Poll

Who do you hate more, Bush or Bin laden?

Bush22%22% - 4
Bin Laden77%77% - 14
Total: 18
Berserk_Vampire
Banned
+7|6916
They are both evil Bin Laden kills people with his terrorist's and Bush sends his people off to get killed as well just to fill his pockets with money from other countries oil wile his people die.

But there is a bit of good in Bin Laden all of the terrorist attacks on the United States are for a reason and the U.S deserve it and it makes me really happy hes doing a very good job its like music to my ears i mean when you see the attacks you feel bad but then when you see how Americans Act and there mentality then you realize they deserve it and its not so bad so keep up the good work.

Keep on doing suicide attacks on the United States dont stop we love it.

Alright from the top:

Here we go burn baby burn! Its the hottest gum in town.

Burn baby burn doo doo doo doo *does monkey dance*
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
Dude what is your problem? What if we...no the hell with it...what if I came into YOUR town and started killing everyone there...but you? Would you deserve it? NO!!! SO WHY THE FUCK DO WE DESERVE IT????
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6879|USA
This is the first time I have ever posted on any forum of any kind. To be honest I always read these threads with amusement and a head shake. Until now!

I am an American, The bashing of America and Bush never bothered me, after all freedom of speech is at the core of what America is about. The only time it bothers me is when it comes from someone in a country that needed help from around the world to regain their own freedom TWICE in 1 century, yeah I mean countries like France. The hypocrisy of their words is staggering. Their country is home of thousands of American graves who fought and died for THEM. Once France was liberated, did we keep it and make it an American territory, or British territory, in either war? NO! We gave it back to them and asked only 1 thing in return, a "place to bury our dead" (paraphrased from a Colin Powell comment).

I also take offense from comments from Germany. Since Germany has been the root cause for so much death and destruction around the world in the last century; I figure you have earned the right to say nothing. After the billions of lives that were lost and disrupted battling your foolishness, you have no right to bash any country that is fighting and dying to help those that can't help themselves. Not when your govt. was the great oppressor of the 20th century. So sit in the corner facing the wall. You should (still) be ashamed of yourselves.

Now, my take on the Bush bashing: The 8 years before Bush came to office, we were NOT in Iraq, nor Afghanistan. Yet, American interests were targeted for terrorism. The first WTC in 93 I think it was, various American embassies, our warship the USS Cole. We weren't in the Middle East when 9-11 occurred!! So America musters and goes to war. More people were killed on 9-11 than on 12-7-1941.

Our nation in WW2 rallied and came together, despite our differences, for the common good, preservation of freedom for America and all countries who embrace it. There was no opposition to America "sticking its nose in other countries business" back then. Nope none at all, and why?? Because back then it was all these America and Bush bashing countries deprived of freedom. Thank God America did stick its nose into your business 60 years ago. Or you would ALL be speaking German right now or Japanese. Now that America and its allies has secured freedom for you, you should join the ranks of those that liberated you and help the others that our in need of it. You should be ashamed to let others fight and die for your freedom, and not help when you are needed and wanted.

As far as the WMDs, let me say this, because I am sick of this as well, the WMDs that we looked for was NOT a warehouse full of weapons. It was a weapon where 1 grain could kill 100,000 people!! We know he had it because he used it on his own people. In this case it was better to be proven wrong by going in and finding out, than it would have been to be proven right by 1,000,000 people dead. In that scenario I am sure you all would be screaming " WHY DIDN'T AMERICA DO SOMETHING???!!!"

The reason we are in Iraq: Oil huh?? If America REALLY wanted their oil, what stopped us 60 years ago form taking it? Hell, what stopped us 15 years ago from taking it? We left Kuwait and Iraq and its oil to its people.

The reason we went back to Iraq was because it was proven that; first, Iraqis govt. had ties to terrorism. Second, the UN imposed resolutions that were agreed upon by Iraq were being violated.  Third intelligence at the time showed WMD in that country. Intel, by the way, that was agreed upon by the leaders of most of your countries.

In the past 13 years or so, America has been the target of multiple terrorist attacks, not to mention the ones that were intercepted. Europe has had a bigger history of terrorist attacks than America has. My question is this: How on earth could you be against us in this war? How can you sit there and criticize America on this issue? Do you not get it?? WE ARE FIGHTING FOR ALL WHO WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WITHOUT THIS THREAT!!

Bush isn't a perfect president, there are things that he could have done better, but at this moment, terrorism and these radical Muslims is our presidents first priority and he should have our support on that issue


Now for another undeniable fact: Since 9-11 and because of our president’s efforts, there has not been a single attack on our soil. America has taken the fight to the terrorist, and I am ever so proud, and grateful of our military and their families for their sacrifices to us and to YOU. Sad, you don't join me, for they fight and die for YOUR freedom to call Bush a terrorist. SHAME ON YOU.

Funny, I thought I would feel better after ranting, but I am still sick to my stomache.
MartinPocrezze
Member
+-3|6907
@bob america comes in town and kills everyone
when america was air stryking iraq all who died were civilians more or less

dude america killed the real made of america indians and now they want to bring peace to other countries - yeah right (america genocid boys)

Last edited by MartinPocrezze (2006-02-10 08:17:45)

Berserk_Vampire
Banned
+7|6916

bob_6012 wrote:

Dude what is your problem? What if we...no the hell with it...what if I came into YOUR town and started killing everyone there...but you? Would you deserve it? NO!!! SO WHY THE FUCK DO WE DESERVE IT????
You're serious you're asking why you deserve it?

#1 You think you own the world and every country and  can tell every one what to do.

#2 I dont like Terrorist's either but maybe if you're country stopped  talking bad about the Middle East and stopped treating ALL of them like terrorists then they wouldnt hate you as much.

#3 Stop with the my America is better then yours we own you sticking you're nose where it doesnt belong mentality.

#4 Stop going into peoples countries and starting wars and killing tons of children people and you're own people just for Oil.

I could go on but the main thing is you're peoples additude on the world towards other countries if you stop these gay ways then im sure alot more people would like you and maybe just maybe i would too.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6963|California
All the more reason for us to pack up everything (embassies, troops, etc....) and close off our borders. Then we can watch what happens to Europe and Russia when we aren't around. Love us or hate us, you need America. Which is why I want to pack it all in. To let you guys try creating a eutopia without us.
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
We sit on our asses and let bad stuff happen we get bitched at...we do something about the problems we get bitched at...I think the world just likes to bitch...and ya know what y'all have a right too...but I will say this...we liberated 2 entire countries from fanatical regimes...and one man did that...you can say what you want but I'm a god-damned red blooded American and I'm proud of what we've done...oh and the childkilling...I like that...just like back in Vietnam...brilliant...and where is there proof that we went in for oil? I mean solid tangible proof...

Last edited by bob_6012 (2006-02-10 08:22:36)

dirtyepics
Member
+19|6960|England
They're both fighting for what they believe in with the weapons they have at hand we're just dragged along for the ride. Bush is a fool, Bin Laden is deluded. Hate doesn't come into it. All politicians are liars, all terrorists are narrow minded we're just stuck with them.
-(F^S)-Fatty
Member
+3|6953

Miller wrote:

Ok Bin Ladan should die.  He had people fly airliners into a building all  in the name of Allah!  So we arent islamic, i say they should play russin roulet with a full cylinder.  I also think that hey! Going to war isnt so bad if its for oil, the rich people of america can finally fly their private jets without worrying when they need to refuel.  Bush is taking the only option we have right now in america.  Go kill to save thousands more.  Bin ladan hasnt killed only those three thousand in the world trade center.  Think about all the bombings of israel, and of american soldiers, etc etc.  I want bin ladan to be slowly killed, not a quick shot to the head.  Shoot his balls off, then slowy work from the feet up, then one to the throat, let him squirm like the worm he is, then finish him off.  Chiristians dont strap bombs to their chests run around and say For God!!!  We let them be if they dont want to be christian, unless that christian is psycho, like some austrailian guy.  Osama needs to die, sadam needs to die, kim jung needs to die, and now hamas has control of another contry, fidel castro needs to die also.  If we as americans dont fight for our rights to live be free and choose our religion, then what is the point of all this.  I hope some of your countries get hit like the USA, then you might fucking understand.
can i get an Amen?
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
Amen...
Greenie_Beazinie
Aussie Outlaw
+8|7041
Bush. I have no hate for Osama.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7005

B.Schuss wrote:

no offense, dude, but what a stupid question to ask. I know neither of the guys. How am I supposed to know who I'd hate more if I ever met them ?

Neither one of them has done me or my familiy any harm.

but for the sake of discussion, here goes:

OBL has ordered the 09/11 attacks which resulted in about 3,500 deaths, as far as I know.
Let's also say that OBL is directly or indirectly responsible for every US KIA in iraq ( although that has yet to be proven ). about 2,000 casualties.

That's roughly 5,500 deaths caused by OBL

Now, let's compare that to the number of innocent civilians that have been killed either directly by US forces or as a result of the US lead war on terror in the middle east.
I don't have specific numbers, but I bet my sorry little, number-comparing, stats-crazy ass that it is considerably more than 5,500...

I am gonna look into this later and see what numbers the almighty internet can come up with.

you feel the sarcasm here ? statistics mean nothing to those guys. Both do what they do because they believe in something, because they fight for something, or because they try to protect/defend something.

Bush claims to have the moral/ethical advantage on his side. you know, "good intentions", "fight for freedom and democracy", "just cause" and all of that. But that's all a matter of perspective. OBL claims the same for himself.

Bottom Line is I don't hate either of them. I pitty them both.

can I close this now ?
By your indirect logic you can attribute the civilian deaths to OBL.
Sgt. Sergio Bennet 3rd
Member
+169|6974|Mexico City
So you say everyone that has a towel at his head is a terrorist ????
kid, you are so short minded, get out of your basement.

Bush and landen families are friends;
the main company in charge of rebuilding Afganistan belongs to the landen family,
the "liberation" of irak was a pretext to rape the country and steal the oil, did you know the last country on the planet that will have oil is irak ???

getting innocents in the crossfire??? do you ever see international feed news ?, all the news at the US are censored, weeks ago the US bombed at pakistan a family wedding because CIA told them a terorist was there...the terrorist was at another country..
at Irak the US bombed a lot of civilian sites..didnt you see the news of a 12 y o kid that lose ALL his extremities because of one bombing..

War on terror ??? BUsh has done everything to terrorize the whole world.

The main problem is the US getting into middle east affairs and its devotion to Israel, one country all middle east hates.

The US voted for Bush out of fear, but you should think that the enemy is within.


bob_6012 wrote:

GrammatonCleric wrote:

They're both terrorists killing people in the masses...
How is Bush a terrorist? Do you see him running around with a towel wrapped around his head...commanding people to go and blow themselves up and target infidels but it's ok if innocencts get caught in the crossfire? What the hell man?
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7005

Berserk_Vampire wrote:

bob_6012 wrote:

Dude what is your problem? What if we...no the hell with it...what if I came into YOUR town and started killing everyone there...but you? Would you deserve it? NO!!! SO WHY THE FUCK DO WE DESERVE IT????
You're serious you're asking why you deserve it?

#1 You think you own the world and every country and  can tell every one what to do.

#2 I dont like Terrorist's either but maybe if you're country stopped  talking bad about the Middle East and stopped treating ALL of them like terrorists then they wouldnt hate you as much.

#3 Stop with the my America is better then yours we own you sticking you're nose where it doesnt belong mentality.

#4 Stop going into peoples countries and starting wars and killing tons of children people and you're own people just for Oil.

I could go on but the main thing is you're peoples additude on the world towards other countries if you stop these gay ways then im sure alot more people would like you and maybe just maybe i would too.
These reasons are total envy.  The big dog will always be envied.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7005

Sgt. Sergio Bennet 3rd wrote:

So you say everyone that has a towel at his head is a terrorist ????
kid, you are so short minded, get out of your basement.

Bush and landen families are friends;
the main company in charge of rebuilding Afganistan belongs to the landen family,
the "liberation" of irak was a pretext to rape the country and steal the oil, did you know the last country on the planet that will have oil is irak ???

getting innocents in the crossfire??? do you ever see international feed news ?, all the news at the US are censored, weeks ago the US bombed at pakistan a family wedding because CIA told them a terorist was there...the terrorist was at another country..
at Irak the US bombed a lot of civilian sites..didnt you see the news of a 12 y o kid that lose ALL his extremities because of one bombing..

War on terror ??? BUsh has done everything to terrorize the whole world.

The main problem is the US getting into middle east affairs and its devotion to Israel, one country all middle east hates.

The US voted for Bush out of fear, but you should think that the enemy is within.


bob_6012 wrote:

GrammatonCleric wrote:

They're both terrorists killing people in the masses...
How is Bush a terrorist? Do you see him running around with a towel wrapped around his head...commanding people to go and blow themselves up and target infidels but it's ok if innocencts get caught in the crossfire? What the hell man?
I love it when people post their accusations based on opinions.  Post facts not baseless accusations.
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA

Sgt. Sergio Bennet 3rd wrote:

So you say everyone that has a towel at his head is a terrorist ????
kid, you are so short minded, get out of your basement.

Bush and landen families are friends;
the main company in charge of rebuilding Afganistan belongs to the landen family,
the "liberation" of irak was a pretext to rape the country and steal the oil, did you know the last country on the planet that will have oil is irak ???

getting innocents in the crossfire??? do you ever see international feed news ?, all the news at the US are censored, weeks ago the US bombed at pakistan a family wedding because CIA told them a terorist was there...the terrorist was at another country..
at Irak the US bombed a lot of civilian sites..didnt you see the news of a 12 y o kid that lose ALL his extremities because of one bombing..

War on terror ??? BUsh has done everything to terrorize the whole world.

The main problem is the US getting into middle east affairs and its devotion to Israel, one country all middle east hates.

The US voted for Bush out of fear, but you should think that the enemy is within.


bob_6012 wrote:

GrammatonCleric wrote:

They're both terrorists killing people in the masses...
How is Bush a terrorist? Do you see him running around with a towel wrapped around his head...commanding people to go and blow themselves up and target infidels but it's ok if innocencts get caught in the crossfire? What the hell man?
At no point did I say if ya had a towel on your head that makes ya a terrorist I just said that ya didn't see Bush doing it...please don't twist my words...and I didn't vote for Bush out of fear...this isn't like some countries in the middle east...it's America...
Torin
Member
+52|6920
Bush. I don't care much for Bin Ladin, but Bush is single handedly doing more damage to our country than Bin Ladin ever did and will ever do.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6944
i just find it idiotic how ppl say bush declares war on iraq, In the US constitution only congress is allowed to declare wars and make treaties... and the US hasnt officially declared a war since 1941... Bush says "ill lower taxes" only Congress can do that... but bush just moved troops to iraq, placed them there congress was kinda forced to give them supplies other wise they'll be blamed... and how the fuck did bush kill 100k+ ppl? military perosonel are military, not civilians. civilian casualties happen everywhere, what if they just got caught in a fire fight?
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chitlin
Banned
+36|6990
i hate europeans who think they are better and left wing socialist faggots who think some islamic terrorist is better than a retarded president
Scorpian65
Member
+14|6966
Gotta love the little boys in here posting their big grownup opinions when they have no F'ing idea what the world is really about.

The Iraq invasion was to rid the country of a muderous dictator who was presumed to have WMD's. This presumption turned out to be incorrect, however the US, Britian and the countless other nations involved all believed it to be true when we started. I would truly like for those idiots that think it was for their oil to explain to me just WTF it is my gasoline costs me $2.40/gal and my heating oil is $2.26/gal almost $1.00 more per gallon then when we invaded.

Obviously there is also no understanding of the US goverment either. Yes Bush is our President and has final say on some laws. But, unlike the middle eastern dictators he "DOES NOT" have the ability to declare war or send troops into another country without the approval of our congress/senate, unless it is in direct response to an action of war against us.

For all of you out there that think we invoke the Muslim hatred on ourselves you may want to look back into your own history. It was the Christians as a whole that started it all centuries ago, so no matter what country you live in now unless your a Muslin then STFU because most likely one of your ancesters had Muslin blood on their hands.

As for the Anti-Americanism in the European countries I have just one thing to say.

BIG FUCKING DEAL!

If it weren't for the United States of America you would all be speaking fucking German. Britian fought bravely but was close to being overrun, Russia had a turning point with their victory at Stallingrad but once Britian fell it would have only been a matter of time. Most of the rest of Europe was under German control. We didn't do it alone, we had many allies in the European theater, but you sure as hell wouldn't have done it without us, and we were fighting Japan as well at the time. Tell me just how many of the US bashing Europeans were fighting the Japanese during WWII.

The US has big shoulders and we can take it. We realise that almost all of the hatred for us comes from jealousy. We are a very young country and yet we are currently the one and only super power in the world.

God Bless the US and President Bush


BTW: Bin Laden can go suck camel balls if he ever grows any of his own and comes out of the cave he's hiding in.

Last edited by Scorpian65 (2006-02-10 09:33:34)

Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6921|San Francisco
*sigh* what a bad start to the day...we had such a nice Debate/Serious Talk day just a few days ago...
When a thread like this gets posted, you are undoubtedly going to start a massive flame war that fans up the attitudes of the extreme sides of the issue.  If you do a little research and some critical thinking, post Facts to back up your statement/question rather than just asking such a stupid, vague, and open-ended question, it will make this forum go much smoother.  Hopefully knocking down the badly worded/hardly thought out GO USA! and ANTI-USA! rhetoric...Critical Thinking people!  Try it sometime!

Anyways, comparing Bush to bin Laden...  bin Laden was responsible for the USS Cole bombing which killed 17 crewmen, along with 9/11 which claimed 2,819 American lives.  Bush is responsible for every US Military related death since he activated the forces and sent them off into a retaliatory warpath.  He is the Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces, lest everyone forget.  So yes, Military combatants DO matter when it comes into this consideration.

I hate both equally, if not moreso Bush.  Bush has made extremely rash and uneducated decisions costing the lives of civilian Iraqis and our servicemen, and has degraded the international outlook on America (proven by the high ratio of non-Americans disapproving of our actions).  These rash and short-term goals are consistent with the Conservative side of thinking, again proven with the complete lack of a withdrawal plan.  I won't even get into what he's screwing up here at home, aside from forcing us Taxpayers to fund the rebuilding of Iraq rather than securing our tax dollars to programs and funds here in the US.

The CIA spent $3 billion training bin Laden to take on the Soviets, so it really is our fault that he could muster the knowledge and know-how to carry out terrorist attacks of his scale.  Once again, it's a result of the CIA meddling in affairs for their own interests (bringing down the Soviets during the Cold War, and the residual feelings thereof).  I have no problem thinking that bin Laden and Bush are in cahoots due to their family ties and the events surrounding 9/11, and that Bush was using bin Laden as a stepping stone to rush the PNAC into action.

It's really something you should read, bob_6012, if you are such a Bush supporter: The Bush Administration Plan/PNAC (created and signed by almost all of the Bush cabinet)
I'd be interested in hearing what you think of it, if you are strong enough in your values to read all of it to make an intelligent observation on it.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6944
yes plz back ur answers w/ facts. even though bush is the commander in chief of the armed forces, he just tells the generals where to place troops thats all. bush invaded iraq coz he thought they had wmd's turned out they didnt... he should of said: if a country like iraq has wmd's, they will use them. that would save his ass from flames for a while
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splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|6966|Omaha, Nebraska
Bush is worse... Can't belive the American people let things go all he does is tell BS and still gets away with it...
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6944

splixx wrote:

Bush is worse... Can't belive the American people let things go all he does is tell BS and still gets away with it...
how can bush be worst than a terrorist? hes a president of a country, sure hes kinda retarded, but on the bright side he wont be the next prez of united states
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bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|6883|Lancaster Ohio, USA
In response to Marconius...I really don't care about the PNAC...but if we must...first I believe that America should have a strong leadership role...I do believe that we can do that through the military but also through diplomatic processes...and we need to do this because the world is spiraling outta control and someone's gotta do something about it...however I believe that you were getting at the whole Iraq war thing...and that is very interesting as to how it was played out...but Sadaam was an arrogant man...he should have complied with the inspectors...so what there aren't WMD's...we're there now so we might as well finish the job...and just because Bush's cabinent may have signed this doesn't mean that they influenced him...so is that an intelligent enough debate for you? And yes I am still secure and strong enough in my values...all I can say is God Bless America...

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