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Odd question, but are you guys for SURE changing your flag? Be it one of these or a different one?

Or is it just a possibility?

New Zealand is weird

Ty wrote:

That Red Peak flag looks like the flags of the German Empire and France cobbled together.
Happy 1871!

Last edited by globefish23 (2015-09-07 04:30:24)

The winner of the first referendum has been announced:



And I'm okay with it. At this stage I would vote for this over the current flag.

There were only about 20,000 votes separating this one from the red white and blue version. I prefer the one with black and I'd image the vast majority of those who preferred the other one will happily switch allegiances.

Voter turn-out was just under 50% which reinforces my view that most people don't care either way. About 10% were informal with either fools who couldn't work out the voting or, more likely, fools who voided their ballots to try and send a message. Message received gents, there are about 150,000 of you.

Can't say how the deciding referendum will play out. At this stage there are still a lot of people completely opposed to change simply because change is uncomfortable. Fair enough. Others won't like this new flag and that's fair enough to. But I think of the 50% that didn't bother to vote this time a fair chunk will vote in the second referendum. Of those many will no doubt back the status quo but I think there are plenty who'd be drawn to a change too. With the 30-or-so percent that support change and took part in the first referendum I think that's a solid base to work from.

I still don't have a great deal of confidence there will be a change because we are a backwards-looking country that clings to familiarity often at the expense of our own progression. But there's a chance and that's generally the best you can hope for.

While researching a response to this I stumbled across Orc porn.

How is that even a thing?

I think this should be America's flag.



There was never any reason to change it.

With one fell swoop, Dilbert makes it about America.

War Man wrote:

Seriously, the only time a nation changing its flag is ever meaningful is when it is the United States changing their flag. Because that means we have another fucking state added.

True.
Germany should get out their swastika flags again. Or even better, the Imperial one.

NZ should just do what we do with our flag. Just add extra stars as needed.

globefish23 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

At least they kept the same anthem.

Nope.
The official anthem of the German empire was ripped off from "God save the Queen" with different lyrics.
The, back then, unofficial "Deutschlandlied", which is the current German anthem, is a rip-off from Haydn's melody to the poem "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser", a patriotic anthem for the Austrian emperor Francis II, in the same vein of the British "God save the Queen".

I was thinking since WW2, to coincide with your swastika comment.

They could have even been ironic and changed it to Deutschland unter alles but no.

And the result is...

The status quo. Because change is apparently terrifying.

It was a shitty debate that got hijacked by hysterical maniacs and self-declared design experts and some of the most idiotic augments I've ever read. But despite all that the blue ensign only got 56.6%, which at least shuts up the people who were arguing that "no-one wants to change the flag."

So that was a waste of time. The debate continues. Maybe when Liz shuffles off we'll re-visit this again.

I think the thing this whole process revealed is that the majority of people in NZ don't like the current flag. Take away the politics and the new flag would have cantered in, and that's before you consider the people who want change but just didn't want that change or the people who want change but think it should be for a reason - becoming a republic for example. It revealed that on decisions of national identity politics will inevitably get involved making a democratic process a pretty dumb way to go about it. Canada and South Africa had it right. Just change the effing thing at let people get used to it. Pity no modern politician would have the balls to do it.

There's probably going to be some bitterness in the aftermath of this. A bit of an element of "opportunity missed". Those who were for the new flag will find the voice they lost when they were being shouted down as unpatriotic or shills for John Key. Those who were militantly against change will be a little shocked by how close things were. Those who didn't care enough might realise that had they bothered to partake they may have changed the outcome; kind of like when you flip a coin to decide something and know what side you want it to land on. Will be interesting to see where things go. This definitely isn't over. Just might take another ten years.