USSR and China is almost universally considered to be a part of "the left." This is somewhat parallel to the customary inclusion of fascism (and, in particular, that of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy) in "the right." Nonetheless, communism differs significantly from other politics that are usually classified as left wing, and most left-wingers (even many far left groups) reject any association with it on the grounds that communism is too totalitarian to be politically humane or egalitarian. The argument that communism should be viewed independently of the conventional left-right spectrum has perhaps been made by Karl Popper, through his development of the concept of totalitarianism. There are, however, many communists (most notably Trotskyists and council communists) who regard the totalitarianism of the former Soviet Union to be the result of Stalinism and its betrayals of genuine communist ideology. Likewise, most right-wingers (including many nationalists) reject any association with Nazism and fascism.

Erkut.hv wrote:

KABUL, Afghanistan -     Afghanistan's parliament demanded Wednesday that the government prevent a man who faced the death penalty for abandoning Islam for Christianity from being able to flee the country. Italy granted asylum to Abdul Rahman, 41, and the Foreign Ministry said he would arrive there "soon," maybe within the day.

Rahman was released from prison Monday after a court dropped charges of apostasy against him because of a lack of evidence and suspicions he may be mentally ill. President Hamid Karzai had been under heavy international pressure to drop the case.

Rahman was released from the high-security Policharki prison on the outskirts of the capital late Monday. Justice Minister Mohammed Sarwar Danish said Tuesday that Rahman was staying at a "safe location" in Kabul.

His current whereabouts were unknown.

The Italian government granted asylum to Rahman after Muslim clerics called for his death.

"I say that we are very glad to be able to welcome someone who has been so courageous," Premier Silvio Berlusconi said.

Afghan lawmakers debated the issue Wednesday and said Rahman should not be allowed to leave the country. However, they did not take a formal vote on the issue.

"We sent a letter and called the Interior Ministry and demanded they not allow Abdul Rahman to leave the country," parliamentary speaker Yunus Qanooni told reporters on behalf of the entire body.

Interior Ministry officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

Rahman was put on trial last week for converting 16 years ago while he was a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He was carrying a Bible when arrested and faced the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws.

The case caused an outcry in the United States and other nations that helped oust the hard-line Taliban regime in late 2001 and provide aid and military support for Karzai.

Muslim clerics condemned Rahman's release, saying it was a "betrayal of Islam," and threatened to incite violent protests.

Some 500 Muslim leaders, students and others gathered Wednesday in a mosque in southern Qalat town and criticized the government for releasing Rahman, said Abdulrahman Jan, the top cleric in Zabul province.

He said the government should either force Rahman to convert back to Islam or kill him.

"This is a terrible thing and a major shame for Afghanistan," he said.

Rahman has appealed to leave Afghanistan, and the  United Nations has been working to find a country willing to take him.

Italy has close ties with Afghanistan, whose former king, Mohammed Zaher Shah, was allowed to live in exile in Rome with his family for 30 years. The former royals returned to Kabul after the Taliban fell.

The United States and Germany welcomed Rahman's release from prison.

"Obviously it's good news that he has been released," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Germany, a major donor to Afghanistan that has about 2,000 troops in the NATO security force, also expressed satisfaction.

"I think this is a sensible signal to the international community but also for the situation in Afghanistan," German Chancellor Angela Merkel said.

Spark wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

No Sparky, It is not I who is mixed up.

If you read it, you'd see that

1. Communism is not compatible with some left-wing beliefs

2. Stalinism and Maoism is not compatible with some communist beliiefs.

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Kung Jew wrote:

Is there any other religion that believes that converting to another religion is punishable by death?  I don't think that the religion of Islam condemns outsiders from joining their religious beliefs do they?  Is the convert-out-of-our-beliefs-and-die a standard for all Islamic groups or just Afghanistan's?

Kind of a one-way door, Cerebus style of managing your religious population don't you think?  Almost sounds like the mafia.  I'd hate to think that the entire religious community of Islam felt that once you've become Islamic, you cannot have the free will to change.  It becomes less of a belief in a higher power, and more of a scare tactic at that point, does it not?

KJ

Yes! It's called modern liberalism....in the past it was called Socialism.

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Rosse_modest wrote:

Is that a liquid nitrogen cooled laser gun in your sig?

Close.....liquified Dihydrogen Monoxide! Read about the dangers of this dangerous chemical compund here!