Pages: 1 2 3 … 6

 

2015-11-11 10:36:46
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun
Answer: 

Because, unlike most other religions, it teaches you to punish people in God's name.  It would be like practicing Christianity based on the Old Testament.  For those who do not know, Jesus Christ died for the sins of people because they were practicing religion based on the Old Testament (pre-Christ).  Christ came and said "You all are doing it wrong, love thy neighbor.  Only GOD can stand in Judgement of people (ie don't Judge people I HIS NAME, don't punish people IN HIS NAME).  Thus why Christianity doesn't practice Sharia Law, or kill/punish sinners while yelling "allah ackbar".  Spare me from posting a few misguided examples of people that twisted the bible into something to justify their blood lust.  It is universally accepted by actual Christians that you don't Judge people for God and that God doesn't want you to hurt people for him (he will do it himself).

Don't believe me, look at how Jesus lived vs Mohammad.  Look at the Vatican vs Mecca. 

Hurting other's "Because God told you to" is a sure sign of having a mental disorder.  Yet, we see whole countries hurting people because they read a book and they are carrying out "God's Will".  This is little different the a Nazi soldier torturing Jews because "Just following orders".  It does not make one excused of his actions, thinking it does is a mental disorder.

Why do people become Muslim, not convert, or leave the religion?  Why do people feel so compelled to defend and justify such a horrible faith?  Why can't a person speak openly and honestly about the religion without being attacked?

Please Discuss amongst yourselves.  I am still not a member and have to wait 16 minutes between posts.
2015-11-11 10:45:46
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
Mecca is supposedly a beautiful city.  Saudi Arabia invest into the city since it is probably the best tourist destination in human history. In a purely financial sense.

I probably know and have read more Islamic stuff than anyone here and am deeply interested in this topic. Thank you for making this thread.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2015-11-11 11:18:27
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun
Mecca is under sharia law, don't bring a bible or try to convert in Mecca if you are Muslim.  Not sure what being a beautiful city had to do with my post on Islamic Theology/Practice.

So, I have never taken the time to study the religion nor do I feel it is needed to see what it is about.  I can watch videos of clerics that are 50 years old and have memorized 1000 year old scrolls of the Qur'an because that is all they have done since they were born.  I can see how Islam is practiced by its most devout followers in the birth place of the religion.  I can read in history about things Mohammad did.

So, how far off do you feel my thinking is?  Are you a practicing Muslim and if not why?
2015-11-11 11:49:42
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
You mentioned Mecca vs the Vatican. I thought you were arguing architecture. In any case, I don't think the Vatican is as wonderful as you think. It is not as if someone can just immigrate there. You can only get citizenship through appointment and no non-Catholic is going to get that. It happens to be in the middle of Rome and relays heavily on tourist dollars so it obviously has a different view towards admission than a desert city in a family owned oil corporation like Saudi Arabia.

I think you are cherry picking Muslims to judge everyone by. There are well put together and safe Muslim countries like Jordan, Turkey, Iran, Morocco, and others. The ones who are basket cases are so because of special circumstances and not their religion.

Further, people like you never acknowledge the Muslims who wake up every day to fight Islamic extremism. The people on the ground fighting ISIS and dying in the trenches are other Muslims. There are more Muslims trying to wipe them out than there are ISIS supporters.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2015-11-11 12:14:40
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun
I did cherry pick Mohammad in my post.  Would the same Muslims fighting isis be willing to kill him today if he was here?

It is my understanding he had people beheaded, enslaved, and was a firm believer in sharia law.  What am I missing here?

Maybe the people fighting isis aren't fighting isis because of what they do, just who they did it to.

Last edited by MajorSpittle (2015-11-12 09:26:15)

2015-11-11 12:24:26
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937

MajorSpittle wrote:

I did cherry pick Mohammad in my post.  Would the same Muslims fighting isis be willing to kill him today if he was here?

It is my understanding he had people beheaded, enslaved, and was a firm believer in sharia law.  What am I missing here?

Maybe the people fighting isis aren't fighting isis because of what the do, just who they did it to.
What you are missing is that slavery is illegal in every Muslim country in the world (and Islamic slavery is different from western slavery), the death penalty is either not used or abolished in many Muslim countries, not every Muslim country practices Sharia, and so fourth. So judging every Muslim or the entire religion based off of a subset of it is ridiculous to do.

What religion are you?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2015-11-11 12:52:30
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun
I believe there is no god.

I am judging Islam by its teachings.  Not all Christians are good people.  But I can look at the world and see the effects of the different religion's teachings.  I don't think the Vatican beheads people in God's name.  If the Vatican did I feel it would be overthrown by Christians in a day.  Muslims seem pretty ok with what goes on in mecca.  Didn't you just point out that Iran is an ok place?  Gays might disagree.

Where Islam is the vast majority, it seems intolerance and violence in God's name is the norm.

Last edited by MajorSpittle (2015-11-12 09:28:10)

2015-11-11 13:03:23
uziq
Member
+493|3669
what an incredibly tedious thread.

i recommend you read on religion and violence with phillips buc. he is a top-rank scholar, trained in the best european comparative traditions and a tenured professor at stanford for many years.

http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/15348.html

tl;dr: religious violence is political, all theologies and faiths will pretty much twist themselves in knots and bend over backwards to 'justify' the means towards a supposedly divine end. there is always something compromised and fallen about violence and doing earthly harm, but then again, sociopolitical power is a more pressing concern than asceticism. islam has a more 'fierce' sounding scripture because it was born pretty much out of the cradle of two already established monotheisms in the abrahamic tradition, and was furthermore taken up by nomadic and war-like peoples. therefore there's a lot more stuff about force and conquest in it. compare this to the old jewish scriptures or the old testament, where tribes are similarly warring all the time, cities are being burned and razed to the ground, and people are being slaughtered wholesale. it's all historical, i.e. totally earthbound, i.e. not religious per se.

also, if you want to understand the basics of islam, consider the scriptures from mecca/medina in the same way you'd think of the christian old testament/new testament. one is full of a vengeful god and an eye-for-an-eye, and the other is basically pacifist and about knowledge of the self and the 'interior' experience of spiritualism.

Last edited by uziq (2015-11-11 13:04:14)

2015-11-12 03:55:15
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6323|eXtreme to the maX

MajorSpittle wrote:

It would be like practicing Christianity based on the Old Testament.
That's what many 'Christians' do, and that's exactly what Judaism is.

Wipe them all out I say.
Fuck Israel
2015-11-12 06:59:02
uziq
Member
+493|3669

MajorSpittle wrote:

I did cherry pick Mohammad in my post.  Would the same Muslims fighting isis be willing to kill him today if he was here?

It is my understanding he had people beheaded, enslaved, and was a firm believer in sharia law.  What am I missing here?.
only the fact that every other civilisation on earth and its rulers did the exact same thing at that time. do you know anything about the history of the Christian religion? holy hell, man! Islam was tolerant and accommodating compared to most other world religions at the time.
2015-11-12 09:20:39
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun

uziq wrote:

MajorSpittle wrote:

I did cherry pick Mohammad in my post.  Would the same Muslims fighting isis be willing to kill him today if he was here?

It is my understanding he had people beheaded, enslaved, and was a firm believer in sharia law.  What am I missing here?.
only the fact that every other civilisation on earth and its rulers did the exact same thing at that time. do you know anything about the history of the Christian religion? holy hell, man! Islam was tolerant and accommodating compared to most other world religions at the time.
What is your point?  Is it that all religions from that era and earlier are more violent than Islam because they were created during a violent time of humanity?  I can't make heads or tails out of your post, it just seems like a meaningless rant in the context of this thread.  A quick overview of what I see, right or wrong.....


Topic=Why is Islam Violent

My Posts
Christians= People who try to be Christ-Like
Muslims= People who try to be Mohammad-Like
Thus why Islam Violent


Your Post
People bad back then compared to Mohammad do you know anything about history

Me= huh? :-/

Last edited by MajorSpittle (2015-11-12 10:20:21)

2015-11-12 09:33:23
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
Protestant Christians don't act very Christ like in the U.S. The churches, and their super groups back a lot of hateful policy and ones that hurt many of the people Christ most cared for. The Catholic church is a mixed bag but they try to be more accommodating as time goes by.

I read an argument once that attacked the notion that Christianity ever moderated in the way people expect Islam to. It wasn't that Christianity changed and got better but secular humanist enlightenment ideas and policy supplanted Christianity in the way government and society's power operated.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2015-11-12 10:16:25
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Protestant Christians don't act very Christ like in the U.S. The churches, and their super groups back a lot of hateful policy and ones that hurt many of the people Christ most cared for. The Catholic church is a mixed bag but they try to be more accommodating as time goes by.

I read an argument once that attacked the notion that Christianity ever moderated in the way people expect Islam to. It wasn't that Christianity changed and got better but secular humanist enlightenment ideas and policy supplanted Christianity in the way government and society's power operated.
You should start your own thread about that because that is not the topic.  The only reason Christianity was EVER brought up in this thread was for illustration.  It could just as well be Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism..........

All I get from the posts you make is that you don't disagree with my point or thought process about Islam, so you point negatives about other religions.  I am not going to argue with you about other religions in this thread because it is not about other religions.

Islam is currently a Violent mess of a religion.  It causes huge amounts of suffering all around the world in the name of God.  Some people say it is peaceful and defend it at every turn while putting it at the same level as religions that don't kill/torture/persecute in God's name.

As an educated Muslim you have nothing to say about this other than the same old "It is just a few bad apples"?  Why do you belong to this religion?  I just pointed out that the founder was a Violent Horrible Person that would fit right in with ISIS if alive today.  Your answer is that Christians don't act very Christ-Like?  Do you see how insane that is?  Is it your argument that Yes Mohammad is evil but just like Christians don't act like Christ I won't be evil like Mohammad and kill people or follow the teaching and laws of Islam?

Please explain what YOUR view is on the topic "Why is Islam a Violent mess of a religion".   OR
Please explain where you think I am wrong in my thinking on the subject.  BUT
Please don't derail the thread and change the topic.

Last edited by MajorSpittle (2015-11-12 10:19:08)

2015-11-12 10:32:11
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6926|England. Stoke
Who is the Muslim.
And who are you?
2015-11-12 11:36:08
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2015-11-13 03:45:38
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6323|eXtreme to the maX

MajorSpittle wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Protestant Christians don't act very Christ like in the U.S. The churches, and their super groups back a lot of hateful policy and ones that hurt many of the people Christ most cared for. The Catholic church is a mixed bag but they try to be more accommodating as time goes by.

I read an argument once that attacked the notion that Christianity ever moderated in the way people expect Islam to. It wasn't that Christianity changed and got better but secular humanist enlightenment ideas and policy supplanted Christianity in the way government and society's power operated.
You should start your own thread about that because that is not the topic.  The only reason Christianity was EVER brought up in this thread was for illustration.  It could just as well be Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism..........

All I get from the posts you make is that you don't disagree with my point or thought process about Islam, so you point negatives about other religions.  I am not going to argue with you about other religions in this thread because it is not about other religions.

Islam is currently a Violent mess of a religion.  It causes huge amounts of suffering all around the world in the name of God.  Some people say it is peaceful and defend it at every turn while putting it at the same level as religions that don't kill/torture/persecute in God's name.

As an educated Muslim you have nothing to say about this other than the same old "It is just a few bad apples"?  Why do you belong to this religion?  I just pointed out that the founder was a Violent Horrible Person that would fit right in with ISIS if alive today.  Your answer is that Christians don't act very Christ-Like?  Do you see how insane that is?  Is it your argument that Yes Mohammad is evil but just like Christians don't act like Christ I won't be evil like Mohammad and kill people or follow the teaching and laws of Islam?

Please explain what YOUR view is on the topic "Why is Islam a Violent mess of a religion".   OR
Please explain where you think I am wrong in my thinking on the subject.  BUT
Please don't derail the thread and change the topic.
It would have been  better if the topic had been "All religious people are crazy and should be shot", then it would not have been derailed in this way.
Fuck Israel
2015-11-14 01:26:38
uziq
Member
+493|3669

MajorSpittle wrote:

uziq wrote:

MajorSpittle wrote:

I did cherry pick Mohammad in my post.  Would the same Muslims fighting isis be willing to kill him today if he was here?

It is my understanding he had people beheaded, enslaved, and was a firm believer in sharia law.  What am I missing here?.
only the fact that every other civilisation on earth and its rulers did the exact same thing at that time. do you know anything about the history of the Christian religion? holy hell, man! Islam was tolerant and accommodating compared to most other world religions at the time.
What is your point?  Is it that all religions from that era and earlier are more violent than Islam because they were created during a violent time of humanity?  I can't make heads or tails out of your post, it just seems like a meaningless rant in the context of this thread.  A quick overview of what I see, right or wrong...


Topic=Why is Islam Violent

My Posts
Christians= People who try to be Christ-Like
Muslims= People who try to be Mohammad-Like
Thus why Islam Violent


Your Post
People bad back then compared to Mohammad do you know anything about history

Me= huh? :-/
you are a moron if you think those two religions boil down to 'try your best to impersonate the prophet'. jesus's and mohammed's behaviours were reactions to two very different situations. jesus was a crazy jew under a pantheistic roman empire – there were loads of these weird, esoteric jewish cults springing up, as the sandbaggers were going stir crazy under a roman administration that refused (at first) to play along with the middle-eastern death cult thing. the jews were almost entirely powerless against rome. thus jesus started to gain a following with his doctrine of non-violence and passive resistance. this whole pose and its underlying hypocrisy has been analysed so well by nietzsche. he called it a 'slave morality'. jesus turned the chosen person creed of his jewish people – who, if they were chosen, were weirdly losing pretty badly to world history – and made it into a 'we will triumph in death' / 'this current world ain't shit' type outlook. violence wasn't on the menu because it had absolutely no political use for early christians. of course, that soon fucking changed as soon as christianity gained even the teeniest bit of worldly power. then it was violence, holy war, crusade, inquisition, civil war, continental conflagration, new world pillaging, etc... none of which is essential to the religion, as i have said. religions will bend over backwards to shunt their creeds in place with material, historical concerns.

islam on the other hand arose as a way of unifying a bunch of bickering camel traders in the middle-east. there was everything to take, rewards to be reaped. mohammed didn't profess non-violence and pacifism because it wasn't a useful political philosophy in his circumstances.

Last edited by uziq (2015-11-14 01:30:55)

2015-11-14 04:26:33
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6989|PNW

You must not have read the thread where he said BF2S was dead to him or something like that and stomped away. Will he lurk? Who knows.
2015-11-14 04:51:47
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
Did I just hear someone mention Nietzsche?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2015-11-14 05:33:50
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun

uziq wrote:

MajorSpittle wrote:

uziq wrote:


only the fact that every other civilisation on earth and its rulers did the exact same thing at that time. do you know anything about the history of the Christian religion? holy hell, man! Islam was tolerant and accommodating compared to most other world religions at the time.
What is your point?  Is it that all religions from that era and earlier are more violent than Islam because they were created during a violent time of humanity?  I can't make heads or tails out of your post, it just seems like a meaningless rant in the context of this thread.  A quick overview of what I see, right or wrong...


Topic=Why is Islam Violent

My Posts
Christians= People who try to be Christ-Like
Muslims= People who try to be Mohammad-Like
Thus why Islam Violent


Your Post
People bad back then compared to Mohammad do you know anything about history

Me= huh? :-/
you are a moron if you think those two religions boil down to 'try your best to impersonate the prophet'. jesus's and mohammed's behaviours were reactions to two very different situations. jesus was a crazy jew under a pantheistic roman empire – there were loads of these weird, esoteric jewish cults springing up, as the sandbaggers were going stir crazy under a roman administration that refused (at first) to play along with the middle-eastern death cult thing. the jews were almost entirely powerless against rome. thus jesus started to gain a following with his doctrine of non-violence and passive resistance. this whole pose and its underlying hypocrisy has been analysed so well by nietzsche. he called it a 'slave morality'. jesus turned the chosen person creed of his jewish people – who, if they were chosen, were weirdly losing pretty badly to world history – and made it into a 'we will triumph in death' / 'this current world ain't shit' type outlook. violence wasn't on the menu because it had absolutely no political use for early christians. of course, that soon fucking changed as soon as christianity gained even the teeniest bit of worldly power. then it was violence, holy war, crusade, inquisition, civil war, continental conflagration, new world pillaging, etc... none of which is essential to the religion, as i have said. religions will bend over backwards to shunt their creeds in place with material, historical concerns.

islam on the other hand arose as a way of unifying a bunch of bickering camel traders in the middle-east. there was everything to take, rewards to be reaped. mohammed didn't profess non-violence and pacifism because it wasn't a useful political philosophy in his circumstances.
wow, called me a moron and goes on to help prove my point?

And yes, If I create a rule book on how to live life, that is based on how I lived life, then the people who follow the instructions in that book would be emulating my behavior.  ie Christ-Like, Mohammad-Like.

All I get from your post is;  A Liberal with knowledge is like a monkey with a calculator.
2015-11-14 06:22:16
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6989|PNW

MajorSpittle wrote:

A Liberal with knowledge is like a monkey with a calculator.
/jackie chan wtf meme
2015-11-14 06:53:43
uziq
Member
+493|3669

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Did I just hear someone mention Nietzsche?
yes, i have written graduate papers on nietzsche. are you going to call me out with your political science major? lol
2015-11-14 06:54:12
uziq
Member
+493|3669

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

A Liberal with knowledge is like a monkey with a calculator.
/jackie chan wtf meme
good job i am not a liberal in any way.
2015-11-14 07:15:01
MajorSpittle
Member
+7|3308|Oregun

uziq wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

A Liberal with knowledge is like a monkey with a calculator.
/jackie chan wtf meme
good job i am not a liberal in any way.
Well, your post lacked both logic and reason so I just assumed........
2015-11-14 07:51:34
uziq
Member
+493|3669
i would say considering the historical perspective and the history of religion is 'reason'. concluding that islam is a "violent mess" and somehow exceptional is precisely not using reason, i.e. not considering the evidence presented by history or the theology and scripture itself.

 

Pages: 1 2 3 … 6

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard