SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
When Congress designed temporary work visa programs, the idea was to bring in foreigners with specialized, hard-to-find skills who would help American companies grow, creating jobs to expand the economy. Now, though, some companies are bringing in workers on those visas to help move jobs out of the country.

For four weeks this spring, a young woman from India on a temporary visa sat elbow to elbow with an American accountant in a snug cubicle at the headquarters of Toys “R” Us here. The woman, an employee of a giant outsourcing company in India hired by Toys “R” Us, studied and recorded the accountant’s every keystroke, taking screen shots of her computer and detailed notes on how she issued payments for toys sold in the company’s megastores.

“She just pulled up a chair in front of my computer,” said the accountant, 49, who had worked for the company for more than 15 years. “She shadowed me everywhere, even to the ladies room."

By late June, eight workers from the outsourcing company, Tata Consultancy Services, or TCS, had produced intricate manuals for the jobs of 67 people, mainly in accounting. They then returned to India to train TCS workers to take over and perform those jobs there. The Toys “R” Us employees in New Jersey, many of whom had been at the company more than a decade, were laid off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/to … rseas.html

This makes me so angry I could vote for Donald Trumpet.

How does everyone feel about the H1B program? I do not like it. Bringing in foreign workers to outsource jobs or to replace domestic workers is wrong. It just goes to show you how crazed this free trade, free markets thing has gotten. Not only are we forced to compete with foreigners, they are invited here by our leaders to take our jobs.

Mass immigration, worker visas, student visas and more are all part of a process of gentrification at a national level. Just like poor people being replaced by wealthy outsiders in urban areas to raise property value for developers, our leaders are bringing in foreigners to drive down our wages so that we can increase our GDP numbers and inflate the stock market.

Then you have multiculturalism and the destruction of the community. The American nation, the community of individuals who consider themselves American, is going to be ruined by this.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2015-10-07 15:27:40)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6989|PNW

Do you really think electing Trump would put a stop to it? He doesn't seem to have any private objections to foreign labor, but that won't stop him from tapping into public anger over unemployment for political gain. This is just the way the corporate world operates. They chew you up and spit you out if it means the slightest convenience.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
That was mostly a joke. Of course I don't trust Trump or his political party at all. If Jeb Bush or Hilary Clinton become president, the solution to the nation's problems will clearly be out of the realm of traditional politics.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6989|PNW

Ah.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

When Congress designed temporary work visa programs, the idea was to bring in foreigners with specialized, hard-to-find skills who would help American companies grow, creating jobs to expand the economy. Now, though, some companies are bringing in workers on those visas to help move jobs out of the country.

For four weeks this spring, a young woman from India on a temporary visa sat elbow to elbow with an American accountant in a snug cubicle at the headquarters of Toys “R” Us here. The woman, an employee of a giant outsourcing company in India hired by Toys “R” Us, studied and recorded the accountant’s every keystroke, taking screen shots of her computer and detailed notes on how she issued payments for toys sold in the company’s megastores.

“She just pulled up a chair in front of my computer,” said the accountant, 49, who had worked for the company for more than 15 years. “She shadowed me everywhere, even to the ladies room."

By late June, eight workers from the outsourcing company, Tata Consultancy Services, or TCS, had produced intricate manuals for the jobs of 67 people, mainly in accounting. They then returned to India to train TCS workers to take over and perform those jobs there. The Toys “R” Us employees in New Jersey, many of whom had been at the company more than a decade, were laid off.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/to … rseas.html

This makes me so angry I could vote for Donald Trumpet.

How does everyone feel about the H1B program? I do not like it. Bringing in foreign workers to outsource jobs or to replace domestic workers is wrong. It just goes to show you how crazed this free trade, free markets thing has gotten. Not only are we forced to compete with foreigners, they are invited here by our leaders to take our jobs.

Mass immigration, worker visas, student visas and more are all part of a process of gentrification at a national level. Just like poor people being replaced by wealthy outsiders in urban areas to raise property value for developers, our leaders are bringing in foreigners to drive down our wages so that we can increase our GDP numbers and inflate the stock market.

Then you have multiculturalism and the destruction of the community. The American nation, the community of individuals who consider themselves American, is going to be ruined by this.
Your parents are immigrants, are they not?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
No?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England
Why should employers be stuck with the limited local pool of employees? Because those people happen to have been born or live there? So what? If you're arguing that people should profit from their birth you might as well argue for a landed aristocracy.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
I'm saying the government should restrict the importation of workers and outsourcing of jobs. The government's only responsibility is to its citizens. Not to corporations or the concept of free trade.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6954|Oxferd Ohire
They should just skip that step and go to robots.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I'm saying the government should restrict the importation of workers and outsourcing of jobs. The government's only responsibility is to its citizens. Not to corporations or the concept of free trade.
How could you possibly force companies to keep jobs here?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6954|Oxferd Ohire
with guns
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6933
fuck it just subcontract everything out. no more real employees!
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
Tariffs, fines, nationalization, etc.

and

RTHKI wrote:

with guns

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2015-10-07 16:34:14)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England
I mean shit, if people like Macbeth ran the world we'd still have gas lamp lighters on the city payroll. Jobs come and go, the world evolves. When people lose their jobs it's sad, but it's rarely permanent.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6933

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Tariffs, fines, nationalization, etc.

and

RTHKI wrote:

with guns
its funny the entire point of the h1b visa is for skilled labour shortages in the USA. top kek employers cant find skilled employees and get shafted.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937

Cybargs wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Tariffs, fines, nationalization, etc.

and

RTHKI wrote:

with guns
its funny the entire point of the h1b visa is for skilled labour shortages in the USA. top kek employers cant find skilled employees and get shafted.
"The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage"
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar … ge/284359/

Fairly reliable source?

A compelling body of research is now available, from many leading academic researchers and from respected research organizations such as the National Bureau of Economic Research, the RAND Corporation, and the Urban Institute. No one has been able to find any evidence indicating current widespread labor market shortages or hiring difficulties in science and engineering occupations that require bachelors degrees or higher, although some are forecasting high growth in occupations that require post-high school training but not a bachelors degree. All have concluded that U.S. higher education produces far more science and engineering graduates annually than there are S&E job openings—the only disagreement is whether it is 100 percent or 200 percent more. Were there to be a genuine shortage at present, there would be evidence of employers raising wage offers to attract the scientists and engineers they want. But the evidence points in the other direction: Most studies report that real wages in many—but not all—science and engineering occupations have been flat or slow-growing, and unemployment as high or higher than in many comparably-skilled occupations.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2015-10-07 16:41:44)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England
It costs a lot of money for the companies. Probably half my company is here on a visa. I'm sure my boss would love to hire more Americans, but engineers have near zero unemployment.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England
But yeah, I'm sure tariffs and fines would've kept all those Blockbuster employees employed
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6933
visas are super super expensive for employers. especially when you have 0 guarantee the employee can stay in the country permanently.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6849|949

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I'm saying the government should restrict the importation of workers and outsourcing of jobs. The government's only responsibility is to its citizens. Not to corporations or the concept of free trade.
How could you possibly force companies to keep jobs here?
You can't really without giving them some type of incentive.  However, based on the article Toy's R Us seems to be in violation of the H1B program.  Maybe the government should either enforce the rule or rewrite the visa program rules.

H1Bs are a good thing in my opinion when used the right way.  I have seen people at my company start via H1B visas and use it as a segue to US citizenship.  It's a win/win for both sides - the company gets labor at a cheaper price (as the person goes through the H1B -> greencard -> PR/Citizenship route) and the person gets an opportunity to live the American Dream. 

It's the obvious exploitation of the program by companies like TATA (who also use H1B visas in a more traditional way) and Toys R Us that are making this an issue.

Cybargs wrote:

visas are super super expensive for employers. especially when you have 0 guarantee the employee can stay in the country permanently.
H1B visas cost about $5K for the employer.  That's not even remotely super expensive for an employer that saves probably $10K-$50K/year getting overseas talent.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937

Jay wrote:

But yeah, I'm sure tariffs and fines would've kept all those Blockbuster employees employed
Yeah, foreign competition killed blockbuster...

WTF does blockbuster have to do with anything?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers:
"The STEM Crisis Is a Myth

Forget the dire predictions of a looming shortfall of scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians"
Clearly, powerful forces must be at work to perpetuate the cycle. One is obvious: the bottom line. Companies would rather not pay STEM professionals high salaries with lavish benefits, offer them training on the job, or guarantee them decades of stable employment. So having an oversupply of workers, whether domestically educated or imported, is to their benefit. It gives employers a larger pool from which they can pick the “best and the brightest,” and it helps keep wages in check. No less an authority than Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, said as much when in 2007 he advocated boosting the number of skilled immigrants entering the United States so as to “suppress” the wages of their U.S. counterparts, which he considered too high.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/educat … -is-a-myth

Jay's professional association are clearly socialist trolls.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

But yeah, I'm sure tariffs and fines would've kept all those Blockbuster employees employed
Yeah, foreign competition killed blockbuster...

WTF does blockbuster have to do with anything?
You can't protect jobs. If you nationalize you just fuck over everyone else who now has to support them. If you tariff you enrich owners and fuck over consumers. If you fine you just expedite outsourcing. This is econ 101 stuff.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3937
Blockbuster just isn't relevant to the conversation though because American technology killed Blockbuster not foreign competition. Do you have a better example?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5575|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers:
"The STEM Crisis Is a Myth

Forget the dire predictions of a looming shortfall of scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians"
Clearly, powerful forces must be at work to perpetuate the cycle. One is obvious: the bottom line. Companies would rather not pay STEM professionals high salaries with lavish benefits, offer them training on the job, or guarantee them decades of stable employment. So having an oversupply of workers, whether domestically educated or imported, is to their benefit. It gives employers a larger pool from which they can pick the “best and the brightest,” and it helps keep wages in check. No less an authority than Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, said as much when in 2007 he advocated boosting the number of skilled immigrants entering the United States so as to “suppress” the wages of their U.S. counterparts, which he considered too high.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/educat … -is-a-myth

Jay's professional association are clearly socialist trolls.
Revenue is limited by contracts. You can either have a few high paid engineers supported by an army of cheap draftsmen, or you have a bunch of relatively lower paid engineers that handle all tasks from drafting though construction management. Both types abound here in NYC, but the latter tend to put out a better product and are more responsive.

Firm owners complain incessantly about the percentage allocated to engineering firms, hence that article. But hey, thanks for the lesson on how my industry works.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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