pilots they got. but skilled? hardly. our hawaii national guards flying f-15s owned israeli pilots during red flag. the israeli pilots always used their ability to speak hebrew to get the upper hand in communications but when the hawaii national guard pilots started speaking their native hawaiian language the israeli pilots were lost because they dont understand a word being said over intercepted communications. the israeli pilots were 'killed' before they even saw the hawaiian national guard planes.stryyker wrote:
Isreal can do whatever they please, most skilled pilots in the worldTrollmeaT wrote:
Isreal is americas bitch, they will do what we say.
Or thieves work in a bank.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
or its like saying child molesters should be able to work at a day care
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Depends on what kind of planes they were flying as well....none the less the two Air Forces are among the most skilled in the world. I also think that they probably spent more time trying to intercept signals than fight though...lol. Anyway Israel could single handedly fuck over the middle east and they would do it w/o us backing them as well. They have a mandatory 2 yrs in the military for every citizen after they get out of high school. That means their whole population of 18-up is trained to fight. I don't think they would hold back on bombs either. Could get ugly.bigelectricat wrote:
pilots they got. but skilled? hardly. our hawaii national guards flying f-15s owned israeli pilots during red flag. the israeli pilots always used their ability to speak hebrew to get the upper hand in communications but when the hawaii national guard pilots started speaking their native hawaiian language the israeli pilots were lost because they dont understand a word being said over intercepted communications. the israeli pilots were 'killed' before they even saw the hawaiian national guard planes.stryyker wrote:
Isreal can do whatever they please, most skilled pilots in the worldTrollmeaT wrote:
Isreal is americas bitch, they will do what we say.
this sounds awfully fucking familiar, just replace N with Q and now with 2002
there goes my individual ready reserve
Isreal will just use some US f-117 and bomb the shit out of iran
Well if the US does end up backing Isreal and uses our forces to help.....there goes my one weekend a month deal.
If my country wants me back in then Im getting back in...if this shit happens
If Israel bombs the plants / rescearch centres, then be it. I think it would be a better altertnative to powerless UN bitching and gradual escalation of the conflict while the Iranians cackle and gloat at the Western impotence to do anything but whine. Besides, there can be little negotiation with a nutcase like Ahmadinejad, who has given no ground during the negotiations and just expects everyone to bow before his holy will. I say the sooner the Israelis bomb the nuke plants the better. No-one else has the balls for it, except maybe US, but they are tied down in too many places at the moment. And Europe? Pfft. Whiny bitches all, too afraid to fart lest they insult somebody.
As for the "Peaceful nuclear power" arguement touted by Iran, I'd have to say it's utter bullshit. The country is sitting on one of the largest natural gas reservoirs in the world, it's got oil coming out of every hole, and you're telling me it's going to spend billions in order to build a few nuclear power plants it doesn't need? Right.
As for the "Peaceful nuclear power" arguement touted by Iran, I'd have to say it's utter bullshit. The country is sitting on one of the largest natural gas reservoirs in the world, it's got oil coming out of every hole, and you're telling me it's going to spend billions in order to build a few nuclear power plants it doesn't need? Right.
LoL, Isreal had one of the most powerfull Secret Agency that cleared out Headpieces of the Terrorists networks on a clean way , i really laughed my ass of when i heard about that Rocket attack on that Imam in the weelchair Nice Shot!
the real power of israel... no one if it has nukes or not...
the only reason way Israel can exist is withe the support from the US.
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240
it would be a nice excuse if they were the only ones trying to intercept signals but fact of the matter is so were the national guard pilots during the combat excercise. it was how the national guard pilots found out that the israeli pilots were speaking hebrew to prevent their enemy from getting their position and strategy. the israeli's were exposed after that and everyone realized that their legendary combat skill is only as good as their understanding of the enemy language. im sure the israeli pilots are now taking lessons on how to speak hawaiian.2ndLt.Tucker wrote:
Depends on what kind of planes they were flying as well....none the less the two Air Forces are among the most skilled in the world. I also think that they probably spent more time trying to intercept signals than fight though...lol. Anyway Israel could single handedly fuck over the middle east and they would do it w/o us backing them as well. They have a mandatory 2 yrs in the military for every citizen after they get out of high school. That means their whole population of 18-up is trained to fight. I don't think they would hold back on bombs either. Could get ugly.
being conscripts doesnt make you a better pilot. the israeli air force is overated in my opinion. true that the isreali's wont hold back on bombs. but thats because they are not tied down by any treaty or multinational organization like the UN. which makes it odd that people correlate their agressiveness to skill.
Isreal cannot and will not live with one of their muslim neighbours having the bomb, that's for sure. They have prevented ( or at least slowed it down ) such a development in the past, and they most likely will do it again.
The question is, how much support will the US and the rest of the western nations be willing to give.
It is quite unlikely that anything wil achieved in the security council, I am afraid. Still, I hope for a diplomatic, non-violent solution.
The question is, how much support will the US and the rest of the western nations be willing to give.
It is quite unlikely that anything wil achieved in the security council, I am afraid. Still, I hope for a diplomatic, non-violent solution.
Well, I think that we can pretty much guarantee that not only will the EU states not be offering to help Israel out, but that they will condemn the bombings in no uncertain terms, maybe even taking some sort of punishing measures (i.e. maybe some sort of limited economic sanctions) against Israel. Oh, and without offering any realistic alternatives either.
As for the US... That's the 40 Million dollar question. On one hand, all US has to do is say that "We stand by Israel" after the strikes, and that alone might avert a possible all-out war in the region. However if the bluff is called the US military will have a tough time stretching its forces even further, what with the situation in Iraq and all. And Iran just might use the Israeli attack to justify an attempt at an invasion of Iraq, since we all know that Iran wouldn't mind taking control in Iraq and that Iran is financially and logistically doing its utmost to prevent stabilisation in the region.
As for the US... That's the 40 Million dollar question. On one hand, all US has to do is say that "We stand by Israel" after the strikes, and that alone might avert a possible all-out war in the region. However if the bluff is called the US military will have a tough time stretching its forces even further, what with the situation in Iraq and all. And Iran just might use the Israeli attack to justify an attempt at an invasion of Iraq, since we all know that Iran wouldn't mind taking control in Iraq and that Iran is financially and logistically doing its utmost to prevent stabilisation in the region.
americans dont realize how stretched our armed forces are. its a bigger problem than youd think
It wouldn't be for long. If we went into an all out combat situation with Iran, I'm willing to bet money you would see the draft reinstated.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
americans dont realize how stretched our armed forces are. its a bigger problem than youd think
Apparently, a lesson in geography is required for the "our armed forces are streched thin" believers out there.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
americans dont realize how stretched our armed forces are. its a bigger problem than youd think
Does anyone know where Iran is? Sandwiched in between Afghanistan and Iraq.
Our 'thinly' stretched armed forces have them surrounded.
And if Israel doesn't finish the job.....
It doesn't matter than Iran is between Iraq and Afghanistan, we just don't have enough troops to go in and take Iran as well, and still have the number of troops necessary to keep sufficient numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan.Darth_Fleder wrote:
Apparently, a lesson in geography is required for the "our armed forces are streched thin" believers out there.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
americans dont realize how stretched our armed forces are. its a bigger problem than youd think
Does anyone know where Iran is? Sandwiched in between Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.gl.iit.edu/govdocs/maps/Iran … isions.gif
Our 'thinly' stretched armed forces have them surrounded.
And if Israel doesn't finish the job.....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … n-next.jpg
Like I said, if the US decided it was going to go into an all out conflict with Iran, they would most likely initiate a draft.
since you are so well schooled in geography you will have to notice the size of Iran, gaining control over it wont be like afghanistan or Iraq.Darth_Fleder wrote:
Apparently, a lesson in geography is required for the "our armed forces are streched thin" believers out there.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
americans dont realize how stretched our armed forces are. its a bigger problem than youd think
Does anyone know where Iran is? Sandwiched in between Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.gl.iit.edu/govdocs/maps/Iran … isions.gif
Our 'thinly' stretched armed forces have them surrounded.
And if Israel doesn't finish the job.....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … n-next.jpg
the us army are in deep shit in iraq already.
haha im sure thats what happened...the IAF(Israeli Air Force) had a little duel between some of their top fighters and the american air force's top fighters. the results were- 1 f-18 and 3 f-15 which belonged to the IAF were shot down by the american air force, pretty impressive, but the israeli's had shot down 113 american fighters down of various sorts. It was in an israeli newspaper, maariv, the information was supposed to be top secret but there was unfortunalty a leak. So you can honestly not tell me they lack skills!bigelectricat wrote:
pilots they got. but skilled? hardly. our hawaii national guards flying f-15s owned israeli pilots during red flag. the israeli pilots always used their ability to speak hebrew to get the upper hand in communications but when the hawaii national guard pilots started speaking their native hawaiian language the israeli pilots were lost because they dont understand a word being said over intercepted communications. the israeli pilots were 'killed' before they even saw the hawaiian national guard planes.stryyker wrote:
Isreal can do whatever they please, most skilled pilots in the worldTrollmeaT wrote:
Isreal is americas bitch, they will do what we say.
Last edited by see-pie (2006-03-09 10:26:53)
Getting control isn't the problem...we could get control of Iran in a fairly short time...it's KEEPING control that is a bitch. The US Army is the best in the world at winning fights...but not very adept at keeping peace. They are life takers and heart breakers...not social workers with guns.herrr_smity wrote:
since you are so well schooled in geography you will have to notice the size of Iran, gaining control over it wont be like afghanistan or Iraq.Darth_Fleder wrote:
Apparently, a lesson in geography is required for the "our armed forces are streched thin" believers out there.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
americans dont realize how stretched our armed forces are. its a bigger problem than youd think
Does anyone know where Iran is? Sandwiched in between Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.gl.iit.edu/govdocs/maps/Iran … isions.gif
Our 'thinly' stretched armed forces have them surrounded.
And if Israel doesn't finish the job.....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … n-next.jpg
the us army are in deep shit in iraq already.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-03-09 10:25:09)
Impressive...But the only reason why america wants to aid israel is because they annually buy their fighter jets...without these jets the americans would be stuck with their stealth fighters which cost a fortune...and even though the americans have the knowledge to build the israeli F-18's, they cant afford to pay the building cost so therefor they buy them from Israel for almost half price. Why would they otherwise hang onto Israel for so long?herrr_smity wrote:
the only reason way Israel can exist is withe the support from the US.
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240
Last edited by see-pie (2006-03-09 10:39:09)
truewhittsend wrote:
Getting control isn't the problem...we could get control of Iran in a fairly short time...it's KEEPING control that is a bitch. The US Army is the best in the world at winning fights...but not very adept at keeping peace. They are life takers and heart breakers...not social workers with guns.herrr_smity wrote:
since you are so well schooled in geography you will have to notice the size of Iran, gaining control over it wont be like afghanistan or Iraq.Darth_Fleder wrote:
Apparently, a lesson in geography is required for the "our armed forces are streched thin" believers out there.
Does anyone know where Iran is? Sandwiched in between Afghanistan and Iraq.
http://www.gl.iit.edu/govdocs/maps/Iran … isions.gif
Our 'thinly' stretched armed forces have them surrounded.
And if Israel doesn't finish the job.....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … n-next.jpg
the us army are in deep shit in iraq already.
to have a strategic partner in the middle east.see-pie wrote:
Impressive...But the only reason why america wants to aid israel is because they annually buy their fighter jets...without these jets the americans would be stuck with their stealth fighters which cost a fortune...and even though the americans have the knowledge to build the israeli F-18's, they cant afford to pay the building cost so therefor they buy them from Israel for almost half price. Why would they otherwise hang onto Israel for so long?herrr_smity wrote:
the only reason way Israel can exist is withe the support from the US.
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240