jonnykill wrote:
imortal wrote:
jonnykill wrote:
All I have to say is that toutrue is wrong and it's embarrasing to hear my country is practicing it to be honest . I fell really bad for the poor bastards who just got cuaght up in the mix if you will . I just red in the paper today how we released like 150 inmates because they really weren't a threat and didn't have any information at all . Well if that IS the case then it's just plain wrong . Although I do feel things like breaking a person down mentally and limited physical pain such as " stress positions " and sleep deprivation are all fair game . If we keep this up it will just end up hurting us in the end . We can't stoop down to the level of a terrorist .
If we were "stooping to the level of a terrorist,' as you put it, we would put a bullet in their heads, guilty or not. Then we would finsd their families and shoot them, so they wouldn't avenge him. Notice that we are not doing that.
I have seen a man at a checkpoint in Iraq, proclaiming his love of the U.S. and his hatred of Saddam. He was telling us how innocent he was- right up until we pulled the AK-47 out from under his seat.
Muslims are allowed and encouraged to lie to non-Muslims in all things, so they have no feeling of doubt or guilt when it comes to lying themselves silly. It is a part of their culture.
Oh, in Chapel Hill, NC last Friday, A Pakastani Muslim who had graduated from UNC-CH ran his car through a local hangout, injuring 8 people. His stated reason was to avenge those muslims who have died throughout the world.
At least we are trying to target the "bad guys." Terrorists don't care WHO their targets are; their goal is to produce fear and publicity. Their targets rarely have any direct connection to what they are trying to achieve. That is why they are terrorists.
So your advocating the use of touture ? First off not every single person at Gitmo is a terrorist . The Army said they released prisoners that were either found innocent or found out they they didn't pose a threat to national security . They realised some were low level grunts and no matter how much questioning they underwent it all boiled down to nothing worth while . And that is the big problem with touture . If you truely have an innocent person in custody and you touture them all they give you is fasle information to make the pain stop . Then you take that false info and waste your resourses on it . Makes no sence . Now this guy is really gonna go nuts when we let him go . Hes going to spread the word like some have done and let the world in on it . Some will rejoin the Jihad and let others know how bad Gitmo is . Who would want to go to Gitmo right ? Just another reason to become a suicide bomber . In a time where we are trying to win hearts and minds tourturing our captives makes us no better then the terrorists and makes a mockery of our commitment to the Geneva Convention . We loose international respect from our Allies and foment more hate in the middle east .
Nice way to jump to a conclusion despite reading anything I actually said. You had suggested that we were acting like the terrorists, and I simply provided a method of comparison. At no time did I say "We should," I simply mentioned that we COULD.
Also, my unit put some of those guys in there. During my short stay in Iraq, we detained a LOT of bad guys. WE also picked up some people that had nothing to do with what was going on. One guy we pickep up spent six weeks in our lockup. After we let him out, we actually hired him as a translator for our unit. He was very helpful, and even was responsible for helping to bring down an Iraqi black market ring.
I KNOW there are most likely some good caught up with the bad. And I really wish we had a decent and reliable way to determine who the decent human beings are, so we can let them go.
However, I will tell you another story. A group of four Iraqis attacked one of our checkpoints one evening in early June, 2003. They killed one of our NCOs, who was a drinking buddy of mine. The four baddies then dropped their weapons and ran for it. They drop their weapons because they know we are not allowed to shoot them if are unarmed. Our unit chased them, but they made it into a nearby market. So... we detained the ENTIRE marketplace. 203 males. We let the women go, since they weren't who we were looking for.
We KNOW we had the four baddies that attacked us in the group; we just had to find them. We transported them to our base, and brought in Military Inteligence (no jokes, please) to question them in an attempt to find the four we wanted. We had only been going a couple hours (6 interviews) when the mayor of the town with the market we captured came to our base, and we were ordered to cooperate.
The mayor offered to personally verify everyone we brought, and he would identify anyone who didn't belong, while clearing those who MUST be innocent. The Results? He personally vouched that EVERY SINGLE person was safe, and would never harm a hair on our heads. We had to let them all go. Including the four who attacked our checkpoint.
In this case, we are only talking about 4 guiltiy and 199 innocent. We really wanted those 4, but we had to let them go. Do you know how it feels to let go someone who killed a friend of yours? We didn't hurt any of those people, either.
In the case of Guantanamo Bay, I think, personally, that about 95% of them are guilty as sin.
I agree that we should not lose sight of who we are and what makes us that way while we do what we need to. You must realize, however, that the military might have to do things that are not allowed in polite company, simply due to the nature of warfare. Soldiers (and sailors, marines, and airmen) do those ugly things so you don't have to do them, and so you have the freedom to sit back and insult them for being mean.
That last paragraph was NOT directed at johnnykill in particular. I believe in attacking ideas, not people. But if the shoe fits, wear it.