| True | 21% | 21% - 25 | ||||
| False | 78% | 78% - 90 | ||||
| Total: 115 | ||||||
People got paid $15-20/hour to pick strawberries, trim hedges, collect aluminum cans? People in factories butchering cattle and mixing industrial chemicals make $15/20/hour? Bullshit. Go try to hire a day laborer for $5 an hour to do construction. He'll laugh in your face (with a Spanish accent if you can imagine). At least around here (SoCal, which is ~100 miles from the border with Mexico). You think middle class people 'lost' their jobs to illegals? Illegal immigrants largely do the jobs that you and I would not do. If people were willing to do what the illegal immigrants do for the amount of money they make, they would fucking do it! And companies would hire them.weamo8 wrote:
I am not sure where you feel that illegal immigration has a small effect on the division between the rich and the poor.
Cheap exploitative labor kills the middle class (often known as the working class) because jobs that they were getting $15-$20 dollars an our for are now being done by illegal immigrants for $5 an hour. Literally millions of "middle class" people have lost their jobs to immigrants. What used to be valued as middle class labor (contruction, manufacturing) is now degrated.
There is a point there. When we tackled slavery, we made it illegal to own slaves. We attacked the root of the problem. You don't blame the slave. You blame the slave master. That's my point. Some of the same companies that are ripping off the American taxpayer through government-sponsored corporate welfare are employing illegal immigrants to further bump up the bottom line.weamo8 wrote:
This is an extreme example, but it might make the concept easier to grasp. Can you see how slave labor widens the gap between the rich and the poor?
Illegal aliens do the same thing (to a lesser extent).
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-09 13:49:42)
Nice opinion. Build a wall.golgoj4 wrote:
Ok. seriously. SHUT THE FUCK UP already.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
I dont think anyone ever said they were beneficial. Im just saying the shit is overblown hype. And it directly contradicts the big highway plan. which Bush's admin supports.Stingray24 wrote:
Yeah, illegals are beneficial. Riiiiiight.
People can't get jobs in LA kitchens because they don't speak the "language of the kitchen". People are losing construction jobs because 3 illegals will work for the price of one legal worker. The schools in areas most heavily populated by illegals are forced to educate children whose parents aren't paying into the system. The children of US citizens have to accept a sub-standard education because teachers must try to teach children who are either illiterate in English or illiterate in both English and their native tongue. And I'm talking about the hard working illegals, I haven't even started on the criminal element. But that benefits the US . . . let's start a thread that the existence of the sun is a hoax, too.
As for the rest of your quote. Yep. They have jobs and work for less. It is a problem. But its not the biggest problem by any means. Especially not in the big picture.
STOP THE INVASION is a big chunk of horsepoo. If it was a big enough problem it would be cut short fast.
Its not horseshit for people like me that have watch how La has changed over the past 20 years.
Its not horseshit when I have to explain to a homeowner (cause im a contractor) that those 'cheap' guys wont do it right and they will be calling me back for repairs. Which is always funny.
Its not horseshit when other contractors cant be bothered with the law and hire the home depot crew. If I have to draw a line to a conclusion on that one, your on your own.
I could go on, but why bother? The point is something needs to be done, and sadly its politicized.
My question is this, why isn't all this energy spent breaking our immigration laws and destroying sectors of our economy spent on spending YOUR own broken system? Just because they wanna play it safe in the US is horseshit (in keeping with the theme), other people in the world are being slaughtered @ the moment have more moral standing to flee to another country than our 'need for migrant workers'. The fucked up part of this whole situation is that on the one hand you have the working class getting shafted, then you have immigrants getting screwed in their country then ours, and corporate America just cashes the checks either way....
I demand bf2s come up with a solution.
Last edited by Mason4Assassin444 (2007-05-09 14:03:23)
Yes, we totally exacerbate the problem. The topic is about whether or not illegal immigrants are a problem. They are. We make it worse, but doesnt mean they arent a problem.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
People got paid $15-20/hour to pick strawberries, trim hedges, collect aluminum cans? People in factories butchering cattle and mixing industrial chemicals make $15/20/hour? Bullshit. Go try to hire a day laborer for $5 an hour to do construction. He'll laugh in your face (with a Spanish accent if you can imagine). At least around here (SoCal, which is ~100 miles from the border with Mexico). You think middle class people 'lost' their jobs to illegals? Illegal immigrants largely do the jobs that you and I would not do. If people were willing to do what the illegal immigrants do for the amount of money they make, they would fucking do it! And companies would hire them.weamo8 wrote:
I am not sure where you feel that illegal immigration has a small effect on the division between the rich and the poor.
Cheap exploitative labor kills the middle class (often known as the working class) because jobs that they were getting $15-$20 dollars an our for are now being done by illegal immigrants for $5 an hour. Literally millions of "middle class" people have lost their jobs to immigrants. What used to be valued as middle class labor (contruction, manufacturing) is now degrated.There is a point there. When we tackled slavery, we made it illegal to own slaves. We attacked the root of the problem. You don't blame the slave. You blame the slave master. That's my point. Some of the same companies that are ripping off the American taxpayer through government-sponsored corporate welfare are employing illegal immigrants to further bump up the bottom line.weamo8 wrote:
This is an extreme example, but it might make the concept easier to grasp. Can you see how slave labor widens the gap between the rich and the poor?
Illegal aliens do the same thing (to a lesser extent).
But let's keep placing the blame on those evil aliens that sneak across our border to take away all our measly fucking jobs that we are too good to do.
LOL. You've opened up another skeleton in the closet. Voter fraud, especially about illegal aliens voting.Pug wrote:
We're at an impasse Mason.
I want to thank you for proving to everyone why it's important to vote.
"Illegals have NOTHING to do with your shit healthcare system"Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
I'll re-address the healthcare fiasco. Immigrants aren't driving up healthcare costs. Bush said himself malpractice suits are driving up healthcare costs. THen he mentioned illegals driving it up, but forgot to mention the cuts he made to medicare medicade continuously every year to add more funding to the defense budget. Illegals have NOTHING to do with your shit healthcare system.
Ok. Since your calling me out you.Pug wrote:
"Illegals have NOTHING to do with your shit healthcare system"Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
I'll re-address the healthcare fiasco. Immigrants aren't driving up healthcare costs. Bush said himself malpractice suits are driving up healthcare costs. THen he mentioned illegals driving it up, but forgot to mention the cuts he made to medicare medicade continuously every year to add more funding to the defense budget. Illegals have NOTHING to do with your shit healthcare system.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=73127
Addressed. Good luck - I PM'd you in case you missed it.
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-10 17:16:02)
Last edited by rawls (2007-05-10 17:15:40)
When a criminal employer hires the illegal knowing he can get away with paying him/her a shit wage, the citizen gets skrewed everytime!!rawls wrote:
Pinches gringos juevones. IF an illegal can get a job how can anybody cry about not finding work?
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-10 17:21:58)
Is it that citizens can't find jobs or wont work for peanuts? Because if I was hurting for cash I'd take whatever job was offered.fadedsteve wrote:
When a criminal employer hires the illegal knowing he can get away with paying him/her a shit wage, the citizen gets skrewed everytime!!rawls wrote:
Pinches gringos juevones. IF an illegal can get a job how can anybody cry about not finding work?
Its not about citizens not wanting to work! Its about criminal owners of businesses selling out our country and our workforce!! Not to mention exploiting uneducated illegal immigrants!!
just to clarify your flawed statement!
Not only do they not want to work for peanuts, they also don't want to do jobs immigrants do.rawls wrote:
Is it that citizens can't find jobs or wont work for peanuts? Because if I was hurting for cash I'd take whatever job was offered.fadedsteve wrote:
When a criminal employer hires the illegal knowing he can get away with paying him/her a shit wage, the citizen gets skrewed everytime!!rawls wrote:
Pinches gringos juevones. IF an illegal can get a job how can anybody cry about not finding work?
Its not about citizens not wanting to work! Its about criminal owners of businesses selling out our country and our workforce!! Not to mention exploiting uneducated illegal immigrants!!
just to clarify your flawed statement!
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-10 17:24:33)
No shit!!!rawls wrote:
Is it that citizens can't find jobs or wont work for peanuts? Because if I was hurting for cash I'd take whatever job was offered.fadedsteve wrote:
When a criminal employer hires the illegal knowing he can get away with paying him/her a shit wage, the citizen gets skrewed everytime!!rawls wrote:
Pinches gringos juevones. IF an illegal can get a job how can anybody cry about not finding work?
Its not about citizens not wanting to work! Its about criminal owners of businesses selling out our country and our workforce!! Not to mention exploiting uneducated illegal immigrants!!
just to clarify your flawed statement!
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-10 17:25:57)
I have a house in Los Angeles and San Diego. I think I'm around more illegal aliens than you are. True, I don' like illegal aliens, but I don't think they are as bad as you describe. Like others have said, they take jobs that legal citizens won't take. For medical care, I have a private HMO, so I don't really have to deal with them in ER. I stay away from City Hospitals not because of illegals, but because of the hoards of "poor" legal people.fadedsteve wrote:
I live in California. . . .
Those who say illegal immigration ISNT a problem, you have no clue, and should STFU!!
Its an absolute epidemic, that is completely and totally out of control. Those who dont live in border states have ZERO clue as to the damage illegal immigration has caused on all fronts of American life!
Last edited by Ilocano (2007-05-10 17:31:37)
Now we are getting into simple supply & demand. Employers demand workers and the workers supply their labor. If employers reduce their wage rate supply of workers decrease, which would be the guy not willing to work for peanuts. If employers paid more supply of workers would increase. So how do you weed out the illegals? Enforce the minimum wage law. So in the end who's fault is it? Business/Government. Not illegals.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Not only do they not want to work for peanuts, they also don't want to do jobs immigrants do.rawls wrote:
Is it that citizens can't find jobs or wont work for peanuts? Because if I was hurting for cash I'd take whatever job was offered.fadedsteve wrote:
When a criminal employer hires the illegal knowing he can get away with paying him/her a shit wage, the citizen gets skrewed everytime!!
Its not about citizens not wanting to work! Its about criminal owners of businesses selling out our country and our workforce!! Not to mention exploiting uneducated illegal immigrants!!
just to clarify your flawed statement!
And its also about criminal owners of businesses employing illegal immigrants.
You could just say, "I fucking hate teenage Mexicans who think they are fucking gangster and all that shit."Monkeyman911 wrote:
Im not a huge racist on everyone, but seriously I fucking hate Mexicans
Their not all bad, but im just fucking sick of all the teenage mexicans who think there fucking gangster and all that shit
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-10 17:33:28)
Why cuz they get all the hot chics, Homey?Monkeyman911 wrote:
Im not a huge racist on everyone, but seriously I fucking hate Mexicans
Their not all bad, but im just fucking sick of all the teenage mexicans who think there fucking gangster and all that shit
You obviously never heard of the Bloods and the Crips...Monkeyman911 wrote:
Im not a huge racist on everyone, but seriously I fucking hate Mexicans
Their not all bad, but im just fucking sick of all the teenage mexicans who think there fucking gangster and all that shit
Have you ever been to Redwood City dude?? Cause its nickname here in the Bay Area is "little Mexico". . . .Ilocano wrote:
I have a house in Los Angeles and San Diego. I think I'm around more illegal aliens than you are. True, I don' like illegal aliens, but I don't think they are as bad as you describe. Like others have said, they take jobs that legal citizens won't take. For medical care, I have a private HMO, so I don't really have to deal with them in ER. I stay away from City Hospitals not because of illegals, but because of the hoards of "poor" legal people.fadedsteve wrote:
I live in California. . . .
Those who say illegal immigration ISNT a problem, you have no clue, and should STFU!!
Its an absolute epidemic, that is completely and totally out of control. Those who dont live in border states have ZERO clue as to the damage illegal immigration has caused on all fronts of American life!
Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-10 17:36:43)
I cannot believe I agree with ken Jennings about ANYTHING, but here we are. Take away the reason most of them come here. Go after employers who hire illegals.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
How could anyone say it has little effect on the country?
It is an issue, without a doubt. The bullshit is the nonexistent enforcement of laws, both business and civil.
People make a bunch of money exploiting cheap illegal labor. Those people then donate some of that money to candidates that talk about putting a 12 foot fence up (as if that is going to stop somebody coming here to get an available job).
Take away the available jobs. Stop people from hiring illegal immigrants.
Plain old capitalism. Illegals are not alone here. Why aren't you blaming GM and Ford for moving factories to Mexico? Why are you buying products made in China? Because they are cheaper. And so goes labor...fadedsteve wrote:
[The issue isnt that they take jobs Americans wont take. The issue is that they take jobs who's wages used to be high, and now they're low due to an overflow of cheap labor!