BF2S Forums America haters unite!

DocZ wrote:

Most people "hate" america coz its a fad...  their friends say its cool to hate america, yeah, I'm cool, I'm tough!!

About the war on terrorism and Iraq:
The americans are simply following a statement from the US declaration of indepence:
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Meaning: When something is very very very F***ED UP, those who have the ability to do something, have the RESPONSIBILITY to do something...

I bet you never expected a NON-american quoting the Declaration of indepence now, did you?


(I'm just a history buff, and probably the only person outside the US that doesn't join in the "anti-US" fad)

B.Schuss wrote:

no offense, but as far as I know the declaration of independence says so with regard to an US government turned despotic, not some middle east country...

Schutzengel wrote:

May i ask ...

why is it any of your F@#$in' business who the US president is at any particular time ?

You guys go on and on and on about the iraq war like it was some big F@#$ing deal

1) we have found sarin, cyclosarin ( found by the polish military) , Mustard gas ( found by the danes, thank you denmark, remember you have a friend in america if you need it. ) rockets and motors that could deliver them, chemical warheads and artillery shells. and quite a bit more.

2) the yellowcake thing ... iraq had more than 500 tonnes of the stuff, lets just say that greenpeace is pissed that the stuff got out somehow... 

here is a snippet from the greenpeace.au site

[snip]    Greenpeace radiation experts have found abandoned uranium 'yellowcake' and radioactive sources scattered across the community. Much of the material was looted from the facility by villagers who used it for house building and water and food storage. They did not realise the potential danger. In a week long survey, as well as the 'yellow cake' canister, Greenpeace uncovered:
? radioactivity in a series of houses, including one source measuring 10,000 times above normal;
? another source outside a 900 pupil primary school measuring 3,000 times above normal;
? locals who are still storing radioactive barrels and lids in their houses; and
? consistent and repeated stories of unusual sickness after coming into contact with material from the Tuwaitha plant.
[/snip]

http://www.greenpeace.org.au/media/pres … ws_id=1110

then of course there is UNSCR 687

The F@#$ing UN wrote:

8.   Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction,
removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of:

      (a)  All chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all
related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and
manufacturing facilities;

      (b)  All ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometres and
related major parts, and repair and production facilities;

      9.   Decides, for the implementation of paragraph 8 above, the following:

      (a)  Iraq shall submit to the Secretary-General, within fifteen days of
the adoption of the present resolution, a declaration of the locations, amount
s
and types of all items specified in paragraph 8 and agree to urgent, on-site
inspection as specified below;

      (b)  The Secretary-General, in consultation with the appropriate
Governments and, where appropriate, with the Director-General of the World
Health Organization, within forty-five days of the passage of the present
resolution, shall develop, and submit to the Council for approval, a plan
calling for the completion of the following acts within forty-five days of suc
h
approval:

      (i)  The forming of a Special Commission, which shall carry out immediate
           on-site inspection of Iraq's biological, chemical and missile
           capabilities, based on Iraq's declarations and the designation of an
y
           additional locations by the Special Commission itself;

     (ii)  The yielding by Iraq of possession to the Special Commission for
           destruction, removal or rendering harmless, taking into account the
           requirements of public safety, of all items specified under paragrap
h
           8 (a) above, including items at the additional locations designated
           by the Special Commission under paragraph 9 (b) (i) above and the
           destruction by Iraq, under the supervision of the Special Commission
,
           of all its missile capabilities, including launchers, as specified
           under paragraph 8 (b) above;

    (iii)  The provision by the Special Commission of the assistance and
           cooperation to the Director-General of the International Atomic
           Energy Agency required in paragraphs 12 and 13 below;

      10.  Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally undertake not to use,
develop, construct or acquire any of the items specified in paragraphs 8 and 9
above and requests the Secretary-General, in consultation with the Special
Commission, to develop a plan for the future ongoing monitoring and
verification of Iraq's compliance with this paragraph, to be submitted to the
Security Council for approval within one hundred and twenty days of the passag
e
of this resolution;

      11.  Invites Iraq to reaffirm unconditionally its obligations under the
Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of 1 July 1968;

      12.  Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally agree not to acquire or
develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material or any subsystems o
r
components or any research, development, support or manufacturing facilities
related to the above; to submit to the Secretary-General and the
Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency within fifteen days
of the adoption of the present resolution a declaration of the locations,
amounts, and types of all items specified above; to place all of its
nuclear-weapons-usable materials under the exclusive control, for custody and
removal, of the International Atomic Energy Agency, with the assistance and
cooperation of the Special Commission as provided for in the plan of the
Secretary-General discussed in paragraph 9 (b) above; to accept, in accordance
with the arrangements provided for in paragraph 13 below, urgent on-site
inspection and the destruction, removal or rendering harmless as appropriate o
f
all items specified above; and to accept the plan discussed in paragraph 13
below for the future ongoing monitoring and verification of its compliance wit
h
these undertakings;

      13.  Requests the Director-General of the International Atomic Energy
Agency, through the Secretary-General, with the assistance and cooperation of
the Special Commission as provided for in the plan of the Secretary-General in
paragraph 9 (b) above, to carry out immediate on-site inspection of Iraq's
nuclear capabilities based on Iraq's declarations and the designation of any
additional locations by the Special Commission; to develop a plan for
submission to the Security Council within forty-five days calling for the
destruction, removal, or rendering harmless as appropriate of all items listed
in paragraph 12 above; to carry out the plan within forty-five days following
approval by the Security Council; and to develop a plan, taking into account
the rights and obligations of Iraq under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation o
f
Nuclear Weapons of 1 July 1968, for the future ongoing monitoring and
verification of Iraq's compliance with paragraph 12 above, including an
inventory of all nuclear material in Iraq subject to the Agency's verification
and inspections to confirm that Agency safeguards cover all relevant nuclear
activities in Iraq, to be submitted to the Security Council for approval withi
n
one hundred and twenty days of the passage of the present resolution;

      14.  Takes note that the actions to be taken by Iraq in paragraphs 8, 9,
10, 11, 12 and 13 of the present resolution represent steps towards the goal o
f
establishing in the Middle East a zone free from weapons of mass destruction
and all missiles for their delivery and the objective of a global ban on
chemical weapons;

Iraq had 120 days we gave them 12 years because The UN was giving Hussein a $10,000,0000,000 blow job.

TCS Daily wrote:

Those who try to whitewash Saddams record dont dispute this evidence; they just ignore it. So lets review the evidence, all of it on the public record for months or years:

* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddams hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.

* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddams mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.

* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.

* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.

* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddams men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraqs mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.

* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Janes Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Janes reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaedas No. 2 man.

(Why are all of those meetings significant? The London Observer reports that FBI investigators cite a captured al Qaeda field manual in Afghanistan, which "emphasizes the value of conducting discussions about pending terrorist attacks face to face, rather than by electronic means.")

* As recently as 2001, Iraqs embassy in Pakistan was used as a "liaison" between the Iraqi dictator and al Qaeda, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan -- who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks -- that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre," Londons Independent reports.

* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told Gwynne Roberts of the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Ladens fighters in camps in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddams Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad. At that vast compound run by Iraqi intelligence, Muslim militants trained to hijack planes with knives -- on a full-size Boeing 707. Col. Mohammed recalls his first visit to Salman Pak this way: "We were met by Colonel Jamil Kamil, the camp manager, and Major Ali Hawas. I noticed that a lot of people were queuing for food. (The major) said to me: Youll have nothing to do with these people. They are Osama bin Ladens group and the PKK and Mojahedin-e Khalq."

* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddams son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.

*The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiris bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time and was present at the founding of al Qaeda in 1989.

* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Mr. Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaedas global network.

* In 2001, an al Qaeda member "bragged that the situation in Iraq was good," according to intelligence made public by Mr. Powell.

* That same year, Saudi Arabian border guards arrested two al Qaeda members entering the kingdom from Iraq.

* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, Mr. Powell told the United Nations. His specialty was poisons. Wounded in fighting with U.S. forces, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When Zarqawi recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawis Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, an official of the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawis cell in Iraq, Mr. Powell said. His accomplice escaped to Iraq.

*Zarqawi met with military chief of al Qaeda, Mohammed Ibrahim Makwai (aka Saif al-Adel) in Iran in February 2003, according to intelligence sources cited by the Washington Post.

* Mohammad Atef, the head of al Qaedas military wing until the U.S. killed him in Afghanistan in November 2001, told a senior al Qaeda member now in U.S. custody that the terror network needed labs outside of Afghanistan to manufacture chemical weapons, Mr. Powell said. "Where did they go, where did they look?" said the secretary. "They went to Iraq."

* Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi was sent to Iraq by bin Laden to purchase poison gases several times between 1997 and 2000. He called his relationship with Saddams regime "successful," Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.

* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a Londons Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.

* Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 to undertake jihad," Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekars group was funded by "Saddam Husseins regime in Baghdad."

* After October 2001, hundreds of al Qaeda fighters are believed to have holed up in the Ansar al-Islams strongholds inside northern Iraq.

Some skeptics dismiss the emerging evidence of a longstanding link between Iraq and al Qaeda by contending that Saddam ran a secular dictatorship hated by Islamists like bin Laden.

Schutzengel wrote:

Dude, saddam did not just turn a blind eye to terrorism, he lauded it

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/ … index.html

there is another painting i cant find at the moment ... here it is ...

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=9312

al quaida was training in iraq prior to our entry into iraq...

al-quedas #2 was living in bagdad and was receiveing medical treatment in iraq, for wounds he got fighting us in afghanistan.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/ … t.capture/

There were lots of ties between islamic terrorist groups and iraq.

Snip fom article...

TCS Daily wrote:

Those who try to whitewash Saddams record dont dispute this evidence; they just ignore it. So lets review the evidence, all of it on the public record for months or years:

* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddams hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.

* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddams mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.

* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.

* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.

* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddams men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraqs mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.

* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Janes Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Janes reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaedas No. 2 man.

(Why are all of those meetings significant? The London Observer reports that FBI investigators cite a captured al Qaeda field manual in Afghanistan, which "emphasizes the value of conducting discussions about pending terrorist attacks face to face, rather than by electronic means.")

* As recently as 2001, Iraqs embassy in Pakistan was used as a "liaison" between the Iraqi dictator and al Qaeda, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan -- who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks -- that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre," Londons Independent reports.

* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told Gwynne Roberts of the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Ladens fighters in camps in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddams Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad. At that vast compound run by Iraqi intelligence, Muslim militants trained to hijack planes with knives -- on a full-size Boeing 707. Col. Mohammed recalls his first visit to Salman Pak this way: "We were met by Colonel Jamil Kamil, the camp manager, and Major Ali Hawas. I noticed that a lot of people were queuing for food. (The major) said to me: Youll have nothing to do with these people. They are Osama bin Ladens group and the PKK and Mojahedin-e Khalq."

* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddams son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.

*The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiris bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time and was present at the founding of al Qaeda in 1989.

* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Mr. Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaedas global network.

* In 2001, an al Qaeda member "bragged that the situation in Iraq was good," according to intelligence made public by Mr. Powell.

* That same year, Saudi Arabian border guards arrested two al Qaeda members entering the kingdom from Iraq.

* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, Mr. Powell told the United Nations. His specialty was poisons. Wounded in fighting with U.S. forces, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When Zarqawi recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawis Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, an official of the U.S. Agency for International Development, in Amman, Jordan. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawis cell in Iraq, Mr. Powell said. His accomplice escaped to Iraq.

*Zarqawi met with military chief of al Qaeda, Mohammed Ibrahim Makwai (aka Saif al-Adel) in Iran in February 2003, according to intelligence sources cited by the Washington Post.

* Mohammad Atef, the head of al Qaedas military wing until the U.S. killed him in Afghanistan in November 2001, told a senior al Qaeda member now in U.S. custody that the terror network needed labs outside of Afghanistan to manufacture chemical weapons, Mr. Powell said. "Where did they go, where did they look?" said the secretary. "They went to Iraq."

* Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi was sent to Iraq by bin Laden to purchase poison gases several times between 1997 and 2000. He called his relationship with Saddams regime "successful," Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* Mohamed Mansour Shahab, a smuggler hired by Iraq to transport weapons to bin Laden in Afghanistan, was arrested by anti-Hussein Kurdish forces in May, 2000. He later told his story to American intelligence and a reporter for the New Yorker magazine.

* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a Londons Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" to be established in Baghdad.

* Mullah Melan Krekar, ran a terror group (the Ansar al-Islam) linked to both bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Mr. Krekar admitted to a Kurdish newspaper that he met bin Laden in Afghanistan and other senior al Qaeda officials. His acknowledged meetings with bin Laden go back to 1988. When he organized Ansar al Islam in 2001 to conduct suicide attacks on Americans, "three bin Laden operatives showed up with a gift of $300,000 to undertake jihad," Newsday reported. Mr. Krekar is now in custody in the Netherlands. His group operated in portion of northern Iraq loyal to Saddam Hussein -- and attacked independent Kurdish groups hostile to Saddam. A spokesman for the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told a United Press International correspondent that Mr. Krekars group was funded by "Saddam Husseins regime in Baghdad."

* After October 2001, hundreds of al Qaeda fighters are believed to have holed up in the Ansar al-Islams strongholds inside northern Iraq.

Some skeptics dismiss the emerging evidence of a longstanding link between Iraq and al Qaeda by contending that Saddam ran a secular dictatorship hated by Islamists like bin Laden.

and before you guys go off of the deep end and say that iraq and al-queda hated each other and would never work together answer this...

did bin laden or any of the mujahadeen who became the core of al-queda love the US when we help them turn back the soviets?

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=092503F

Berserk_Vampire wrote:

Its a new day i just had to let out my morning Anti American Bastardization post and if you click on my profile you shall see where i'm from its not rocket science.

Your Profile wrote:

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